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Opinions on my RV-12 panel (Garmin GPS 175??)

pstraub

Well Known Member
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all my RV friends and the VAF/Van's community. I have not been an active instrument pilot for over 30 years (I let my CFII expire in 1988) and I find myself missing the IFR world. I was recently asked to be a safety pilot for my neighbor in his V35 Bonanza, as he did 3 approaches at a few of the local airports. It was the first time I ever got to experience an RNAV GPS approach (they did not exist in General Aviation in 1988). I only knew ILS, LOC, VOR and NDB approaches. I never wanted to add Nav radios to my panel, I was just happy to build my little VFR RV-12. My ELSA OpLims were issued with the IFR/IMC approval if I have the required 91.205(d) equipment.

Now I really want to install a certified GPS navigator in my panel and I'm looking for opinions/experience. I think I have settled on the new 175 from Garmin, it's only 2" high and 6" wide and only has a current draw of .6 - .9 amps which is good for my anemic 912ULS electrical system.

I have a Dynon dual Skyview panel. I'd like to install the 175 in the upper center of my panel. It should integrate with my Dynon EFIS via an ARINC-429 module. I have to make room, so I think I will relocate or just remove my knob modules. Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated. I am including a picture of my panel as it looks today. I removed the map box and added the 2nd EFIS about 6 months after I built the plane. I could easily be overlooking something and I really respect the experience/knowledge out there. Thanks for any thoughts or ideas, general or specific. Paul

lf5iXIH.jpg
 
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all my RV friends and the VAF/Van's community. I have not been an active instrument pilot for over 30 years (I let my CFII expire in 1988) and I find myself missing the IFR world. I was recently asked to be a safety pilot for my neighbor in his V35 Bonanza, as he did 3 approaches at a few of the local airports. It was the first time I ever got to experience an RNAV GPS approach (they did not exist in General Aviation in 1988). I only knew ILS, LOC, VOR and NDB approaches. I never wanted to add Nav radios to my panel, I was just happy to build my little VFR RV-12. My ELSA OpLims were issued with the IFR/IMC approval if I have the required 91.205(d) equipment.

Now I really want to install a certified GPS navigator in my panel and I'm looking for opinions/experience. I think I have settled on the new 175 from Garmin, it's only 2" high and 6" wide and only has a current draw of .6 - .9 amps which is good for my anemic 912ULS electrical system.

I have a Dynon dual Skyview panel. I'd like to install the 175 in the upper center of my panel. It should integrate with my Dynon EFIS via an ARINC-429 module. I have to make room, so I think I will relocate or just remove my knob modules. Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated. I am including a picture of my panel as it looks today. I removed the map box and added the 2nd EFIS about 6 months after I built the plane. I could easily be overlooking something and I really respect the experience/knowledge out there. Thanks for any thoughts or ideas, general or specific. Paul

lf5iXIH.jpg

Paul I was thinking the same thing, add a Garmin GPS 175 on the center stack. I would love to train in the IFR environment and fly IFR on a nice day X country. It is definitely cheeper and easter to install the say a GTN 650. I was talking about it with the Garmin guys and the GPS 175 is going to be connected to the system via RS-232 to the GDU and ARINC 429 to the GAD 29. Not sure how it will integrate with the Dynon Skyview?
 
Hi guys, thanks for the comments, good things to think about. With the AP knob module, I would find another spot for it. The other knob module is just a convenience and I could live without it if I can't find room.
 
You may be able to mount the Garmin 175 above the Com radio and then purchase the Dynon horizontal AP control to mount above that.
 
You may be able to mount the Garmin 175 above the Com radio and then purchase the Dynon horizontal AP control to mount above that.

That's a good point, I could sell the vertical module and buy the horizontal. I will look at that spacing. Thanks!!
 
You could also sell the spare Dynon SkyView Touch and lighten your current load and strain on the Voltage Regulator, too, before adding the Garmin 196.
 
The GPS 175 displays on the PFD. If you replace the MFD with the GPS175, power budget isn’t a problem. If you keep the MFD, the easiest location is to mount it is directly under the PFD. You will need to use it for selecting procedures and modifying flight plans. I believe that location still meets the definition for proper field of view.

A search on VAF has a lot of information regarding the power budget. I believe the second screen that you added depleted the remaining power available from the alternator. The Ducati voltage regulator is prone to failures. A HS VR replacement kit is available from Van’s but, IMO you are still going to be over the power budget.

In case of a power failure you will not have the reserve needed to satisfy the power reserve requirements for an IFR installation. The GPS 175 only has a single power source. You could give it pass through power from a TWC back up power supply. The current TWC is not big enough to handle the load/time required. I believe you will need to up size it.

All said, this is your plane. Build it as you wish but, please be safe.
 
Is there room above the Left flight display, perhaps shifted slightly to the right?

The original position of the 430w in my RV7 was there, I initially thought it was a bad place but came to like it.
 
Hi all, thanks for the very thoughtful comments, this is all good food for thought and I really appreciate the opinions/ideas. I am a little 'all over the map' right now, from the power budget with my stock, still original Ducati VR that has not yet failed! (should I minimally upgrade to the SH VR available from Van's) to the physical install within the panel (again, you guys have given me several ideas). Also, how well will the G175 integrate with my Skyview PFD (CDI performance, etc). I feel a bit like a child with my rudimentary questions, but I would be a fool to not take advantage of the wealth of knowledge in the VAF community. Thanks again!
 
