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Switching from Phillips to Torx

rockitdoc

Well Known Member
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So, I am tired of stripping out the phillips drive socket when going into metal locknuts.

Going for torx drives when possible.

Does anyone have a source for some AN507 C632 R8 screws in various lengths with Torx drive?

I searched the net and came up pretty short unless I want 1000 pieces. I need 20 or 30 at most.

Not looking for structural screws, but that's ok if available.

Thanks in advance as usual.

S
 
Albany County Fasteners

Try these guys - I've bought some stainless 8-32 torx head screws off them, not sure about 6-32.
 
Torx

So, I am tired of stripping out the phillips drive socket when going into metal locknuts.

Going for torx drives when possible.

Does anyone have a source for some AN507 C632 R8 screws in various lengths with Torx drive?

I searched the net and came up pretty short unless I want 1000 pieces. I need 20 or 30 at most.

Not looking for structural screws, but that's ok if available.

Thanks in advance as usual.

S

McMaster
Every kind of Torx screw you might want
https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/
 
for lower torque applications I'm a fan also of robertson type screws. Might be a consideration if you can't locate your torx in the correct size and spec.
or even hex socket screws...I agree though, philips is a poor design and should never be used
 
My experience with Torx is such that I replace them with Philips every chance I get. I try to use the SJS style Philips bits and truthfully have fewer problems with stripping than with the Torx.
 
So, I am tired of stripping out the phillips drive socket when going into metal locknuts.

Going for torx drives when possible.

Does anyone have a source for some AN507 C632 R8 screws in various lengths with Torx drive?

I searched the net and came up pretty short unless I want 1000 pieces. I need 20 or 30 at most.

Not looking for structural screws, but that's ok if available.

Thanks in advance as usual.

S

My experience with Torx is such that I replace them with Philips every chance I get. I try to use the SJS style Philips bits and truthfully have fewer problems with stripping than with the Torx.

My experience has mirrored Boyd’s concerning Torx screws. I started my build way back in 2005 and thought the Torx screws were the answer. It didn’t take long for me to figure out they weren’t. Trust me when I say the Torx will strip out just as easily as the Phillips. Plus it is difficult to find the correct Torx head driver if away from home.

I went back to Phillips head screws and never looked back. I keep plenty of Phillips head screws in inventory and replace any the minute they show wear.
 
I too have found that JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) bits seem to fit our aircraft's Philips screws better. McMaster-Carr carries them in various sizes and styles.
 
Torx

If you are stripping Torx head screws, you are doing something wrong, using the wrong size bit, or the screws are of questionable quality. With a #6 size Torx screw, you are more likely to shear the screw before you strip the head.

I have replaced ALL of the panel mount screws on my -10 with Torx screws and have not had any problems, with the exception of trying to use a #15 bit in a #20 screw; in that case, it seems like it is the right bit but only the tips are engaged and it will feel like it is stripped.

I ordered from Penncom, and 1000 screws was about $55. #6 and #8 FH 100 degree SS screws...
 
ASTM A286 is a fairly widely used spec, 105ksi from my very fallible memory. Most of the usual fastener suppliers have them.
 
do not recommend stainless

I thought I would be smart and use stainless screws firewall forward. That was a mistake.
Stainless screws have a nasty habit of seizing up. I am told it has to do with the way the screws are cut. Just out of A&P school, I got a job working on rocket stuff that used hydrazine fuel. We had stainless steel housing with cut threads and stainless steel screws. Every few months when we disassemble a part and we would get a screw seized in the housing.
On my firewall forward stuff, I had an Adel clamp screw seize. I had to cut the clamp. Then I remembered my past experience.

I do have a few stainless steel button heads in the cockpit that go into nutplates, These are for the tunnel covers where a allen head would rub against the passengers feet. Every where else they are now banned and get changed when I have to unscrew them.
YMMV
 
I sharpen the blades and flatten the tip of the screw driver on my polishing wheel and it seems to help a lot in addition to using the right size screw driver bit.
 
