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A family dilemma (help)

Steve Lutte

Member
I need some advice. I completed an RV7 last year and my 11 year old has helped with the project since he was 2 years old. He started, at 2 years old, just keeping me company in the shop and 9 years later he was helping attach the wings. He has all the simulator games and loves all things that fly. He has been up with me 6 times now and has gotten queasy every time. A few times he has thrown up. We both feel terrible about this situation. Has anyone else had this happen to them? And what did you end up doing about it? He is the best co-pilot i have ever had. Any advice would be great.

Thanks, Steve
 
Time... eventually most people adapt, especially kids.

While he is adapting you can help by ensuring you keep him looking outside, maneuver as gently as possible and fly when it is cool and smooth.

Don't fly right after a meal (unless you enjoy cleaning).

Drink plenty of water prior to flying.

Keep him looking outside

did I mention keep him looking outside?
 
Wooziness

>Keep him as cool as possible
>Fly only in smooth air until he acclimates
>Vent fresh air onto him
>Slow down if you encounter turbulence
>Always eat a good non-greasy meal including protein. Dry heaves worse.Do not fly hungry or thirsty.
>Meds??
>Fly prepared with sick sacs, smell good,etc just in case. Relieves anxiety.
>Never criticize or joke about the problem. Encourage him about next time will be better as you get used to flight

Note: there are people who never get over it. Perhaps a Doc can help if that seems to be the case
 
Fly every day with him for a while. Make sure he sits very high so he's not looking inside. Have the vents open and blowing at him. He'll get over it.
 
A pilot friend was having trouble, feeling queezy, during instrument training. He bought (I think around $70) a device ("Relief Band"?) which looks like a wrist watch, but actually stimulates a wrist nerve with a small electrical current. He swears by it! Apparently doesn't work for everyone, but does work for some.
Aeromedix.com has them:

http://www.aeromedixrx.com/rlp/reletex.htm?gclid=CLO_tPzw_rECFWjhQgodBBMAcA

Another thing you might try is to let him fly. I never feel sick when I fly, but if I'm in the right seat I can only take so many spins or lazy eights before I need to call a halt. I think many people are like this: drivers seldom get car sick, but passengers do. Not looking outside (e.g., reading a book) seems to make it worse for many people.
 
Don't be overly discouraged, this is rather common.
The majority of people can over come this over time. I personally know a couple people that had severe problems but worked through it (though neather of them did it as a child)
A couple of things I would recommend...

Make sure he is seated high enough that he can see well... directly out the front if possible.

Take short flights... head directly back to the airport at his first sensation of feeling bad (it may require some flights just around the pattern, and work up from there).

Try and only fly when it is most likely to be smooth air (early morning, late evening, stable air mass, etc.)

Begin teaching him, and get him flying the airplane as soon as possible (based on his comfort and confidence level). A person is much more tolerant of the sensations produced by maneuvering flight if they are causing them to happen them self. This will help him acclimate to it more quickly.

Most importantly, do not force it. Let him go at his own pace, but I am fairly confident that if he has the airplane bug as bad as you say, he will be able to over come this.
 
Kids motion sickness

Can he see outside? The kids need to be elevated to a point that allows them the same sight line an adult would have sitting in the same seat. This went along way in eliminating issues with my kids.
 
Cut the flight short at the very first hint of motion sickness; don't try to push through it -- you can't. Maybe just flights around the pattern at first. It's not just about looking outside, it's about remaining oriented. For example, he's looking out towards the right wingtip. You roll into a left turn. Once the tip obscures the horizon, he loses awareness of the bank angle. Are we banking further? Climbing? The brain will make a judgement. If this judgement turns out to not agree with reality when the horizon reappears, we become extremely disoriented. It's important to look around enough so that you always have a clear mental map of the plane's attitude. I struggled with the same problem while getting aerobatic training until I got these bits of advice. Good luck.
 
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Keep him flying

We have lots of students with airsick problems. We fly them as much as possible (in our case every day but you might not have that option).