I'm no expert on panel design but I would definitely put the navigator in the center stack. Put the 3 knob Dynon controller over the PFD since it controls functions on that side. Move the AP controller to the right perhaps at the same height as the 3 knob controller. if its still reachable at that location. I have seen this sort of arrangement on a Sport Cruiser. Of course lots to consider when look at the issue of arranging the wiring in the Avionics bay.
 
Hey Paul,

I would want to save the knobs panels. They are really designed for IFR workload efficiency and expert AP use. Consider moving the knobs panels down to the center tunnel inspection cover. You would have to make up new harnesses with enough slack to have service loops to allow removing the cover. Should be pretty straight forward. The only downside I see to that location is having to move your eyes down there to use the knobs. You still have SV left and right joysticks so you could configure those for the things you need most when IFR, like altitude and heading.

Since the knobs panels are optional, you should be able to buy a new center panel without the knobs cut-outs. I would add the grab handle at the top. You would have plenty of room in the stack for a navigator but I think you would have to relocate your ADSB-in module. Lots of room behind the second display for that box.

My 2¢, good luck and I'm looking forward to see what you come up with!
 
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My 2¢, good luck and I'm looking forward to see what you come up with!

Great suggestions/ideas Tony, thank you. I will definitely keep the AP knob module. I will post the final solution. Pretty much a minimum of $5K in new hardware (GPS 175 + Dynon ARINC-429), along with some new panel hardware. I hope to get it right the first time! Happy New Year to you and yours! Paul
 
You may want to consider replacing the GTR200 with a Dynon VHF-COM radio, which is the same size as the KNOB and AP panel. The center panel should be wide enough for the three side-by-side. The GTR200 slot could then be adapted to the GPS175 2" bezel height. The GPS175 rack & connector depth should be fit in the GTR200 space. ARINC-429 and RS-232 connections to Skyview should not be a problem, you will need the Dynon ARINC box. Also you will need to add a GA35 WAAS GPS antenna.

You could eliminate the right side Skyview display and replace it with an iPAD mini / iPad Air for power reduction. With the GPS175 map and Foreflight you would not be missing much from the co-pilot side (Stratus 3 would also get you a backup AHRS capability on Foreflight).

I am running a IFD540 with the Skyview in my RV-12. The capability to fly a fully coupled GPS/ILS with the autopilot is nice to have. With an auto-throttle it would not be too far to add an Autoland capability to the Dynon.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
GNC355

You might want to consider replacing the GTR200 with a GNC355. It is the same GPS as the 175, but will add the Comm radio in one unit. It is a little taller than the 200, which is 1.35" tall, and the 355 is 2.02" tall, that way you can keep the rest of the panel the same.

If you email me at [email protected], I will send you my wiring diagram I made to connect the GPS to the SkyView system, and the setup instructions, with pictures.

Brian
 
If you email me at [email protected], I will send you my wiring diagram I made to connect the GPS to the SkyView system, and the setup instructions, with pictures.

Brian

Thanks very much Brian, you actually emailed your 5-page PDF to me in late December. It will be very helpful and I'm still considering the GNC355 and pulling out the GTR200 as you suggest. Thanks again, Paul
 
Paul, as a lapsed cfii I’m sure you know that instrument flying is all about risk management. Some posters have suggested pulling your second attitude source, leaving you with one attitude source, one source of electrical power, one navigation source. Legal, yes. How wise? That depends on your risk tolerance. I know it’s easy to spend other people’s money, but I’d suggest: sell your MFD panel. Replace it with a Garmin G5 or GRT Mini EFIS, with its own 2 hour battery. That would leave panel space for the gps. Consider a portable hand-held battery operated nav-com.
 
Paul, as a lapsed cfii I’m sure you know that instrument flying is all about risk management.......

Hi Bob, great to hear from you. I don't know if you remember but it was about 5 years ago when you let me come to your hangar in Livermore and see your RV-10 (I was still deciding whether to build a -10 or a -12, and obviously I took the much easier path). You make several good points. I was really just wanting an official nav source so I could fly some approaches for fun in VMC. It would also be nice in case of emergency. Thanks again for the comments! Paul
 
Paul, yes I remember you now. I didn’t associate you with the TN address.
Here’s a wild idea for VFR and emergency use only: GRT will sell you one of their newer EFIS units, their adsb GPS source, and approach software for US GPS approaches. It is neither TSO nor otherwise approved by the faa, but should be fine for vfr practice or emergencies. I’ll leave it to you to add up the dollars and see if this makes financial sense compared to the Garmin system.

Bob
 
Washers?

Nice panel! Off your main topic - paint a few washers black and put under a few or the screws. Washers just slightly larger than the screw heads. You may really like the look. My panel is in silver carbon-fiber-look vinyl and I did that with SS washers and really like the look.
 
Paul:

Very attractive instrument panel.

What is the coating on it? Any suggestions on applying it? How is it lasting?

Where did you get the black screws?

Thanks.

Brett H
Columbus, IN
 
Paul:
Very attractive instrument panel.
What is the coating on it? Any suggestions on applying it? How is it lasting?

Hi Brett, it's .5mm carbon fiber panel. It will have adhesive backing already attached. It comes from Protech Composites in Vancouver, WA (http://www.protechcomposites.com/) They will lay it out exactly to your panel and CNC cut it. My panel was 3 pieces of the carbon fiber and it cost me about $230 total. They do awesome work, so I highly recommend them. It has held up very well, it's been over 3 years since I installed it. Definitely worth a phone call. Paul
 
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