Stainless will stretch under too much torque And the threads deform with the stretch which is what makes it seize up. We have the same experience with Stainless bolts up to a quarter inch - it will seize from stretching and we have to cut them off. This is on non-aviation applications.

Low torque applications work OK but there’s a fine line when you hit too much torque.
 
A286 stainless at 160 ksi is a very good material - hard to find and not cheap.

Here's a good hardware reference that you can download. It's free and shows what the hardware looks like and enough information to order it. But for a full description of the individual hardware, download the specification and look for it. Often a letter in the spec number can make a huge difference. I like everyspec.com for specifications when it shows up on a search.

Here is the spec for NAS517 flush screws. These aren't A286 but they are 160 ksi and will stand up to some abuse.

View attachment NAS517 Flush Screw.pdf

Aircraft Spruce has these at reasonable prices.

Dave
 
Been using stainless Torx now for ~20 years on access covers, fairings, tank skin/wing, wingtips/wing skin attachments, etc. The heads will strip, but only if you don't fully engage the bit. But nothing nearly as sensitive as the Phillips. Make sure the nutplate threads are loose and free. They will gall. If it's more than finger tight, run a tap though it once and all will be good.
 
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Make sure the nutplate threads are loose and free. They will gall. If it's more than finger tight, run a tap though it once and all will be good.

Hmmm...That pretty much negates the vibration resistant (locking) feature of the nutplate.
 
Hmmm...That pretty much negates the vibration resistant (locking) feature of the nutplate.

They always stay tight. Never in all this time with all the hundreds of screws I have installed had one back out that was properly tightened. So now that I think about it, I have only had to chase the threads in a maybe 3, 4 nutplates, ever. Maybe they were out of tolerance too small. And I may have had to drill out/twist out 1, maybe 2 screws ever. Not a frequent problem. Moving ahead, I think using ACF-50 (ref Mickey's comment below) or some similar product would be the first, best course of action if you have a tight fastener.
 
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I find that Torx (6lobe) are so much better than Phillips head screws. If you put the tool in, and of course use the right size, it does not come out. Can't say the same with Phillips.

I have not had any issue with galling or seizing, but I always touch mine with a tiny bit of ACF-50 before screwing them in the first time. It lasts a while.
 
THIS!

I too have found that JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) bits seem to fit our aircraft's Philips screws better. McMaster-Carr carries them in various sizes and styles.

I now use JIS screwdrivers on all of my Phillips screws. Much better "grip" than with Phillips screwdrivers. They are a virtual necessity if you actually have JIS head screws - like in Denso style alternators (ask me how I know :().
 
Another vote for the Torx and also echo the thinking of if you're stripping them, something other than the screw is the issue. I've used Torx in decking applications and a single Torx bit will last an entire 10 lbs box of screws and none of them strip out, this is a high Torx, high speed use case.
 
When using the inferior philips, use a superior tool.

Another vote for the Torx and also echo the thinking of if you're stripping them, something other than the screw is the issue. I've used Torx in decking applications and a single Torx bit will last an entire 10 lbs box of screws and none of them strip out, this is a high Torx, high speed use case.

I agree that TORX is a superior engagement for screws, but only if the screw material is equal. They are not for our aviation application as mentioned by Walt and David Paul. Yes, A286 is good if you can find them in a 6-32. Our exhaust system nuts are A286.
 
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Read somewhere that Phillips screws were designed so that you couldn't over-tighten them, instead the screwdriver would pop out.

Don't know if that's true or not.

I always have a supply of spares, and any screw head that looks even slightly worn gets pitched. Ten cent screw vs ten minutes of trying to get it out?
 
I agree that TORX is a superior engagement for screws, but only if the screw material is equal. They are not for our 100 deg aviation application as mentioned by Walt and David Paul. Yes, A286 is good if you can find them in a 6-32. Our exhaust system nuts are A286.

