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Proposing...THE RV-16!!

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Moderator, Asst. Line Boy
Ambassador
...and why not ?!

What do you get when you expand the size of an RV-7?
The RV-14!
After all: RV-7 x 2 = RV-14

With that in mind....

What do you get when you expand the size of an RV-8?
The RV-16!
After all: RV-8 x 2 = RV-16!!

More power, roomier, etc etc The math certainly works, don't it? :cool:

What say you, Vans?

SIGN ME UP!!
 
RV15

A Gull wing door RV14 with side door baggage access and it be big enough for a one person small jump seat.
 
RV-16,
Two RV-8 fuselages joined together, somewhat like this guy !!!
 

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...and why not ?!

What do you get when you expand the size of an RV-7?
The RV-14!
After all: RV-7 x 2 = RV-14

With that in mind....

What do you get when you expand the size of an RV-8?
The RV-16!
After all: RV-8 x 2 = RV-16!!

More power, roomier, etc etc The math certainly works, don't it? :cool:

What say you, Vans?

SIGN ME UP!!

Would you not then have a F1 Rocket?
 
I think the RV-16 should be a F1 Rocket killer. Make it easier to build with pre-drilled holes. The RV-16 should be made to fit the IO540 engine or anything more extreme. Since the days of the Reno unlimited warbirds are numbered, the sports class is where the racing action is. Have an option of extendable wingtips like the 15M glider that can extend the wings to 18M so the plane can have good cruise performance flying to the races and the option for shorter wingspan for more speed. When at the race, take off the wingtips for shorter wingspan to gain more top speed around the pylons. Add the wingtips back for the cruise trip home. This option will match the F1 Rocket in term of speed and have better cruise efficiency for the long cross-country flights. With the legendary Vans customer support and easy to build, it should attract a lot of speed addicts.
 
I think the RV-16 should be a F1 Rocket killer. Make it easier to build with pre-drilled holes. The RV-16 should be made to fit the IO540 engine or anything more extreme. Since the days of the Reno unlimited warbirds are numbered, the sports class is where the racing action is. Have an option of extendable wingtips like the 15M glider that can extend the wings to 18M so the plane can have good cruise performance flying to the races and the option for shorter wingspan for more speed. When at the race, take off the wingtips for shorter wingspan to gain more top speed around the pylons. Add the wingtips back for the cruise trip home. This option will match the F1 Rocket in term of speed and have better cruise efficiency for the long cross-country flights. With the legendary Vans customer support and easy to build, it should attract a lot of speed addicts.

Now THAT would absolutely be my next purchase order. Yes, 100%. All in, right now.
 
Thinking of racing - there is also potential for going smaller. Maybe Vans should look at a mid winged replacement for the Cassutt. Get more budget oriented folks involved in the shifting Reno racing focus. Also there is the potential STOL drags, for this super fun class, the Vans Ground Pounder!

Vans - Kings of Total Performing low, high, & mid winged sport aircraft!
 
I think the RV-16 should be a F1 Rocket killer. Make it easier to build with pre-drilled holes. The RV-16 should be made to fit the IO540 engine or anything more extreme. Since the days of the Reno unlimited warbirds are numbered, the sports class is where the racing action is. Have an option of extendable wingtips like the 15M glider that can extend the wings to 18M so the plane can have good cruise performance flying to the races and the option for shorter wingspan for more speed. When at the race, take off the wingtips for shorter wingspan to gain more top speed around the pylons. Add the wingtips back for the cruise trip home. This option will match the F1 Rocket in term of speed and have better cruise efficiency for the long cross-country flights. With the legendary Vans customer support and easy to build, it should attract a lot of speed addicts.

This, unless we could get a 540 powered Tucano style tandem with stadium seating and retractable tricycle gear. The current crop of mini-Tucanos are too small and slow.

A bigger, beefier 8 would be nice for the backseater.
 
This, unless we could get a 540 powered Tucano style tandem with stadium seating and retractable tricycle gear. The current crop of mini-Tucanos are too small and slow.