On the first airsick episode, we really don't do anything except fly them again.
On the second, they get on airsick meds.
If they get sick while on the meds we send them to the bareny chair where they get spun while placing their head in all sorts of different positions.....

I know most of this is not an option for you, my point is though, keep him flying, he will eventually get over it. We use "sortie termination as a last option". Also, lots of people are saying "look outside", but he really needs to be looking at the horizon. Good luck!
 
A buddy of mine in UPT got really airsick fo his first probably 10-14 rides. He did the bareny chair, but what really helped was ginger pills and chewing gum while he flew. Now he always chews gum while flying. He's a F-15E driver at Mountain home now.
 
When I first was learning to fly, I got airsick pretty easily. Eating a couple pieces of crystallized ginger helped a bit, but just simply more flights eventually got me over it.
 
Only got a little quezzy once during my PPL training while doing hood combined with unusual attitude training. My instructor always joked bananas taste the same going down as up, never tried it though.

Hope your son after spending most of his life helping you gets to point he can enjoy it.
 
First, don't "feel bad". Bad mojo feeds more of the same. Second, get it out of your head that '...it is because he is a kid.' I'm experienced from which I speak. We've flown a lot of hours and I WILL be the first to puke if not actively in control. Make sure his head is fully outside the cockpit and flying the airplane. Short flights with flying exercises, then successfully back on the ground talking about next time.

I just can't say enough about how perfectly doable and enjoyable it can be to fly an RV with/by someone that is completely prone to motion sickness. I am the person in the back seat of any car for any time over about 10min that is looking for the sick sack. Zooming a map on the ipad in the passenger seat of the car, or airplane, with my head down, yeah, no way, unless you want to have to clean off the windshield. When I was doing ppl training in the late '80s in a C150 in south Texas in the summer, yeah, I struggled on the cross countries. Now, we have two pilots onboard, fly IFR all across the country often, and everything is fine... If there are heavy bumps or real turbulence, "I have the airplane". If I'm safety pilot for the other working under the hood (ifr training) for more than about an hour, "I have the airplane for a few minutes". When training formation rejoins and I'm safety pilot for someone else, In the break (two G level turn), my head must be straight forward during the entry and first two seconds, not following the target. Control is key. When my brain is actually controlling, all of the above depressing states almost completely go away and I become a competent pilot in all situations. Over a thousand hours later with a commercial and instrument, and soon to be glider ratings. Don't spend another moment fretting it, hatch a plan, get excited, and get to work.
 
bummer

is he "riding" or flying the plane?
Verns post is a good one IMHO.
FWIW, I still get woosey when "riding" in a (small) plane. 35 years ago, I had the same thing happen to me. It pissed me off, so I kept going up. When "I" finally started to "control" the airplane, it disappeared. Hopefully the same will happen for your son... Let him fly it..
BTW, after almost 20,000 hours in the air, if I'm not manipulating the controls, I'm occasionally still a terrible passenger... ;-)

Dmadd
 
When I was growing up flying with my Dad in the Stinson 108-3 I was always seated on one of the old really thick life jackets so I could see over the glare shield and at any opportunity I was flying, never once did I get sick. Now when I take friends up that start to feel a little queazy I just tell em to take over. Instantly they feel better because they're not thinking about being sick but about flying a plane, how much trouble can you really get into in a 172 anyways?
 
Greasy Cheese Burgers

When I started flying competition aerobatics, I used to marvel at how my instructor (Rob Holland... look him up on You Tube) would never get sick. "Dude" he says to me. "eat a greasy cheese burger before you go up". Well, I did, and I wouldn't get sick if I did. Years later, he told me he was just kidding. It was the power of suggestion that did it. Now I have a small Roast Beef hero with lettuce, tomato and mayonaise. It works. Best of luck to the both of you, he is a lucky kid.
 