Torx actually DO come in 100° head!
 
Microfasterners - Torx = 6 Lobe

What the title says:

Microfasteners calls them 6-Lobe instead of Torx.

Same-o, same-o.

HFS
 
Torx actually DO come in 100° head!

Mel, I should not have singled out the angle. The real difference is the material yield strength.

It is not about Torx, it is the 304 stainless yield strength. My plenum is held on with 6-32 304 stainless, but phillips. They do smear, but using the APEX bit, seldom slip.

I would love to find standard CAD plated steel Torx for the same price of course.:D
 
What the title says:

Microfasteners calls them 6-Lobe instead of Torx.

Same-o, same-o.

HFS

Not the same at all. Six Lobe is a hex head shaped screw head. A Torx is a six pointed star shaped screw head. Look closely at what Microfasterners is calling 6-lobe, it's a hex head.
 
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Not the same at all. Six Lobe is a hex head shaped screw head. A Torx is a six pointed star shaped screw head. Look closely at what Microfasterners is calling 6-lobe, it's a hex head.

I don't think that's exactly the case. Here is the description line from the order that I placed with MicroFasteners a while back. These are great screws.

FCMXS0808 - 8-32 x 1/2 T15 - 100 Degree Flat Head 6 Lobe Drive Machine Screws - Stainless 100 pcs/pkg

Note the T15, that is the Torx bit that is used for these screws and it is a very accurate fit. This is not a hex head, 6-lobe is the Torx star with the points rounded at the very end. The driver bit isn't pointed like the true Torx screw star pattern, it is slightly rounded. You can use the T-15 driver with a hex head but a hex driver wouldn't be a great fit for these screw heads.
 
You might learn some new words if you're around when I have an aircraft come in with all these "fancy" fasteners.
Pretty sure most mechanics (folks that do this for a living) feel the same way.
 
Valve Lapping Compound

I learned a long time ago from a veteran aircraft wrench that a dab of valve lapping compound on the tip of the screwdriver performs miracles. It is amazing how well the bit grips the screws and stops stripping. - Jason
 
I don't think that's exactly the case. Here is the description line from the order that I placed with MicroFasteners a while back. These are great screws.



Note the T15, that is the Torx bit that is used for these screws and it is a very accurate fit. This is not a hex head, 6-lobe is the Torx star with the points rounded at the very end. The driver bit isn't pointed like the true Torx screw star pattern, it is slightly rounded. You can use the T-15 driver with a hex head but a hex driver wouldn't be a great fit for these screw heads.

6-lobe isn't a commonly used description of a drive. The picture in the microfasteners website is of a hex. Trying to add a picture, but it's not working. Reference this link: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/set-most-popular-slots-screwdrivers-flat-2075248294

set-most-popular-slots-screwdrivers-flat-2075248294
 
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6-lobe isn't a commonly used description of a drive. The picture in the microfasteners website is of a hex. Trying to add a picture, but it's not working. Reference this link: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/set-most-popular-slots-screwdrivers-flat-2075248294

set-most-popular-slots-screwdrivers-flat-2075248294

The picture is quite poor on that website. I've attached it. I have these screws and they are definitely not hex. If you zoom in you can just make out the lobe rounding extending the corners.
 

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You might learn some new words if you're around when I have an aircraft come in with all these "fancy" fasteners.
Pretty sure most mechanics (folks that do this for a living) feel the same way.

Cause that's the way it's always been done...:D:rolleyes:
 
I learnt a few new words every year removing various hard to get Philips from seat pans near the edges etc.
my language has improved dramatically since I replaced them with torx.

I wouldn’t use them for anything structural but for access panels and the like I find them far superior.
I’ve never stripped one. But I’ve snapped a few because they are much easier to over torque and unlubed S/S can gall as others have pointed out
 
I learnt a few new words every year removing various hard to get Philips from seat pans near the edges etc.
my language has improved dramatically since I replaced them with torx.

