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Question on a RV thats never flown.

D

deltamike

Member
I have a question about an RV8 Thats built but never flown. It's had 3 owners and I am sure there are no builders logs of any sort.

What would be the process of getting her breathing. There are zero records log of any sort only an engine log.

I think the builder that did most of the work died, the second just flipped it and the 3rd paid to have it finished. I'm being lazy and seeking info here rather than looking it up.

The plane has been finished started and ran and now has set in the corner of a hangar for 5 years. Very sad.

Thanks for the feed back.
 
So many mines to avoid. Unless you are getting this plane for close to nothing, walk away. If you really must have it, get an experienced RV-8 builder to do a deep dive on the plane - as well as a good engine guy to look at what might be a well rusted engine.

After all that, then you can figure out the paperwork drill. Assume the plane has never been registered so the state (if applicable) will be looking for the original Van's Bill of Sale to get their tax bite. A long call with the local FSDO might be worth the time as well.

Carl
 
Are you thinking of buying this RV-8? or are you just curious about what it would take to get it inspected, registered and flying?

No air-frame logs for an airplane that's never flown is not a deal breaker. The engine is another story entirely.
 
Five years is not that long of a time span for an airplane, my wings sat in the living room for that amount of time. But like mentioned above, unless it is dirt cheap, cost of QB kit + core engine, maybe, but then a complete condition inspection and engine gone through. Then there is the paperwork???
 
If is does not have an airworthiness certificate, without builder's logs, it could be difficult to get certificated. You have to have some way of proving that it was amateur-built.
 
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I wouldn't walk/run away until you've had, as Carl suggested, a talk with your MIDO assuming the aircraft looks, in all respects, descent. A thorough pre-buy inspection by an RV-savvy A&P prior to discussing with the FSDO might make this a moot decision.
 
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Auburntsts said:
I wouldn't walk/run away until you've had, as Carl suggested, a talk with your FSDO assuming the aircraft looks, in all respects, descent. A thorough pre-buy inspection by an RV-savvy A&P prior to discussing with the FSDO might make this a moot decision.
Click to expand...

Actually the MIDO is responsible for all original airworthiness, not the FSDO.
 
Mel said:
Actually the MIDO is responsible for all original airworthiness, not the FSDO.
Click to expand...

Curious. Then why do we deal generally deal with FSDO's for initial issuance of an AWC and not MIDOs?
 
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I see money lots of money ......

1/ to be spent on obtaining and classifying records.

2/ Frame A and P to look over building techniques.

The engine I would value as core in regard to your purchase valuation unless something else tells you its worth. That way you wont be caught.

The metal and building if ok'd by a good A&P knowing the plane should be ok

In full disclosure I am a Canadian builder so may have missed many things regarding American homebuilt laws.

Still if the price is right and it can be registered.... why not?

Dave
 
Auburntsts said:
Curious. Then why do we deal generally deal with FSDO's for initial issuance of an AWC and not MIDOs?
Click to expand...

In a lot of areas, the MIDO has granted authority to FSDO's to handle certification of some categories of experimentals, but as Mel said, as the Manufacturing Inspection District Office they have first order authority over all first time issuance of airworthiness certificates (I presume under the premise that a first time issuance is after it has been Manufactured... whether in a factory or someones garage).
 
Auburntsts said:
Curious. Then why do we deal generally deal with FSDO's for initial issuance of an AWC and not MIDOs?
Click to expand...

The regulation has always been MIDO for original and FSDO for recurrent. Many years ago most MIDOs turned over Experimentals to the FSDO. In the past few years more and more MIDOs are taking back that function.

FSDOs are responsible for recurrent airworthiness and repairman certificate issuance.

OK, Scott types faster than I do!
 
dave4754 said:
Still if the price is right and it can be registered.... why not?
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As already mentioned, here in the U.S., the first requirement for certification is proof it meets the amateur built requires of eligibility.
Without being able to do that (and the info provide so far makes that sound difficult at best) then the condition of the build is a moot point.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
In a lot of areas, the MIDO has granted authority to FSDO's to handle certification of some categories of experimentals, but as Mel said, as the Manufacturing Inspection District Office they have first order authority over all first time issuance of airworthiness certificates (I presume under the premise that a first time issuance is after it has been Manufactured... whether in a factory or someones garage).
Click to expand...

Mel said:
The regulation has always been MIDO for original and FSDO for recurrent. Many years ago most MIDOs turned over Experimentals to the FSDO. In the past few years more and more MIDOs are taking back that function.

FSDOs are responsible for recurrent airworthiness and repairman certificate issuance.

OK, Scott types faster than I do!
Click to expand...


Thanks guys-- that explains it!! And I have corrected my post accordingly. I love the detailed and correct info you get on this site!
 
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The following is directly from FAA Order 8130.2H:

b. Statement of Eligibility. The applicant must submit a notarized FAA Form 8130-12,
Eligibility Statement, Amateur-Built Aircraft (refer to figure 4-7 of this order), certifying the
major portion was fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes.
(1) The form specifies that an amateur builder identify if commercial assistance was
used in the construction of the aircraft and identify the source of the assistance.
(2) Evidence and records must be available to support these statements and provided to
the FAA upon request.
(3) Records that are typically requested are listed in paragraph 459e of this order.