I hope that age/time/flying experience help him get over it entirely...for what it's worth, I was really prone to motion sickness as a kid myself. My father and his friends would take me flying in different planes, and I almost always got sick. I got sick sitting in the back seat of a car often.

*Eventually*, I got over it (mostly...aerobatics will still make me queasy, because I so rarely am with someone who does them, and don't have aerobatic training myself yet).

So...short flights, lots of fresh air, sit him up high enough to see outside, and give him the controls as much as possible...and a positive attitude about the whole thing helps, too, which you both seem to have.

He'll get there...good luck and have fun together!
 
I can't give you any suggestions about the air sickness.

But I can tell you about the end result. My son spent hours in the shop with me as I bucked rivets and ran wire. He used my wing as a kitchen table to eat microwave pizza, and built RC planes and cars on his own workbench while I built the RV on the shop floor.

6C679F9A-15BC-43FD-AB8E-84C131CBF8AA-500-000000460CD8FAFE.jpg


It has been three years and over 400 hours since I completed Phase One in my RV-7. My son has flown about 350 of those hours with me. We fly cross country. We fly aerobatics. We fly formation. We fly out for a hamburger. Yesterday we flew out to Roche Harbor and walked the boat docks for an hour. He spends so much time with me, that sometimes I sneak away to the airport just so I can get some solo flight time!

F7CFD681-9011-4906-92E4-373031DF2B70-500-000000471B01F2A4.jpg


Next week he turns 19, and moves out of the house. :( I'm losing my co-pilot.

You're going to love having your son share this time with you. When (not "If") he gets over it, you guys are going to have a blast.:D
 
Another thought

Some people are helped by a detailed education about the inner ear, and how it sends "conflicting" signals when flying.

A friend of mine was always queasy when flying. I didn't know it at the time, but he finally told me about it. I told him it was very normal for beginner flyers, and explained about the semi-circular canals in the inner ear, and how centrifugal (centripetal) force causes a conflict between the signals from the eye and the inner ear.

After that, he got used to the sensations very quickly. Education can help!
 
We have lots of students with airsick problems. We fly them as much as possible (in our case every day but you might not have that option).

On the first airsick episode, we really don't do anything except fly them again.
On the second, they get on airsick meds.
If they get sick while on the meds we send them to the bareny chair where they get spun while placing their head in all sorts of different positions.....

I know most of this is not an option for you, my point is though, keep him flying, he will eventually get over it. We use "sortie termination as a last option". Also, lots of people are saying "look outside", but he really needs to be looking at the horizon. Good luck!

Jeremy,

As you know, your sister squadron inherited one of our students that I would classify as having borderline severe airsickness tendencies. We did have limited success with getting him to suppress this tendency by insisting that he remain in control of the aircraft and to concentrate at the task at hand. I believe his airsickness was a product of both nervous apprehension and motion induced factors. Hopefully he has been able to overcome those issues.

In the case of the OP of this thread, as per some of the prior recommendations, perhaps start with an overview briefing of the flight, keep it short, smooth air, and give him a little stick time.

Regards,
Tom
 
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Aeromedix relief band

Now called "Reletex Anti-Nausea Neuromodulating Device".

We got one for our son who was air sick every time we flew, even putting him in the front and boosting him so he could see out. With the "device" he could dial in the amount of stimulation he felt he needed which seemed to give him control over the situation. I can't remember him ever getting sick once we got the device. Over time he got to a point where he didn't need it.

It may have been psychological, but it worked.

No interest in the company....
 
Fly smoothly for a purpose

The body does not like surprises. I have had a lot of people (young and old)ride with me and I have NEVER had a single person get sick except my father one time when I did a high panked turn about a point with the intention of showing him something in his home town of Columbus, Indiana. As soon as I became aware of the situation I leveled out and flew to level to some place around Bloomington I believe and he never had a problem again.