I wouldn’t use them for anything structural but for access panels and the like I find them far superior.
I’ve never stripped one. But I’ve snapped a few because they are much easier to over torque and unlubed S/S can gall as others have pointed out

I also only use the SS torx fasteners for non structural fastening, such as inspection panels, fairings, and the baggage bulkhead cover. They go into a cup as I remove them, then give them a quick spray of lubricant while in the cup before they go back in to help prevent galling. I have NEVER stripped or broke one of these.
 
FWIW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

"Torx (pronounced /tɔːrks/) is a trademark for a type of screw drive characterized by a 6-point star-shaped pattern, developed in 1967[1] by Camcar Textron.[2] A popular generic name for the drive is star, as in star screwdriver or star bits. The official generic name, standardized by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO 10664, is hexalobular internal.[3] This is sometimes abbreviated in databases and catalogs as 6-lobe (starting with the numeral 6, not the capital letter G)."

"By design, Torx head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or slot head screws.[1] Whereas the tendency of Phillips drivers to cam out under excessive torque has been listed as a feature preventing damage to the screw-head or driver,[6] Torx heads were designed to prevent cam-out. The development of better torque-limiting automatic screwdrivers for use in factories allowed this change. Rather than rely on the tool to slip out of the screw head when a desired torque level is reached (which risks damage to the driver tip, screw head, and/or workpiece), torque-limiting driver designs achieve a desired torque consistently."

"Torx head sizes are described using the capital letter "T" followed by a number ranging from T1 to T100.[7] But some manufacturers and resellers head sizes are also abbreviated using "TX" or "Tx" in front of the number.[8] [9] A smaller number corresponds to a smaller point-to-point dimension of the screw head (diameter of circle circumscribed on the cross-section of the tip of the screw driver). Common sizes include T10, T15, and T25, while T35 and T47 tend to see specialized use. Only the proper driver can drive a specific head size without risk of damaging the driver or screw. The same series of Torx drivers is used to drive SAE, metric and other thread system fasteners, reducing the number of bit sizes required."
 
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I also like the Torx screws,but have made the sad mistake of getting the bits wrong. You can turn a #8 screw with the bit for a #6 for a few turns, but they will strip once you get close to the final few turns. And the two are easy to get confused unless you check the stamps on the bits to keep them straight.
 
Has anyone found a source of torx versions of AN525 washer head screws? Whenever I have to remove my cowl, I strip 75% of the Philips heads on these stupid things and have to end up dremeling a channel into them to remove them with a flat screwdriver.
 
The picture is quite poor on that website. I've attached it. I have these screws and they are definitely not hex. If you zoom in you can just make out the lobe rounding extending the corners.

My old eyes get older with every passing year. I can see the lobes in your picture.
 
Has anyone found a source of torx versions of AN525 washer head screws? Whenever I have to remove my cowl, I strip 75% of the Philips heads on these stupid things and have to end up dremeling a channel into them to remove them with a flat screwdriver.

Dare I suggest a torx screw, and a washer? :D
 
I also like the Torx screws,but have made the sad mistake of getting the bits wrong. You can turn a #8 screw with the bit for a #6 for a few turns, but they will strip once you get close to the final few turns. And the two are easy to get confused unless you check the stamps on the bits to keep them straight.

in the rare times I've had issues I'm pretty sure that's what I've done....
and also then the bit gets damaged and so the next time it's used on a proper screw there's a greater chance of issues.

Not so unlike a phillips...never can tell if it's really phillips or JIS or posidrive or supadrive or whatever I think every phillips driver I have around the house is worn from improper uses. I really don't like any of them....prefer robertson, torx, or hex socket
 
I really ike the way the torx head will hold the bit for you in a place where it can be tough to get eyeballs on the bit/screw contact. Just let your fingers feed the bit into the screw. Not having to watch it while turning is a big plus in my view.
 
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