A bigger, beefier 8 would be nice for the backseater.

The Tucano seating arrangement is probably not favorable for top speed. Yes, adding retractable gear will make it competitive against the composite retractable ships. There is also a lot of bragging right to high cruise speed because the current crop of RVs is limited by the fixed landing gear. The complexity of the retractable would probably make the model too expensive to build, with lesson learned from demise of the Glasair and Lancair.
 
The Tucano seating arrangement is probably not favorable for top speed. Yes, adding retractable gear will make it competitive against the composite retractable ships. There is also a lot of bragging right to high cruise speed because the current crop of RVs is limited by the fixed landing gear. The complexity of the retractable would probably make the model too expensive to build, with lesson learned from demise of the Glasair and Lancair.

Tucson/Texan style stadium seating may not be the best for speed but it would be fantastic for use as a high performance and aerobatic trainer - something that the -8 currently falls short in due to visibility issues from the back.
 
I've wondered about going the other way. F1 Rockets already covered the hopped up, fast (thirsty) tandem seat market. They don't seem to be selling too quickly, so why enter a small market. How about a tandem seat version of the RV-12? Kits and airplane stuff isn't getting any cheaper, neither is avgas. After one tires of bragging rights, speed is just a number on a dial. Sporty, fun, efficient, tandem seater. Nothing to win races with, but have a blast on a beautiful Saturday afternoon cruise.

I know the RV-12 kits are similarly priced to RV-9, so maybe work on bringing the kit costs and everything a little lower and capture the market of those who don't have 200 grand budget. Realistically, all in and flying for 75 grand?
 
I've wondered about going the other way. F1 Rockets already covered the hopped up, fast (thirsty) tandem seat market. They don't seem to be selling too quickly, so why enter a small market. How about a tandem seat version of the RV-12? Kits and airplane stuff isn't getting any cheaper, neither is avgas. After one tires of bragging rights, speed is just a number on a dial. Sporty, fun, efficient, tandem seater. Nothing to win races with, but have a blast on a beautiful Saturday afternoon cruise.

I know the RV-12 kits are similarly priced to RV-9, so maybe work on bringing the kit costs and everything a little lower and capture the market of those who don't have 200 grand budget. Realistically, all in and flying for 75 grand?

Pretty sure it’s already been done with the RV8/7/6.
Pretty sure any properly leaned 320/360 powered RV8/7/6 is faster and burning less fuel than a 12 above 100knts. Much less than 120knts in mine and I start burning more than 5 GPH.
 
A poor boy rocket based on an updated RV-3 but IO-360 powered and a little more fuel in the wings. Or perhaps a parts bin model based on existing wing, tail and fuselage parts already designed.
 
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I’d venture to bet it will and should be a 5-7 seat cruiser, like a bigger 10. The market is really hot for 5-6 seaters that can carry loads like the Saratoga and Cherokee 6 right now and I don’t see that market dropping out anytime soon. Making it all match hole and ready to “put together” with the same safety, reliability and performance we love and expect from vans will surely be a market crusher. JMO
 
I’d venture to bet it will and should be a 5-7 seat cruiser, like a bigger 10. The market is really hot for 5-6 seaters that can carry loads like the Saratoga and Cherokee 6 right now and I don’t see that market dropping out anytime soon. Making it all match hole and ready to “put together” with the same safety, reliability and performance we love and expect from vans will surely be a market crusher. JMO

Hopefully 5-7 seats with a Walter 601. Cruise around 250kts pressurized.
 
RV16

I think during the RV15 announcement, I thought I heard Greg say he RV16 is in the works.

So my take:
RV15 cessna 170
RV16 cessna 180
 
Bummer

I'm hoping the 15 will be a faster citabria, and the 16 a faster 180.

I think we are saying nearly the same thing.
I hope the 16 is announced at the same time as the 15. It would be a shame if people started the 15 kit, and then realize the 16 is what they really wanted.
 
