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RV-7A Should I sell?

ColoCardinal

Well Known Member
I was in the final wiring & debugging of the panel stage of construction of my RV-7A when I suffered the loss of my medical last year. This is the second loss of my medical for this reason so a reissuance isn?t in the cards. I?m totally unsure of what path I should take at this point. I have about $100,000.00 invested in this project.

If you were me (be grateful that you are not), would you sell the project, finish it and then sell it (possibly paint to order) or finish & keep it in the hope that Congress will someday save the day and let me fly without the medical? I also have a Cessna Cardinal that now sits in the hangar (and the hangar). Currently the RV is safe, warm in my basement shop.
:confused:
 
I'd finish the project. You'll get a lot more for a finished, flying aircraft. Something is going to give with respect to the 3rd Class Medical and there's a good chance you will be able to fly your RV yourself. If not, you could probably find someone to fly the Phase 1 requirements.
 
The common wisdom seems to be that people who build (and complete) airplanes tend to enjoy building as much (or more) than flying. You got this far, so I'm guessing you enjoy the building, even with the uncertainty of flying it. I'd say keep enjoying the build, take your time since there's no hurry now, and when you're done, there's a good chance there will be progress on medical reform. And if not, you still have the satisfaction of seeing it through to completion, and knowing that YOU built an airplane. And you will get more money out of it if you sell, probably.

I think if I lost my medical, after being extremely bummed out, I might enjoy building even more, since I wouldn't be anxious to fly it as well. I would try to build that perfect show-plane, even if it took 20 years.

Good luck!

Chris
 
I have seen this plane and it is nice. Quality construction. Carl, you are so close, I would finish it first. It may be hard to get motivated, but worth it in the end. There is a great bunch of builders in your area, so maybe one of them would finish it for you.

Best of luck either way my friend!
 
There is an old running story for those who've been around RV's for awhile...goes something like this: "The first flight of your RV is a $35K flight"...because if you try to sell it now it's a pile of parts that you WILL get less than new price for (probably about $.60-.75 on the dollar) and absolutely zero for labor. AFTER the first flight, we're kind of lucky with RV's in that you might get back close to dollar for dollar on the parts, and maybe even a few pennies for your labor.

Selling it as a project vs. selling it as a flying airplane (in your case specifically) could mean the difference of MANY thousands of dollars - even if it is left unpainted.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Did you get denied, or just let it expire? No need to answer here, but it makes a difference in your future prospects.

If you got denied, you're most likely toast. So far I haven't heard of any of the proposed medical changes that would allow someone to fly again after having been denied a medical, even if that medical is no longer needed. But you never know. Although unusual when dealing with government agencies, once in a while a gift drops from the skies that didn't come from the empennage of a pigeon.

If you let your medical expire and haven't been denied, there seems to be much more hope. We won't know until at least April what the FAA is going to propose, but I'm hopeful enough that I (with no medical, and unlikely ever to be able to get even an SI) am still building instead of selling. I'm just holding off on some decisions (like engine and prop) until I see what the rule changes look like. Of course there's a chance they'll look bad enough I have to pull the plug and sell it, but until we know I'll keep plugging along.

The others are correct, if you sell it now you're going to take a significant loss. If I were in your shoes I'd finish it up, let someone else fly off Phase 1 and then look at selling it -- if you have to. The fat lady has not started singing quite yet.
 
When you are this close ... complete it ... if you do not have to put a lot more money into it ... why not finish it ? If it was me I would at least get real satisfaction out of having completed a plane ... Loss of a medical can happen to anyone at any time .. Sure some medical conditions ‘could’ be minimised by change in life style .. but even so .. you can never be 100% sure no matter what you do ...

Also ask yourself this .... What will you do with your time if you did not spent it on the RV ? Would you get more personal satisfaction out of doing something else (work / playing golf / fishing ... or whatever ????)

No question that you will get more for a finished plane .. that something ‘almost finished’ ... assuming you do not put a price on you labour ...

Best of luck – enjoy life ... in whatever shape or form it may take ..
 
Option 1:
------------
Finish it.
Call your government representative often, asking them to support 3rd class medical reform (Pilot Protection Act?) and have your friends do the same.
Enjoy the satisfaction of a completed project.

Option 2:
-----------
Quit now and always regret selling your baby.
 
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Thanks guys. The consensus is clear - finish it!
I'll try to get a little enthusiasm back and see how it goes. The one thought that I had with selling it with some work still required was that the purchaser could then apply for the mechanic ticket. Guess that's not worth much!
As I mentioned, it is at the electrical programming / debugging phase which is what I like the least. That's probably part of the "wind is gone from the sails" feeling I have. I was very much looking forward to painting it though. I like the artistic aspect and have some experience.
Thanks again,
Carl
 
Finish it

Finish it, keep it, if you can't get a medical find another local pilot who will fly with you as PIC. You'll have pride in knowing you completed a magnificent flying machine. You can get them to share expenses too.
 
When I was 20 years old, an aging pilot at the airport had decided flying was getting more than he could safely handle. Shortly afterwards lost his medical. He lamented that he didn' t want to give up flying. After some thought he proposed that I fly as PIC. I did the takeoffs and landings and he flew the rest. I got flight time he got to fly his own aircraft. He kept flying this way for years until his final days. A happy, safe pilot.
 
Alternatives

I was in the final wiring & debugging of the panel stage of construction of my RV-7A when I suffered the loss of my medical last year. This is the second loss of my medical for this reason so a reissuance isn?t in the cards. I?m totally unsure of what path I should take at this point. I have about $100,000.00 invested in this project.

