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Compression tests-hot vs cold ?

Aviaman

Well Known Member
I had what seems a counter intuitive result. I got compression readings that were slightly higher measured cold, than when measured hot. It wasn?t a big difference, something like 72,73,73,73 hot vs. 76,77,77,77 cold. It seems when hot, the clearances and fit would be tighter, causing compressions to be higher. Any ideas?
 
Hot

I thought it always had to be done hot.
If cold compression is higher, curious if the rings are causing the compression loss. Thick oil trapped in cylinders will tend to help with better compression numbers due to less blow by.
Did you hear any hissing from breather during hot testing?
 
Does it matter, hot vs cold, as long as you are consistent from one time to the next? I always thought compression checks are looking for change since absolute numbers don?t really mean a lot as long as they are pretty good.
 
I had what seems a counter intuitive result. I got compression readings that were slightly higher measured cold, than when measured hot. It wasn?t a big difference, something like 72,73,73,73 hot vs. 76,77,77,77 cold. It seems when hot, the clearances and fit would be tighter, causing compressions to be higher. Any ideas?

I assume you are positive that you had exactly 80 psi coming in for both tests?
 
Yes, I was careful to dial in 80psi.

I had a thought that the air connections are themselves sources of leaking. Since there is an air connection at the output of the measuring device, and also at the adaptor plug at the cylinder, any leaking of those 2 connections would lower the reading. Those are harbor freight air connectors. Has anyone had issues with Them leaking? It might not matter for many applications, but for a leak down measurement, it may very well.
 
One thing I learned when getting a prebuy on my RV4 is that it is called a leak down compression test, not a compression test. I used to rock the prop looking for the highest pressure, and then only held it there for a couple seconds to record the almost highest pressure. My mechanic looked for the peak pressure at or near TDC and then just held it there until it quit leaking down and recorded that. If you peak at 78, you don?t record 78, unless it stays there while keeping the 80 psi input pressure constant. If you start at 78 and then it slowly leaks down to 50 in 30 seconds, you may want to investigate further.

That being said, I don?t think a leak down check tells you a lot, unless it leaks down to a relatively low pressure, like 50?s or lower/80.
 
Correct, it is a leak down test, the ability for a cylinder to hold pressure against what's being forced into it, IE: PSI.
 
I had what seems a counter intuitive result. I got compression readings that were slightly higher measured cold, than when measured hot. It wasn?t a big difference, something like 72,73,73,73 hot vs. 76,77,77,77 cold. It seems when hot, the clearances and fit would be tighter, causing compressions to be higher. Any ideas?

What is creating the seal are steel rings inside a steel barrel. Both have the same thermal expansion coefficient, so those two items probably don't care about what temperature you measure compression at. However, the oil is much thicker when cold, so tiny menisci between the rings/cylinder/pistons will take a higher pressure to "blow open" at cold temperatures.

Or something else...?
 
One thing I learned when getting a prebuy on my RV4 is that it is called a leak down compression test, not a compression test. I used to rock the prop looking for the highest pressure, and then only held it there for a couple seconds to record the almost highest pressure. My mechanic looked for the peak pressure at or near TDC and then just held it there until it quit leaking down and recorded that. If you peak at 78, you don’t record 78, unless it stays there while keeping the 80 psi input pressure constant. If you start at 78 and then it slowly leaks down to 50 in 30 seconds, you may want to investigate further.

That being said, I don’t think a leak down check tells you a lot, unless it leaks down to a relatively low pressure, like 50’s or lower/80.

Take a look at Lycoming SI1191A. Download it here: https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1191a
"To assure that the piston rings are seated, the propeller is moved slightly back and forth with a rocking motion while air pressure is applied; thus providing a more accurate reading"

I was taught to always check compressions when the engine has been warmed up, as the SI states. Just for kicks I have checked my RV7's cold twice then followed up with a hot check. Both times the cold compressions were a few psi lower. YMMV.

BTW as far as not telling us a lot, item #3 addresses that. A compression test is a very good tool used for decades for good reason. When combined with borescope inspections it tells us much about the engine's top end health.
 
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Given our primary interest is valve seating, I don't think hot or cold makes a lot of difference. Just do it the same (hot or cold) every time.
 
Differential leak down tests should be done hot. Bring the prop to TDC and hang on to the prop with two hands while you add air. You can move the prop a little either side of TDC and often you'll see the increase in air pressure, sometimes that's all it takes to seat a valve better.
Listen carefully for the air leaking out. If the noise is coming from your exhaust pipe, that's valves, if it's coming from the oil add location, that's rings. The compression is not as important as the difference between cylinders as the closer they are the better. Keep one thing in mind, it's not uncommon for these pressures to change so don't read too much into a low jug..it might be low for that moment in time only and a few months later back to normal.
These tests have been the gold standard for many years but these days the bore scope is a much better test as long as you have a very experienced operator who knows exactly what to look for..doesnt hurt to do both
 
Cold compression higher than hot? Using straight weight oil? Oil control rings are worn.
Verify by reading your sparkplugs.
 
There is some misinformation at times in this thread. Rocking the prop at TDC on the compression stroke does NOT move the valves at all to affect their seating. That only happens at TDC of the exhaust stroke. Also,the oil control ring does not appreciably add or subtract from compression readings,just the top two rings.
 
Since there is a leak path for the pressurized air through the ring end gaps, will there be a very tiny amount of air escaping into the crankcase that is slightly audible in the oil filler tube?

Yes. the leakage is through the ring gaps and sometimes between the rings/land interface. You always have a decent amount of air leakage past the rings during a leak down test. This is why they have a standardized air orifice size; To keep everything relative to the leakage expected on an optimal engine.

The rocking at TDC is to help the air pressure to push the rings fully against the lands and mainimize that leakage during the test, which would not occur when the piston is moving, as in normal operation.

Larry
 
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