RV16

First, I have no inside information just pure speculation as to what the 16 might be. We know the 15 is going to be a 2 seat, high wing, tail dragger with an A model option at some point.

I think the 16 is going to be a 4 seat version of the same thing. That's the only thing that makes sense. Many of the same parts will likely be shared. 390 powered.

We'll see!!
 
Take an -8, give the pilot about three more inches between the seat and panel, eight more inches between the front and back seats, and 1-1/2” wider with the canopy two inches taller. IO-540, one-piece airfoil landing gear, latest improvements to the kit for an easier build, and maybe carbon fiber cowl, tips and fairings.
 
Take an -8, give the pilot about three more inches between the seat and panel, eight more inches between the front and back seats, and 1-1/2” wider with the canopy two inches taller. IO-540, one-piece airfoil landing gear, latest improvements to the kit for an easier build, and maybe carbon fiber cowl, tips and fairings.

This is exactly what I would want to see as well. A slightly bigger faster and more refined 8 that is easier to build like the 14. I could probably be coerced into becoming a repeat offender.

Eric
 
Take an -8, give the pilot about three more inches between the seat and panel, eight more inches between the front and back seats, and 1-1/2” wider with the canopy two inches taller. IO-540, one-piece airfoil landing gear, latest improvements to the kit for an easier build, and maybe carbon fiber cowl, tips and fairings.

Again sounds a whole lot like a F1 Rocket!
 
TThe current crop of mini-Tucanos are too small and slow.

Yeah they're working on that. Turbine Tucano-R

image-6.png
 
Faster and funnier...

I'm hoping the 15 will be a faster citabria, and the 16 a faster 180.

Agree completely although I think the 15 will be more of the size/performance of the Bearhawk Patrol but all metal, matched hole or pulled rivets with a cantilever wing optionally aerobatic. Or something like the Vashon Ranger...:)
I think The RV16 will (like you said) be a faster better Skywagon basically a high wing RV10 with numerous engine, cabin and utility options.

I don't see a Van's version of the Tucano a reality, although it would be way cool.
Having seen 60,000 PPH fuel flow during AB takeoffs in the F16 and 29GPH in my LyCon IO540 HR2, I can assure you, gas consumption does matter! :)

V/R
Smokey


15 proposal?


16's bar to exceed :)
 
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Two by Four

Is this a 4 seater your proposing or a 2 seater ? Cause it sounds like one amazing 4 seater platform

Based on Vans OSH announcement the answer to your question is yes, to both, two aircraft the RV15 and 16. Logically one would be a 2 seat, the other a 4 seat.

Although there is nothing from the company to confirm or deny skunkworks rumor control!
:)
V/R
Smokey
 
Van's should focus on an electric RV-12, then expand that skillset into other models. Electric flying is the future, ladies and gentlemen.

amex27_img_edlamp.jpeg
 
I agree that electric propulsion is the future of transportation, after all, dino juice can't last forever, But the obvious elephant in the room is that with current battery technology, there isn't a viable solution that can pack enough electrons into an airplane to actually go anywhere without making it too heavy to be practical...

A quick google search seems to indicate that the battery pack on the Ford Mach-E weighs a little over 1,000 lbs!
 
Believe

... dino juice can't last forever, l...

A quick google search seems to indicate that the battery pack on the Ford Mach-E weighs a little over 1,000 lbs!

Some of us believe "dino juice" is constantly being created (re generated) in the earth's crust. so for us "far out" guys, the question becomes are we consuming it faster than it is being created?
 
I went up today and it was cold! Michigan in winter s not a friendly place. I was glad I had my heater - even as limited as it is at least I have one. No such luck in an elect plane. It takes too much of the battery power. I dont see much of a future for elect flight other than a novelty. Nuclear or other alternates - hopefully.
 
In its current form, don't nuclear reactors just make steam that turns turbines and makes electricity? Have I got that wrong?

