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Getting ready for my 1st IFR trip, need some tips...

steve91t

Well Known Member
Hello all. My day job is driving a Dash 8 around the northeast, nearly 5000 hours in it. But now I'm trying to get myself ready to fly a nicely equipped RV7 IFR. I'm checked out in it and my dad and myself did a couple of short IFR trips. When I'm in my Dash, my eyes are trained where the information is that I need. In the RV, I find myself searching, which takes time and increases workload. I didn't realize how different it is flying IFR in GA compared to airlines. It's a lot of work! I know I'll get more comfortable with time.

My biggest problem that I need some help with is organizing. I'm used to having my flight bag right next to me with tons of room. In the 7, once you take off, if its not within reach, you aren't getting it.

On Friday, my buddy, who is a flight instructor, is going to help me get more familiar with the Garman 430 and 496. On Sat, my wife and myself are going to take a short IFR flight somewhere to get lunch. That'll be our practice trip. Should be a beautiful day to go fly. This is all to get ready for our big trip, a flight from NC to FL for Christmas. My minimums are going to be pretty high. I'm not going to be flying in bad weather anytime soon. I get paid to fly in bad weather, I'm not doing it on my days off :)

I'll have my iPhone 5 with foreflight, and normal charts and maps for back up. I'm thinking a small note pad with a pen and some clips to clip charts to.

What do you guys do to stay organized?

Thanks guys,
Steve

42A53205-9DE1-4E80-B599-09D0A27F4DFA-9282-000006757B7C2C8E.jpg
 
The thing you'll miss most is that altitude alerter; unless you have that in your EFIS. Pen/pencil and some scratch paper is good. All charts within reach. I would not rely on iPhone for anything in flight. I use an iPad. Use your CRM skills and put your wife to work holding charts for you. A couple of trips and you'll be comfortable.

Enjoy!
 
I would caution you about ice. If there is a forecast of icing possible at altitudes you can not avoid then I would simply not fly.

George
 
is that a TT auto pilot? very helpful for ifr flight. i like the 430/496, same as my 6, combo but would like to see the 496 on your left side above the vent on a swivel. other than that you look good to go. you sound well trained so go have a ball and report back with a trip report. if you get to south florida look us up.
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Garmin web site has, or at least used to have, a 430 simulator you could download to a PC. Much easier to practice at home than up in the air.
 
My personal pet peeves

My assumption is worst case, single-piloted in the goo the whole time. My ideas might not be as big if its IFR in VMC.

I have an elastic strip that fits around my right hand and holds my pen in position. It sounds like not much, but having it instantly available vice reaching to a pocket or kneeboard, etc is very nice.

Pre-fold the charts

Use tape flags to mark your approach plates. I color code it, green for expected based on winds, yellow for others at destination, red for alternate.

Extensive pre-flight planning. I make a flight packet with full 8.5x11 overview of route, apch plates, airport with taxi way, frequencies enroute (all possible, so all I have to do is just circle the correct one that I was given), etc.

Great crew brief.

These served me very well with a lot of single-pilot IFR/IMC in a CFI to Student relationship.
 
Thanks guys. I'll definitely watch out for ice. Ice in the Dash is a non event, so it's something I need to start paying attention to.

I'm really planning on staying VMC for my 1st few trips. Then I'll start punching through high overcast layers. Being that this is a single engine airplane, I don't see the need to fly in weather requiring an approach to get in. That and night.

So, I've got a pair of cargo pants, I think those will be my "RV" pants. Those extra pockets will come in handy.

I like the idea of pre folding maps and color coding approach plates. I'll have to do that. Our first flight is going to a BBQ joint on a small airport about 30 minutes away. It'll be a good flight to try and get all this figured out.
 
As stated before learn to use the 430. It is not intuitive, at least it was not for me. However with more use I am finding it much easier to use; after complaining so much about the unit I am almost ashamed to say that now, with a bit of practice, it even make sense! Make sure that you know how to add and remove waypoints, how to activate a particular leg in the flight plan, and how the 430 interacts with your EFFIS, and your autopilot.
I really like the pencil strapped to the hand trick, i am going to try that one. I make a running list of all the frequencies that i have used. If nothing else it will help on the return trip.
 
