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Condor 2 from Blake at Flyboy Accessories

SeanB

Well Known Member
I've purchased several items for my RV7 from Flyboy Accessories. I had a Bell fork and light weight tailwheel installed on the plane. Since I am still building, it's only been used to roll around the hangar. I was on the Flyboy's site recently and noticed the Condor2 Fork and pneumatic tire. It appears to be a larger version of the Bell fork that allows the 8" tire enough room. Several conversations with Blake had me placing an order.

I just received the Condor 2 fork, hub, and tire. My first impression is of a quality part. The split hub is machined beautifully! Standard process to get everything put together. One thing I noticed, the valve stem is really tucked inward and out of the way to avoid the fork. This could be a real challenge to get access to inflate. No worries though. Blake has included a stem extension that takes care of that challenge just fine. Other benefits are reports of decreased "road noise" when taxiing. The solid wheels can really transfer the noise of any surface imperfections of asphalt and other materials into the aluminum tailcone. The pneumatic tire should mute some of this. This tire is 2" lager in diameter compared to my prior setup. So...there is an inch of height increase. What happens if I get a flat? I can still use my lightweight wheel as a backup if/when, as it is interchangeable with this fork. This ais a really nice kit that I'm glad to own.

As always, Blake took excellent care of me. Top notch customer service and response to any question or request throughout.

Pics:
https://eaabuilderslog.org/?blprojentry&proj=7Y3Wl8i8N&e=7YVdUWg7b&listcat=
 
I installed the Condor 2 last spring on my -7 and I absolutely love it. Really smooths out the ground ride on pavement and soft fields, combined with the Rocket Link steering arm it is a great setup. I carry an extra tube with me just in case, the tailwheel seems to like around 50 psi. My hanger partner took it once around the patch and promptly ordered one for his -8.
 
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I just installed this setup on my -8 along with the roller bearing tailwheel yoke from J.D. Air. The airplane steers like it has power steering (almost too good) and the pneumatic tire really quiets everything down and smooths out taxiing. I?m also installed this exact combination on my -7 build. Blake is great to work with and I?ll continue to be a loyal customer.
 
I installed the Condor2 fork, hub, and pneumatic tire onto my existing JDAir bearing tailwheel yoke several days ago on my RV-8. I am using chains. Today, on the fourth-ever landing with it, it shimmied for several seconds during the rollout. The landing was smooth and the tailwheel gently touched the runway. And it was lightly loaded during the rollout (i.e., neutral stick). On many gear setups, that is a pro-shimmy combination if the setup is prone to shimmy. On the next landing of the day, with more load on the TW, it did not. After I got to the hangar I checked the tire pressure and it was down to 45 psi, from the recommended 50 psi. I raised it back to 50 psi.

I plan to do some experimentation with TW load on the rollout. If it shimmies again, I'll play with tire pressure, and I may put the steering arm back on (adds a little damping). The JDAir bearing yoke, with its zero yawing friction, may also play a part. I really do not want to give up the JDAir bearing yoke, with its smooth and easy steering. The Condor pneumatic tire also has a small contact patch which doesn't help to prevent shimmy.

Or ... the event may have been a fluke. I'm thinking about calling Blake on Monday and see if he has any thoughts.

I like the pneumatic tire so far, it's much smoother, quieter, and rolls over larger cracks in the pavement more gracefully than the smaller, solid tire. But if it is prone to shimmy, it's history.

I'm throwing this out there to see if anyone else has encountered shimmy with the Condor2 assembly. And hopefully, as more units get installed and if there are shimmy events, they'll get reported.

In the 2500+ hours I've flown RV-8s I don't recall ever having a TW shimmy event. And that included many hours on the Van's TW assembly, a modified Van's TW assembly, the Bell TW fork, and the full-up JDAir bearing TW assembly. These were with the standard Van's TW tire and the lightweight TW tire. And they included a steering arm on some of them and chains on most of them. And I don't recall hearing of anyone else having one either.

I have a fair amount of TW time in various airplanes and have experienced TW shimmy on several occasions with other airplanes, and I'm familiar with the parameters that affect shimmy and how severe it can be.

No shimmy here. I guess all of these planes are unique but in my case, it made my landings downright boring. For some reason, it reduced the tendency I had with the solid wheel to want to head this way then that (typical tail dragger). Now I touchdown and I don't have to dance on the rudder pedals as much as I did in the past...no idea why. I'm very happy with the condor tail wheel. I do watch the air pressure carefully!
 