There is a personal commitment fear in this situation as well. In 1956 as a young airman riding in a backward facing seat in a C-97 to Tokyo near Mt. Fugi we encountered tremendous down drafts. I was 19 and internally loved airplanes though my background did not provide access to that world. When I got sick I was barely able to keep from vomitting and I feared that I was deficient in some physical way from doing what I really wanted to do if my life ever provided the opportunity. I learned that I was just like everyone else over time but if it bothered me that much at 19 that I still remember the thought at 75 you can imagine the how crushing this might be to an 11 year old that has been so intensly exposed to aviation that he may consider it the most important thing in his life. I think flying smoothly with a purpose to specific destinations without throwing the issue into his face along the way, or any other time, might help in your flying together. If he has a fear of getting sick he will have to get over it himself with time and experience - he can't be talked out of it.

Bob Axsom
 
I can't give you any suggestions about the air sickness.

But I can tell you about the end result. My son spent hours in the shop with me as I bucked rivets and ran wire. He used my wing as a kitchen table to eat microwave pizza, and built RC planes and cars on his own workbench while I built the RV on the shop floor.

6C679F9A-15BC-43FD-AB8E-84C131CBF8AA-500-000000460CD8FAFE.jpg


It has been three years and over 400 hours since I completed Phase One in my RV-7. My son has flown about 350 of those hours with me. We fly cross country. We fly aerobatics. We fly formation. We fly out for a hamburger. Yesterday we flew out to Roche Harbor and walked the boat docks for an hour. He spends so much time with me, that sometimes I sneak away to the airport just so I can get some solo flight time!

F7CFD681-9011-4906-92E4-373031DF2B70-500-000000471B01F2A4.jpg


Next week he turns 19, and moves out of the house. :( I'm losing my co-pilot.

You're going to love having your son share this time with you. When (not "If") he gets over it, you guys are going to have a blast.:D

You are one lucky man. I have 3 kids, 27, 22, and 11. The oldest two never took interest in the build. The airplane was invisible to them in the garage.

My 11 year old however insists on being my first passenger which should be tomorrow. I have one last chance with her as a flying buddy. Wish me luck!

And by the way, she does get car sick but I've never had her get air sick the few times we've flown. Just to be safe, I'm picking up a couple of sick sacks at lunch today.
 
I have bro in law who gets sick unless he is helping with controls...also he can drive 100's of miles,but as a passenger will be nauses in 1 mile
TomcatRV4
yes paid 2012 dues
 
Another thing you might try is to let him fly. I never feel sick when I fly, but if I'm in the right seat I can only take so many spins or lazy eights before I need to call a halt. I think many people are like this: drivers seldom get car sick, but passengers do. Not looking outside (e.g., reading a book) seems to make it worse for many people.

+1 for me.
 
Ice

Put ice in a baggie. Place it on forehead, then back of neck, then inner wrists, then repeat. Maybe 10 sec each spot. Will greatly reduce nausea. This will also aid in recovery of someone who has already gotten airsick.
 
That kid was me.

Spent a lot of time on a swing set to help get used to the sensations. Eyes open and closed. My son also needed a little experience before he got comfortable in light chop. We both still get a little qweezy on long hot bumpy flights. A lot of this stuff in an undesired "normal" imho.
 
meds work

Pretreat with meclazine type antinausia meds. They are very effective. Try half a dose after a while, and as mentioned, your son will aclimatize, and eventually not need the meds.
 
Reduce Yaw

I would echo what everyone else has said and add this bit of advice. I find that working the rudder pedals to stay in coordinated flight at all times really helps with people prone to air sickness. Yawing back and forth seems to be a trigger for nausea. I fly a tandem (RV-4) so it's really important for the rear seat passenger who is a good distance from the CG. I'd imagine it has an effect in the side-by-sides as well.

Ted
RV-4, IO-360, CS Prop
 
C-bands

The pressure point wrist bands are called C-bands.... available at any pharmacy for a few bucks. They have a button that you locate over the nerve in the wrist.

They also have a psy. effect alieviating the fear of getting sick.
give 'em a try!

But the best advice is to let him fly the plane. That seems to always work.
Jim
RV-9A
N571DF 250hrs.
 