Seems like a nuclear airplane is pretty out there, but you would surely have plenty of heat!

perhaps dilithium chrystals are the answer :)
 
I agree that electric propulsion is the future of transportation, after all, dino juice can't last forever, But the obvious elephant in the room is that with current battery technology, there isn't a viable solution that can pack enough electrons into an airplane to actually go anywhere without making it too heavy to be practical....

According to Aviation Week and Space Technology, a number of companies are developing electric aircraft of various types. There is big money and a bunch of talent there. And more than one, I think, are well on their way to getting FAA certification.

Dave
 
According to Aviation Week and Space Technology, a number of companies are developing electric aircraft of various types. There is big money and a bunch of talent there. And more than one, I think, are well on their way to getting FAA certification.

Dave

There is many companies into the urban mobility like air taxi where long range isn't an issue. The urban infrastructure can also support rapid charging at established sites. However, the battery density is limiting the kind of airplane performance we are accustomed to. For a small LSA, anything short range and low speed within 1 - 2 hours is doable, much like flight training. Beyond that, fossil fuel wins out by a wide margin.
 
I agree that electric propulsion is the future of transportation, after all, dino juice can't last forever...

There is a third way: biofuels. About as sustainable and carbon-neutral as a battery, with about the same energy density as fossil fuels.

One possibility is synthetic UL91, which has already been used to fuel a Rotax-912-powered Ikarus C42.

Another possibility is ethanol. (By "ethanol" I mean pure ethanol, E85 to E100, not "gasoline with some ethanol in it" like the E15 that we buy at the gas station). It does pose some challenges - which is why engine companies like Lycoming and Rotax tell us to avoid it - but it is possible to overcome those challenges through R&D, and (after enough testing and some minor modifications) to run most piston airplane engines on ethanol. In Brazil, a large fraction of cars have been running on ethanol for decades, and cropdusters are powered by certified IO-540 engines that run on ethanol. It's not rocket science. It's just a matter of testing materials until you find reliable ones that are not corroded by ethanol, for things like fuel lines and gaskets and fuel pumps and so on.

A third possibility is biodiesel / synthetic Jet-A, which is what most people mean when they say "Sustainable Aviation Fuel". This is already used by airlines and jet manufacturers and bizjet operators and the USAF and Navy. However, there are only very few people who fly piston-powered airplanes who want diesel engines, which have the side benefit of being able to burn Jet-A. I won't go into all the pros and cons of those engines, other than to say that their high price seems to prevent them from becoming super popular.

For example, the Vanguard Squadron has been flying RVs on biofuels for many years.

I would not recommend that anyone start flying their airplane on ethanol, or any other alternative fuel, without first developing a thorough understanding of how each material in your fuel system holds up to years of exposure to the fuel in question, including mixtures with water, or on surfaces that is mostly exposed to air but occasionally to fuel, etc. When you start using an alternative fuel before there are reliable materials and modifications for it on the market (based on R&D and, ideally, years of experience), you're basically engineering your own fuel system.

But it's only a matter of time until we all have to choose one of these options, and are forced to do the R&D and testing and modifications required to safely use synthetic fuels (or hydrogen) or to improve batteries, because dino juice won't last forever.
 
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Messy

Hydrocarbon fuels also mean lubrication oil. This all eventually leaks from somewhere. Needs maintenance, is messy, needs proper disposal.

Air cooled electric motor has no need for lubrication oil, so no oil changes, no mess, no fuel tank leaks or weeping rivets. Us Canucks are plugging in our airplanes so the hydrocarbon engine is warm enough to start. Might as well unplug a power source for an electric motor and go flying. I know we're a long way off in terms of battery capacity and recharge rates. Low maintenance and cleanliness sounds wonderful. Can't wait. :D
 
Train Wreck...

Not to De-Rail this thread any more than it already has been, the RV15 and RV16 are yet to be unveiled by Van's skunkworks but have been vaguely defined in their official statement (see home page this site) at OSH last summer.
High Wing, multi passenger, backcountry (off airport) capable aircraft.