The order goes on to say that the inspector may ask questions about the build process in order to confirm that the applicant did indeed build the aircraft.
 
Perhaps if a surviving family member of the original builder could draft a statement describing the nature of the building process, that might help. Vans may be able to help by looking up who they sold the original emp kit to.

Bevan
 
Just to add to the pain, Bill of Sale. If you buy it, to register the FAA Registry will require a "chain of custody" from initial sale from Vans thru all owners until it got to you. Vans usually issues a Bill of Sale at, when requested, kit completion. If you can get the builder number, (it should be the serial number on the non-destructive data plate) call Vans and see if the original Bill of Sale has been issued and to who. If it hasn't been issued, Vans may require a Bill of Sale from the original buyer before issuing a Bill of Sale. Good Luck, Dan from Reno
 
Thank you EVERYONE!

I knew I would get some good information. I am doing research to come up with a number to offer the Chap that owns it. I spoke with him last year and his price was way to high. The build quality is good and I personally know the shop that did the final assembly.
I think it is getting ready to be put out on the ramp and I want to be ready if that in fact happens.

Thank you all again,
 
We have a similar problem with A kit from a different manufacture. My dad got it with a bill of sale from the previous owner that is not the builder. It has no link to the manufacture. Our problem is that they are out of business. So we have nothing.

I started with a call to Vic Syracuse. As usual he was very helpfull. He told me to call Oaklahoma City. They are the only ones that can help. Tell them what you have and they will tell you if they will register it and how to if so.

Yours will be easy. You can call and get plans. I cannot call factory and have been trying to buy used ones with no luck So we are donating it to a museum.

Defanantly glad that my project is from Vans.
 
Mel said:
The following is directly from FAA Order 8130.2H:

b. Statement of Eligibility. The applicant must submit a notarized FAA Form 8130-12,
Eligibility Statement, Amateur-Built Aircraft (refer to figure 4-7 of this order), certifying the
major portion was fabricated and assembled for educational or recreational purposes.
(1) The form specifies that an amateur builder identify if commercial assistance was
used in the construction of the aircraft and identify the source of the assistance.
(2) Evidence and records must be available to support these statements and provided to
the FAA upon request.
(3) Records that are typically requested are listed in paragraph 459e of this order.

The order goes on to say that the inspector may ask questions about the build process in order to confirm that the applicant did indeed build the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Mel, maybe you don't know this but i'll ask anyway... How does the FAA deal with a project that gets sold to a second (or maybe third) builder during it's life prior to completion? Can multiple people have worked on the project in serial, as "education or recreation" but decide it's not for them (or maybe one builder passes away) and pass it on to someone else? At the end of the day the airplane still is 51% amateur built, but maybe that's 20% by one person, 20% by another, 11% by another.

I'm guessing as long as there are some photos showing assembly along the way that this could still be registered and flown without too much trouble, although the final person who gets it done wouldn't be able to apply for the repairman's certificate. Is that right?
 
Snowflake said:
Mel, maybe you don't know this but i'll ask anyway... How does the FAA deal with a project that gets sold to a second (or maybe third) builder during it's life prior to completion? Can multiple people have worked on the project in serial, as "education or recreation" but decide it's not for them (or maybe one builder passes away) and pass it on to someone else? At the end of the day the airplane still is 51% amateur built, but maybe that's 20% by one person, 20% by another, 11% by another.
I'm guessing as long as there are some photos showing assembly along the way that this could still be registered and flown without too much trouble, although the final person who gets it done wouldn't be able to apply for the repairman's certificate. Is that right?
Click to expand...

Any number of people can build an amateur-built aircraft. It's just that the aircraft must be 51% amateur-built.
 
Snowflake said:
Mel, maybe you don't know this but i'll ask anyway... How does the FAA deal with a project that gets sold to a second (or maybe third) builder during it's life prior to completion? Can multiple people have worked on the project in serial, as "education or recreation" but decide it's not for them (or maybe one builder passes away) and pass it on to someone else? At the end of the day the airplane still is 51% amateur built, but maybe that's 20% by one person, 20% by another, 11% by another.

I'm guessing as long as there are some photos showing assembly along the way that this could still be registered and flown without too much trouble, although the final person who gets it done wouldn't be able to apply for the repairman's certificate. Is that right?
Click to expand...

Adding to what Mel reported, I just went through this. Got the airworthiness certificate for an RV-9A a week ago, a plane that a friend (RIP) started and I finished. Both of us are listed as builders on 8130-12, though since he isn't around anymore, I represented the aircraft to the DAR and I'm the listed manufacturer in the FAA records. Apart from the mental anguish of not having my friend around to see his dream come true, it was no big deal. I won't be applying for the repairman certificate, can't comment on that.
 
I believe anyone, but only one, of the builders may apply for the repairman certificate. The FAA reserves the right to approve or deny based on that person's knowledge.
 
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