Get him a pack of Beemans gum and teach him to fly! Got me through Navy flight school 25 years ago, sick as a dog every flight for first 20 or so. Fly him as much as you can and don't let him get discuraged.
 
I have fairly severe motion sickness, but built up my tolerance over time. It was caused by nervousness (nervous I would get sick) combined with motion. Even today, I get sick when flying in others planes. In my RV, I can handle moderate turbulence indefinitely with no issue. Some items to try:

Slowly increase flights with time. Let your son know the flight will be short, and you will be on the ground before he gets sick (eliminates nervousness). Slowly increase times and start doing a few maneuvers (steep turns, stalls, etc) right before you land to build tolerance. Waiting till he gets sick makes it worse.

Have him take dramamine or whatever works for him. Slowly reduce dose to zero over time.

Fly on smooth days, keep him cold, and let him fly as much as possible.

I tried the electronic band towards the end, and never got sick, but I'm not sure if theband helped, or I had already built up the tolerance.

If he is nervous about flying, time will solve that. It was helpful for me to do a lot of stalls,unusual attitudes, etc (in very short flights) to build confidence and eliminate nervousness.

Finally, keep your feet on the rudder pedals to reduce tail wag.

Aaron
 
Just some thoughts to add to all the other ideas already presented.

Humor.

Background. The Naval Aerospace and Operational Medical Institute in Pensacola trains about spatial disorientation with a device call a mulit-station disorientation device. The large device hold 12 indivials at a time, each in their own individual gondola. It spins around like a merry go round with a few 'extra' motions. The device had a major vomit problem with the student Naval aviators. The solution turned out to be humor. They introduced a very hocky Star Treck theme and the vomit rate decreased very very much. When I rode it they still gave our plastic bags, but very few were needed/used.

I let my 5 year old take over the controls as soon as we were at a safe altitude out of the pattern. Before that her 'job' was to spot other aircraft - keep her eyes out of the aircraft and her frame of reference the horizon.

Cool smooth air, steady smooth control inputs, announcing intentions before doing, and a relaxed humerous attitude go a long way.

I've used the humor trick several time with people on the edge and it has worked every time so far.

Hope this helps, Dave
 
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dilemma...

Steve, believe it or not, I got over my air sickness after riding the roller coaster several times at the amusement park. After a couple of rides, I learned to relax.
All the best,
Gary H.
 
Sporty's catalog sells Marezene

Marezene. Best stuff I have ever shared with individuals that get seasick/airsick. Sporty's has this in their catalog. This does not give a person that dry mouth drowsy feeling at all (avoid Dramamine). It takes affect in less than 5 minutes, even when one is feeling queazy. I have given this to individuals in 20' rough seas in the Pacific and it works. I have been blessed and never had motion sickness but I am convinced it is because I am operating the equipment and it keeps my mind active on the task at hand.

Pat Garboden
RV9A N942PT (reserved)
Waiting for FAA inspection
VAF dues paid 2012
 
Lots of Good Advice - Here's a Summary

Don't fly on an empty stomach
Keep properly hydrated
Fly in the morning or evening when the air is "smoother"
Keep the fresh air blowing
Keep the hot sun off the noggin
Avoid abrupt maneuvers (no showing off)
Keeps turns at standard rate or less
Climbs and descents at 500 fpm or less
Explain/announce each maneuver beforehand
No stalls
Keep the eyes outside as much as possible
Focus on the horizon-it's the most stable picture
Let your passenger handle the controls
Meds and devices - everyone responds differently - experiment.

Most importantly, make sure they're not afraid to tell you they don't feel good, then land as soon as possible. The brain is getting mixed messages from the eyes and the postural senses and the only way to effectively stop it quickly Is to get both feet on the ground. Lying down won't help much unless at least one foot is on the floor and the lights are on. BTW, the latter advice comes from a leading Naval Flight Surgeon and is also a "cure" for the dreaded "bed spins".
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
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