Thanks guys. I'll definitely watch out for ice. Ice in the Dash is a non event, so it's something I need to start paying attention to.

I'm really planning on staying VMC for my 1st few trips. Then I'll start punching through high overcast layers. Being that this is a single engine airplane, I don't see the need to fly in weather requiring an approach to get in. That and night.

So, I've got a pair of cargo pants, I think those will be my "RV" pants. Those extra pockets will come in handy.

I like the idea of pre folding maps and color coding approach plates. I'll have to do that. Our first flight is going to a BBQ joint on a small airport about 30 minutes away. It'll be a good flight to try and get all this figured out.

Steve, Are you going to fly to the PicNPig? If so let me know when you are going and I will meet you there! Great food!!!
George
 
Hello all. My day job is driving a Dash 8 around the northeast, nearly 5000 hours in it. But now I'm trying to get myself ready to fly a nicely equipped RV7 IFR. I'm checked out in it and my dad and myself did a couple of short IFR trips. When I'm in my Dash, my eyes are trained where the information is that I need. In the RV, I find myself searching, which takes time and increases workload. I didn't realize how different it is flying IFR in GA compared to airlines. It's a lot of work! I know I'll get more comfortable with time.

My biggest problem that I need some help with is organizing. I'm used to having my flight bag right next to me with tons of room. In the 7, once you take off, if its not within reach, you aren't getting it.

On Friday, my buddy, who is a flight instructor, is going to help me get more familiar with the Garman 430 and 496. On Sat, my wife and myself are going to take a short IFR flight somewhere to get lunch. That'll be our practice trip. Should be a beautiful day to go fly. This is all to get ready for our big trip, a flight from NC to FL for Christmas. My minimums are going to be pretty high. I'm not going to be flying in bad weather anytime soon. I get paid to fly in bad weather, I'm not doing it on my days off :)

I'll have my iPhone 5 with foreflight, and normal charts and maps for back up. I'm thinking a small note pad with a pen and some clips to clip charts to.

What do you guys do to stay organized?

Thanks guys,
Steve

42A53205-9DE1-4E80-B599-09D0A27F4DFA-9282-000006757B7C2C8E.jpg

i am lower time than you but have flown alot of single pilot IFR. The 430 is poor with reroutes. It does not have airways. So, short of hunting paper charts, trying to make sense of a tiny iphone screen, asking for navaid info, etc you may find yourself wanting for more in that arena. I run anywhere map on an asus TF700 and love it. I keep the samsung note as a backup also with current charts capable of running anywhere map if need be. I do not even keep paper charts in the plane anymore.

I did not see mention of WX on the 496. I run XM WX on my 496 and find it very useful. Obviously plan to avoid or escape ice. I assume you are well versed in the extensive WX available on http://aviationweather.gov/

i assume you know how to get the recent ATC assigned routes between any 2 fields from http://www.fltplan.com/ (useful for avoiding reroutes given the already aforementioned limitations of the 430).
 
. . . . how to add and remove waypoints, how to activate a particular leg in the flight plan, and how the 430 interacts with your EFFIS, and your autopilot. . . .

Select waypoint from FPL screen, Menu, "Activate leg" If you use the direct button, it will cancel you flight plan in the 430W. Don't ask me how I know.

I have gotten quite a bit of soup time with the 430W, AFS EFIS, and the trutrak AP. Unbeatable combination.

Another item: Trutrak with AFS software: Pushing the right button engages the EFIS to AP. Push it again, Trutrak goes to heading and vertical speed hold mode. Very useful iff you have to push buttons on the EFIS to swap from a nav mode to a heading mode and screw with the heading bug.

The Garmin will do SIDS and STARS.
 
"Select waypoint from FPL screen, Menu, "Activate leg" If you use the direct button, it will cancel you flight plan in the 430W."

Short cut: Select waypoint from FPL screen, push Direct Direct (direct twice). This will activate that leg. As stated above pushing Direct once will make your new flight plan direct to that waypoint and end it there.
 
Short cut: Select waypoint from FPL screen, push Direct Direct (direct twice). This will activate that leg. As stated above pushing Direct once will make your new flight plan direct to that waypoint and end it there.