I purchased the complete conversion, condor 2 yoke, tire, wheel and added a Rocket link.
 
Has anyone tried the 6in pneumatic tire from Matco mfg? I'm quite sure it will fit the standard Doug Bell fork. I've had an email conversation with George at Matco and he seemed to think that it would be worth a try provided the tire pressure is maintained around 50psi. He said the results on RV's were more mixed at lower PSIs. The issue is the low aspect ratio of the tire OD to bead seat diameter caused problems. Interested in any PIREPs.

http://www.matcomfg.com/TIRETUBE6x24PRTUBE90DegSTEM-idv-3097-38.html

Here is the same assembles complete.
http://www.matcomfg.com/TAILWHEEL6PNEUMATIC-idv-3373-13.html
 
No shimmy problems with the Condor2/Rocket Link setup. Never any shimmy problems on any RV I have flown. I have had problems on other taildraggers, and almost always due to loose chains/springs. Adjusting chain tension so there is NO slack and positive spring tension should resolve the shimmy issue as well as provide more precise steering.
 
Not implying that anyone has this problem, but watch out for bent rod springs. If the tailwheel pivot shaft is leaning forward too much, at some point shimmy becomes inevitable.

Our Stinson was loads of fun when the tailspring became bent (I blame my partner, but it was just normal wear and tear.) After fixing the spring, it was a pussycat again with no more shimmy.

Interesting too... what one person calls a "yoke" others, like us, call a "mounting socket". Either name should work as long as we all know what part we're talking about!
 
Mark,

Which TW yoke do you have (i.e, original Van's or the JDAir bearing yoke)? And do you have chains or a steering arm?


Rob (74-07),

Which TW yoke do you have?

Thx.

I bought a new fork at the same time with the wheel...I have springs
 
Condor 2 tailwheel

I had this setup sitting in a box at the hangar for months and finally got around to installing it on my RV 8 and testing it. It was a straight forward swap with the stock tailwheel. Taxi testing showed no change in the steering capabilities and it provided a much smoother ride over bumps and cracks compared to the solid rubber tailwheel. I?m running 45-50 psi. Directional control during take-off and landing was no different. It might be my imagination but I think during landing when the tailwheel came down there was a slightly ?softer? feel...I always wheel land and hold the tail up as long as possible. It is a quality piece as I?ve come to expect from Flyboys. 5 stars.
 
2 of us in the UK have just fitted the same set up and now both having big shimmy issues.

Contacted Blake - fab service as usual - he sent lots of info.

Ours is a 10 year old 500 hour spring/knuckle on a Rocket Lynx steering set up. I have ordered a new spring, knuckle and steering arm, but it wont arrive for a month as it is sea freight.

Going back to the old tailwheel and will report back when the new one is installed. We have our tyre at 50 psi and I have put tyre jizz into it to help the loss of pressure.
 
I think the problem is a compound one.

The yoke is longer (taller), the tyre is larger so the knuckle angle changes - better viz etc, but takes the whole assembly into shimmy territory. Add in an old stinger that has sagged a bit and away we go.

Has anyone bent a stinger, either by annealing, bending and re tempering, or just by cold bending ?

Is the 14 stinger a different part ?

Scott - if you pick up on this, your input would be welcome please.
 
Spring re-shaping

Heat the spring until it is just starting to turn red where you want the bend, then bend. You will not remove the temper. Piece ?o cake!
 
Addressing shimmy issues

Howdy folks... writing up a document to address the topic of tailwheel shimmy has been on my do-list for some time. Thanks for giving me the extra incentive to get it knocked out! I've created a post on our blog, which aggregates information from several other posts on the topic and applies it directly to RVs.

Link to the full article here: http://flyboyblog.com/2020/06/26/addressing-tailwheel-shimmy-in-rvs/

The short synopsis goes like this:
- Tailwheel geometry is the biggest contributing factor to shimmy
- Fixing the tailwheel geometry can be fairly easy and low cost.
- Another VAF user has discussed a method for putting a bend in the tail spring to improve the steering angle geometry, with good results (link here)


This is the geometry we're shooting for.

positive-angle-1024x767.jpg
 
Has anyone tried the 6in pneumatic tire from Matco mfg?
I'm using the Condor pneumatic tailwheel and fork from Flyboy with Lynx tailwheel cables/springs. Can't speak to the difference between Matco and Condor, but I love the steering authority on the ground and lack of noise when taxiing that comes with a pneumatic tailwheel. Worth a few extra ounces and bucks IMHO.

