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Looking over Rudder

LuisR

Well Known Member
Looking over V Stab

Ok, finally finished Ning the time to look over the rudder from the partial built kit I just picked up.

1. First, I'm just now noticing that the skin rivets may have been set with the blue vinyl then later removed. I say this because I see blue specs stuck under neath a dozen or so under the rivets.

2. There is a very small gap between the left spar cap and the rear spar.

3. Page 6-4 says to leave 3 horizontal places open. Well, they were riveted. These are part of the VS-1004 or bottom rib.


Is 1 and 2 above a "build on" situation or do I need to remedy them? What's the best way to drill out those 3 rivets in 3 above. I'll post pics later.

https://goo.gl/photos/m725AjEQ8keuNapCA
 
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Ok, finally finished Ning the time to look over the rudder from the partial built kit I just picked up.

1. First, I'm just now noticing that the skin rivets may have been set with the blue vinyl then later removed. I say this because I see blue specs stuck under neath a dozen or so under the rivets.

Drill the rivet out and remove the blue plastic. There are several issues. The first is these specs will be magnified and look terrible when you paint. The other issue is that because the plastic is under the rivet, there may be a small gap between the skin and the manufactured head of the rivet. This could lead to corrosion issues down the road.

2. There is a very small gap between the left spar cap and the rear spar.

You need to investigate more on why this is occurring. It should look like the right side. I would consult with Vans. If it were mine, I would probably take the left skin off to determine the problem. You may have a problem with the alignment of the ribs that is hidden by the skin.


3. Page 6-4 says to leave 3 horizontal places open. Well, they were riveted. These are part of the VS-1004 or bottom rib.

Drill them out. Read ahead in the plans to determine what goes there and if they need to be dimpled. I didn't look at the plans, but I suspect those are for the screws for the fairing that transitions the vertical and horizontal.


Is 1 and 2 above a "build on" situation or do I need to remedy them? What's the best way to drill out those 3 rivets in 3 above. I'll post pics later.


I believe there should be instructions in Chapter 5 on how to remove a rivet. If not, get with a local builder or find an EAA Technical Counselor to show you how to drill out a rivet. It's not hard, but you do have to be careful and get the bit perfectly centered. You may also need to replace with an "oops rivet". Both Vans and ACS stock these, because you're not the first person to remove a rivet and enlarge the hole.

good luck!
 
OK I'm confused mainly because I'm at work and can't open the site that has your pics. You say rudder, but your third question is actually referring to the VS. When I look at page 6-4, there are no steps involving the VS-1004 rib. Can you post the actual step numbers?
 
Yup. V stab. Don't have the plans with me at work. I'll post the actual step tonight.
 
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You need to investigate more on why this is occurring. It should look like the right side. I would consult with Vans. If it were mine, I would probably take the left skin off to determine the problem. You may have a problem with the alignment of the ribs that is hidden by the skin.

If I drill out all the rivets on the left side, is it acceptable to use oops rivets on that many place on one skin? It looks to me that the spar cap was not clamped enough to the rear spar while riveting.
 
1. First, I'm just now noticing that the skin rivets may have been set with the blue vinyl then later removed. I say this because I see blue specs stuck under neath a dozen or so under the rivets.

Double check that it is indeed the blueing and not just blue painters tape. When driving rivets I switch between clear masking and blue painters tape to protect the surface from the rivet gun. The end result is sometimes there are some pieces of tape hammered on that you have to just scrap off with your finger... Acetone works well too.
 
If I drill out all the rivets on the left side, is it acceptable to use oops rivets on that many place on one skin?

No.

As it appears you will be drilling out a boatload of rivets you have two choices:
- Rebuild using 1/8" flush rivets. One person out of a hundred will ever notice the change - and you can always tell this nosey guy that you did a "speed mod".
- Buy new aluminum and start over. In the grand scheme of things this is dirt cheap compared to years of looking at your VS and not being happy. Hang up the old one on a wall and use it as a training aid to show builders who come after you.

Carl
 
Curious why you don?t recruit an experienced local builder to come over and inspect your parts and get you on the right track?
Sometimes these projects are great deals and done well and then there are some that need a ton of work. An experienced eye can be very helpful. :)

Larry
 
Double check that it is indeed the blueing and not just blue painters tape. When driving rivets I switch between clear masking and blue painters tape to protect the surface from the rivet gun. The end result is sometimes there are some pieces of tape hammered on that you have to just scrap off with your finger... Acetone works well too.

Hmmm this may be the case. I'll take another closer look tonight to see if it's actually tape or plastic.
 
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Curious why you don?t recruit an experienced local builder to come over and inspect your parts and get you on the right track?
Sometimes these projects are great deals and done well and then there are some that need a ton of work. An experienced eye can be very helpful. :)

Larry

Yup, I'll attend the next local EAA meeting to meet some new friends.
 
OK I'm confused mainly because I'm at work and can't open the site that has your pics. You say rudder, but your third question is actually referring to the VS. When I look at page 6-4, there are no steps involving the VS-1004 rib. Can you post the actual step numbers?

Yes, his pictures are all of the vertical stabilizer, too. I'm guessing that he's talking about the holes in the rear spar which are reserved for the bottom rib (VS-1004). On 6-5, when the rib is put in place, they are to be clecoed only so they can be removed for riveting the front spar and middle rib to the skin. On page 6-6, step 7, they are to be riveted, so I think he's in good shape.

Regarding the potential blue plastic, I would clean the rivets in question (acid etch applied with a q-tip is good for this), rinse and then dry with compressed air. Have an A&P inspect the rivets for gapping before you do anything drastic, like drilling out rivets. If corrosion is the only concern (as opposed to structural integrity), let the cleaned rivets dry for a few days and then spot-prime with thinned self-etching primer. I'd also touch up the primer where it was scraped by riveting, visible in your photos.

As for the gap you mention, it is hard to notice and will be invisible once the plane is finished. Ask the A&P or a tech counselor to look at it to settle any structural fears and then build on or follow any recommendations you get.
 
Luis,

Don't start drilling out rivets in the real thing until you practice doing it on scraps. You'll get really good at it over time :)

Give me a call, I'll be happy to come by and take a look at your project. And you're still welcome (khmm) to come and take a look at mine... Van's drawings are great but it could be helpful to look at the finished product and see what goes where.

Lenny
 
Lenny, for sure! Been working my arse off to save up for the wing kit now that this kit jump into my lap. I'll be contacting you soon. Short notice probably. Depends, on work.

Patrick. I'll look at the plans again.
 
Previous builder confermed he did use blue tape on the flush riveting head. Great! Still waiting on a response from vans on the spar cap gap.
 
Here is vans reply.

This gap looks to me like they missed a step in dimpling/countersinking and you may possibly have a dimple sitting on a flat piece to create this gap. It could also just simply be that when this part was match drilled to the spar it was not clamped tight against the flange. Either way this is not a very desirable situation. I would recommend you dismantle and fix.

Sterling

Van's Aircraft
 
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