As far as propulsion, until the technology of alternate fuel, electric power or steam, Nuke or otherwise reaches reliable, cost effective and readily available, affordable sources, I don't see it happening prior to next Spring's announcement and prototype (s) slipping the surlies.
That said, I bet it has a Lycoming bolted on the front...

For now. :)
V/R
Smokey
 
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I wanna know

Not to De-Rail this thread any more than it already has been, the RV15 and RV16 are yet to be unveiled by Van's skunkworks but have been vaguely defined in their official statement (see home page this site) at OSH last summer.
High Wing, multi passenger, backcountry (off airport) capable aircraft.

As far as propulsion, until the technology of alternate fuel, electric power or steam, Nuke or otherwise reaches reliable, cost effective and readily available, affordable sources, I don't see it happening prior to next Spring's announcement and prototype (s) slipping the surlies.
That said, I bet it has a Lycoming bolted on the front...

For now. :)
V/R
Smokey

Just wanna know if it is a 320, 390, or 540?
 
Agree

Two place bush plane? My money is on a 390.

I am not sure what is in the RV15, but even if Van's says it is a 320, you know everyone is going to stuff a 390 in it anyway. ;-)

I am sure any 4 place will have the 540.

Can't wait to see the Rocket version of the RV15
 
Hydrocarbon fuels also mean lubrication oil. This all eventually leaks from somewhere. Needs maintenance, is messy, needs proper disposal.

Air cooled electric motor has no need for lubrication oil, so no oil changes, no mess, no fuel tank leaks or weeping rivets. Us Canucks are plugging in our airplanes so the hydrocarbon engine is warm enough to start. Might as well unplug a power source for an electric motor and go flying. I know we're a long way off in terms of battery capacity and recharge rates. Low maintenance and cleanliness sounds wonderful. Can't wait. :D

I am a big proponent of electric power and own a Tesla and had another electric car before the Tesla. Many believe electrics to be pollution free but that is far from the case. The effects of both mining lithium and later disposal of the batteries is a serious issue. The type of power used to charge a electric comes with its own set of problems. Many Tesla’s are effectively burning coal or other greenhouse fuels. The same would apply to aircraft.
 
I am a big proponent of electric power and own a Tesla and had another electric car before the Tesla. Many believe electrics to be pollution free but that is far from the case. The effects of both mining lithium and later disposal of the batteries is a serious issue. The type of power used to charge a electric comes with its own set of problems. Many Tesla’s are effectively burning coal or other greenhouse fuels. The same would apply to aircraft.

Yeah, I find it amusing how electric car users think they are helping the environment. Over the last 10 years, there has been a big push to natural gas for electricity production; Hardly green energy, though less sulfur and other **** from coal burning. That said, I am confident that the CO emissions for the electricity consumed by a car is less than that from the same power produced by an internal combustion engine.

Larry
 
I didn't even comment on the environmental issue of internal combustion vs electric. Just that electric is physically cleaner in that there is nothing to leak. No weeping tank rivets, no oil leaks. Also more user friendly due to significantly less maintenance.

If I'm pluging in the Reiff/Tanis to have my Lycoming warm enough to start. I already need electricity, produced primarily by hydroelectric dams, and nuclear in my area. Once batteries catch up, I'll run my whole plane on the electrons I used to use to keep thr Lycoming warm enough to start.
 
Send in The Clones...

In October, Bushliner purchased the rights, parts, tooling, jigs and everything else to the Cyclone 180/185 series Kitplane clones of the venerable Cessna Skywagon. https://bushliner.com/cyclone/
They're not far from Van's (WA) and it looks like kits will be available in 2022...

With well established Carbon Cub in the area already and Vashon Ranger, Backcountry Super Cubs and others, more great back country airplane kit designs (and otherwise) are headed our way.
Adding to the fray here in the Lone Star State are the legendary Legend Cub and my favorite The Bearhawk.

The Sixteen better be good. :)
V/R
Smokey


Cyclone 185
 
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