Just when I begin to think I pretty much have the 430W figured out, I find out a nice feature like this! Thanks Bob. That is why I visit this forum!
 
elastic

For those interested, you can make one very easily.

Get a strip of elastic, double it in half and sew the loose ends to make a loop that will fit snugly but not too tight around your palm.

Sew across the end of it to make a much smaller section just big enough to snugly hold your pencil.

Slip it over your palm, pencil side up. Great tool.
 
iPad

Similar to your iPhone.... An iPad is very useful for situational awareness in IFR. It's hard to beat a geo-referenced airplane overplayed on an IFR chart and/or approach plate. Much more user friendly in terms of re- programming routes too. This, of course, would just be supplemental to all that other good stuff in your panel.
 
All I can tell you is if you are used to flying an integrated glass cockpit in a large transport category aircraft you are going to be sorely disappointed with the user interface of the avionics in a light airplane. What was a simple one or two keystroke action in an FMC is a horrific explosion of knob twiddling and button pushing. Don't get me wrong. It can, and is, certainly done but you need to be very very familiar with the ins and outs of your GPS unit before you launch into the clag.
I recommend loading the Garmin simulator on your computer. You have enough professional flying experience to know what you need to be able to do in the Garmin quickly so concentrate on those tasks. It's a great box and has some really nice features, I just can't stand the user interface.
 
So, I've got a pair of cargo pants, I think those will be my "RV" pants. Those extra pockets will come in handy.

I think you'd be surprised how hard it is to get something out your pockets with out FODing out the a/c if you have a bunch of stuff in there.
 
Just completed a 2600 mile RT, much of it IFR. (430W, AFS 4500's, Trutrak AP). As has been mentioned, the 430W does not accept airways, only VORs and intersections. However, if you use foreflight, that WILL accept Victor Airways and immediately converts that input into intersections and VORs which you can then plug into the 430W. I figured this out toward the end of my trip, unfortunately. Spent quite a lot of time during re-routes studying the chart, writing down the appropriate intersections/waypoints, and reprogramming (while on AP). Here are a few other tips:
1. Make sure after updating your flight plan that you zoom out on the 430 to make sure the flight path programmed is contiguous / sensible (bad waypoint doesn't take you 1000 miles out of your way)
2. Request some time to study the re-route before accepting the revised clearance. I didn't want to be routed too far over the ocean, so would advise "standby, studying clearance" prior to readback and accepting clearance.
3. If you get rerouted without enough time to program the avionics prior to the waypoint where the change occurs, you can request vectors while re-programming or just get the first couple of waypoints entered and get the aircraft flying on that leg while programming the rest of the legs.
 
... I'll definitely watch out for ice....

First indication will be when the entire windscreen frosts over - make sure you can get to above freezing to get that off before trying to land.

In icing conditions, I'm personally a little suspicious that the narrow horizontal stabilizer is a tailplane stall waiting to happen - maybe keep the speed up and not use flaps.

Dan
 
AFS EFIS

Good Thread for all...

I'm flying an AFS EFIS, GNS 430W, TT, 696 and love the setup, much has already been said here but would add a few more things to help continue the discussion;

:)Use the HITS on the EFIS. Handy for "seeing your goal" either during a climb, turning, descending, approaching a way point (it shows the name in the box) or just something to monitor the autopilot with while you scanning or busy doing other stuff enroute.

:)Program both portable GPS & 430 when ever able, even in generalization (next big way point or destination) as a back up. Mine are interconnected so I don't fiddle with the duplicate programming but I do have a an Ipad that is my 3rd backup and have to program it also. Electrical failures happen or for just "seeing the big picture" in an "oh crud" moment etc. Good SA habit.

:)There is software in the Garmin portable that is very useful if you loose an instrument like Airspeed, their Panel Page with GS for A/S. Know how to pull that up on your unit if you have pitot freeze up or something?

:)Add a "pointer" to your virtual aircraft on the Garmin portable that shows at a glance what direction your pointing. also handy when in an "oh crud moment."