Dave
 
Howdy folks... writing up a document to address the topic of tailwheel shimmy has been on my do-list for some time. Thanks for giving me the extra incentive to get it knocked out! I've created a post on our blog, which aggregates information from several other posts on the topic and applies it directly to RVs.

Link to the full article here: http://flyboyblog.com/2020/06/26/addressing-tailwheel-shimmy-in-rvs/

The short synopsis goes like this:
- Tailwheel geometry is the biggest contributing factor to shimmy
- Fixing the tailwheel geometry can be fairly easy and low cost.
- Another VAF user has discussed a method for putting a bend in the tail spring to improve the steering angle geometry, with good results (link here)


This is the geometry we're shooting for.

positive-angle-1024x767.jpg

After reading through the information here, I suspect I know the answer. That being said, how does my geometry look?

F34FFB23-D521-4097-A4B8-8176A20898D0.jpg

EB1AEB6C-CA74-4A42-9F2C-E26B3D7CB15D.jpg
 
Pirep with flat tire

I did get a flat tire with the Condor pneumatic tailwheel. When I landed, I could hear a faint and different sound coming from the back, but it was so faint that it didn’t concern me. The roll out and taxi were normal. It wasn’t until I was pulling the airplane back into the hangar that I noticed the tire had lost its air. The tire itself was not flattened at all, and not that I would recommend taking off with it, I’m certain it would work in an emergency.
I patched the the tube and life is good again. I also ordered another tire and tube, as my tire is starting to wear after 200 hours. I’d like to compliment Flyboy Accessories for their prompt customer service too.
 
The "Condor 2" pneumatic wheel/tire resulted in massive shimmy on my new-to-me RV-7. I'll have to take some better pics next time I'm at the hangar to try to asses the geometry.

Upon purchase, the plane went in for an immediate Condition Inspection. The shop installed a new Flyboy Accessories Condor 2 fork and pneumatic tire, a Flyboy Accessories tow-bar bolt, a new JD Air bearing yoke and a JD Air steering link.

The result was a indescribably massive shimmy on takeoff and landing. Very distracting. I thought the tire had gone flat. It was so bad, it bent the brand new control arm. The tire looks well worn after one takeoff and landing. Folks on the ground commented on the noise they heard on roll-out.

The shop removed the pneumatic tire assembly and reinstalled the "lightweight" tire that had been removed, keeping the Condor fork, tow-bar bolt, JD Air bearing yoke and JD Air steering. No more shimmy.

TW (1).jpg TW (2).jpg

TW (3).jpg TW (4).jpg
 
... installed a new Flyboy Accessories Condor 2 fork and pneumatic tire, a Flyboy Accessories tow-bar bolt, a new JD Air bearing yoke and a JD Air steering link.

Mixing parts isn't always the best idea. The JD Air bearing yoke has very low swiveling resistance. Flyboy's yoke uses a bushing, which gives a bit of resistance. This may, or may not, be the cause of the shimmy, as there can be other causes.

Also, the Condor 2 fork isn't designed for those smaller tires, but if it's working, rock on.

YMMV.
 
I had/have the exact same equipment setup as you on my -8 and I experienced the same shimmy problem. When I went back to the lightweight tailwheel, the shimmy problem went away. I think the problem is the angle of the stinger which in turn affects the angle of the pivot yoke and the larger wheel exacerbates the problem. I also left the condor fork on after changing back to the lightweight wheel and everything is working well.
 
I had/have the exact same equipment setup as you on my -8 and I experienced the same shimmy problem. When I went back to the lightweight tailwheel, the shimmy problem went away. I think the problem is the angle of the stinger which in turn affects the angle of the pivot yoke and the larger wheel exacerbates the problem. I also left the condor fork on after changing back to the lightweight wheel and everything is working well.

Exact same issue here and fix. I also left the condor fork on after changing to the lightweight wheel and everything is working well.

My issue was a very slight shimmy while taxing which lead to premature wear on the tire. I got 40 - 50 hrs on a tire.
 
Exact same issue here and fix. I also left the condor fork on after changing to the lightweight wheel and everything is working well.

My issue was a very slight shimmy while taxing which lead to premature wear on the tire. I got 40 - 50 hrs on a tire.

Yep, same here. The most I could get was about 40-50 hours out of a tire. The really strange thing with mine was that when I initially went with pneumatic tire setup, everything worked butter smooth, but over time, the shimmy started out very mild and progressively got worse and worse over about a year or so. It eventually got so bad that I had to change back to the lightweight wheel.
 
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