:)Get an Ipad. Put it on a knee board. The mini would be best but the standard is OK too in a side by side. Geo-Referenced Charts (say NO to paper!) and Pre-Flight planing is The Way! You'll know where you are, have the charts and Plates and Wx. Very Helpful. However, these little planes bounce around in IMC so don't kid yourself about touching the screen exactly when you need to, you may not be able to? Plan for that-have your portable GPS setup too! ;)

:)Have the most recent software loaded in your AFS EFIS. Synthetic Vision is AMAZING! and the added Airports makes IFR approaches so much easier and less stressful. AFS has sectionals and low alt maps, very helpful to maintain SA.

:)Remember, your now flying a much smaller a/c single pilot so, don't forget to "Fly The Aircraft First" while programming and ALWAYS monitor Mr. Auto (he only does what he has been told).

The RV's are wonderful flying planes and great fun but, I was most draw by the modern EFIS panels available. My buddies who fly for the airlines are blown away with the AFS EFIS and the rest, they often say they would like this stuff in the rig they fly. Your in good hands with that gear but, like others have said, take the time to use the Simulator on a computer and you'll be on your way.:cool:

Please, keep us posted, I'm flying IFR on the west coast in the mountains and would like to hear others experiences in these RVs. IFR are is great fun and makes your plane more usable and YOU a more proficient pilot. Enjoy!
 
Extensive pre-flight planning. I make a flight packet with full 8.5x11 overview of route, apch plates, airport with taxi way, frequencies enroute (all possible, so all I have to do is just circle the correct one that I was given), etc.

Dumb VFR guy question.....where do I find the enroute (center) frequencies?
 
Dumb VFR guy question.....where do I find the enroute (center) frequencies?

What Bob said....but also hit <Nearest> <ATC> on your 696 and it will bring up the freq's...very useful. You DO have a 696, right? ;)
 
I believe all the portable Garmins that have the "nearest" feature give you an option for ARTCC frequencies. I know the Aera series does and it works! ;)
 
Even the 430W gives you nearest ARTCC freq's. Twist the little knob all the way to the right in Nav mode, IIRC.
 
Use what you are used to...

I fly a Shorts 330. We have specific procedures when we get ATIS, briefing the approach, descent checks, approach checks and landing checks. I am sure your Dash 8 has similar checks and your operations has similar procedures.

If that is what you are use to, adapt it to your RV. Brief the approach to yourself. When I fly single pilot IFR, I do and out loud. Build your own descent, approach, landing checks and use them. It will add to your comfort level and make the flight more enjoyable.

Don't forget to debrief yourself after the approach. What did I do well and what did I do wrong?

Just two more cents worth of information for you.
 
Yesterday my buddy spent some time with me on the 430. It actually does make sense now that I understand it. I still have a lot to learn, but I can make flight plans, add and delete, go direct without dumping everything, and I can select which approaches to use. I also now know how to switch the EFIS and GPS over for an ILS or LOC approach. I still haven't touched the 496 yet, but I'll have a few hours to and from florida to play with it.


Today my wife and myself went to a small airport with an amazing BBQ restaurant. 30 minutes each way. This was a perfect trip to get ourselves situated before our "big" trip to Florida and back over Christmas.

Here she is all strapped and ready to go.

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She had no idea how much fun she was going to have.

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Little iPhone 5 did pretty good at 3000 feet! Not sure what would happen at 8000 though.

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At the Pick N' Pig. We got there late and it was still busy!

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This is what made my day. On our way home, just 5 minutes into the flight, I asked if Ash wanted to fly. She said sure. She hand flew all the way home, about 25 minutes. She was +- 100 feet and kept us on course. She had a naturally relaxed grip and was so smooth an delicate on the controls that I couldn't even feel her moving them. She asked questions all the way home about flight following, why we want it, how it works, asked questions about the airplane, GPS, and a bunch of down to earth questions. All while flying!

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We are going to have fun in this thing! We can't wait for our next trip.

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We've just been married for 7 years and my wife has become the chief RV cheerleader:)

She's a retired Naval supply officer and always thought of the Navy pilots as a bunch of self-centered, arrogant pilots, so when we started dating, she was waiting for my, "arrogant, self-centered" pilot attitude to show.

That not forthcoming, she became an avid rider, picking day trips and eventually saying, "We need to trade the -6 for a -10 so my sons and our friends can come along." I was flabbergasted, so here we are!

You're a lucky guy!

Best,
 
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