If you were me (be grateful that you are not), would you sell the project, finish it and then sell it (possibly paint to order) or finish & keep it in the hope that Congress will someday save the day and let me fly without the medical? I also have a Cessna Cardinal that now sits in the hangar (and the hangar). Currently the RV is safe, warm in my basement shop.
:confused:

Hey Carl,

Think out of the box. There is a guy at an airport i fly out of that doesnt have a medical....but his wife has gotten hers and they go on great adventures together:). She is legal PIC and they share flying....a win win! Losing your medical does not mean you lost your aeronautical knowledge & experience....many adventures may be ahead for you in the magic carpet you created....it just may take some creative strategy! Best wishes:)
 
Carl,

I am in the same boat with a 9A I am just finishing up. I looked long and hard at selling about 8 months ago but found very few buyers that were interested in building. Most wanted a ready to fly bird and those who were interested "as-Is" were looking for a fire sale kind of price that would not even come close to covering the investment. I opted to finish the bird and have a fellow RV pilot conduct the phase one fly off and then I will offer it for sale. I have come to believe that the DOT is playing games with the 3rd class medical NPRM and will only move on it when forced to do so by some authority with sufficient clout. I have not lost complete hope in some 3rd class medical revision but it is greatly diminished. So much so that I have started construction of an LSA compliant airplane to support my flying habit. Hope this helps!

PS Have a good look at the additional pilpot program. It may offer some hope of getting to fly the airpale a little.
 
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I would finish it my friend. If you are like me, building was the best therapy for all the stresses of life. When I was in the shop, everything seemed better. There are many options for you to potentially keep flying, but even if you can't, having a plane out there that is flying because you built it, well, that is something that will make you smile for a long time. Keep the faith!
 
All is good advice Carl, keep your head up because we are all in that same boat one bad exam and out the door. I have had a SI for years and than was able to get my medical back and just did my new one in the first week of September than back in the hospital and now there is no way I'll ever get it back now. My RV8A was just finished in the end of Aug but to this date it's still on the ground. My buddy has a 9A and we had been finishing his at the same time as mine and he has lost his at the same time as me. I told him all of the things that everybody has said and were going to fly both of our planes some day. So just don't give up hope because that is what we are going to do, there is no other way other than to quit and that's not happening! Somethings gotta give.:eek: Scott
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/bgejllooukyxred/AAANX8-avSPzWfs8TQodromwa
 
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Finish and maybe get buyer now.

If you get buyer now, you'll get more for labor to finish project. You may also get cost of materials for upgrades you would not otherwise install (glass panel, etc). You could also build to point buyer could customize (paint & interior)

Good luck!
Corey
 
finish and fly it anyway

I am just saying, as long as you take care to not put anyone else in harms way. fly it
 
Carl, I wish you to go back to flying asap. However, if you want to sell, I'd be more interested in purchasing the plane as it is now (unfinished), and pay top money for it. Please let me know.
 
Carl,
Read the REGS closely. If you've lost your medical, you can't be licensed as a sport pilot, and most likely when they eventually eliminate the Third class medical certificate for normal category aircraft, you won't qualify then either - unless you fail to disclose. I assume, since you said you lost your medical, that in effect, you've disclosed a medically disqualifying condition. If you have a medically disqualifying condition, you can't fly until either eliminating the condition that got you there, or getting a waiver from the FAA (ask me how I know). If you fail to disclose a medically disqualifying condition, you are in violation of FAR 61.53. How would they know??? Well, if insurance claims are filed, for instance - regardless of HIPPA laws, you will be subject to discovery (due to the greater good....). Failure to disclose a medically disqualifying condition is subject to FAA enforcement action - revocation of license (possibly forever), fines, and depending on what type of commercial flying you may have done - jail time. The FAA takes this seriously.

My advise - either sell the airplane and find another passion, or get yourself right with the FAA aeromedical group. Get whatever waivers you need, correct the discrepancy, and get your third class medical back. Once you have it, and they eliminate the third class, you're good to go no matter what happens, until you can't even get a drivers license.

If you've failed to disclose, posting it on here is not a good idea. You've essentially disclosed, and flying after they eliminate the Third Class medical is not an option for you.

It sounds like you enjoy the building and fabricating part of your project. That is wonderful. There are so many people that can't, or don't want to do that - they just want to fly. Help them finish their project and then fly with them and give them the benefit of your expertise. There isn't anybody that can resolve initial problems better than the guy that was intimately involved in the creation of the airplane. Keeping yourself involved will be instrumental in getting back in to it when things change for you medically. This isn't just a hobby for many of us - its a way of life. Don't give up.
 
Read the REGS closely. If you've lost your medical, you can't be licensed as a sport pilot, and most likely when they eventually eliminate the Third class medical certificate for normal category aircraft, you won't qualify then either - unless you fail to disclose. I assume, since you said you lost your medical, that in effect, you've disclosed a medically disqualifying condition. If you have a medically disqualifying condition, you can't fly until either eliminating the condition that got you there, or getting a waiver from the FAA (ask me how I know). If you fail to disclose a medically disqualifying condition, you are in violation of FAR 61.53.
Scott, just to clarify -- if his medical was denied or revoked, you're correct. If not, though, then it's between him and his doctor whether he's fit to fly with Sport Pilot privileges. The regs say a pilot can't act as PIC if he or she "knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." That's not the same as knowing or suspecting you can't get an FAA medical certificate. He's under no obligation to report anything (other than a DUI) until his next medical application.
 
IF I was YOU? I WAS you as a check of the archives will show.

You're going to find a couple of things here. There'll will be lots of people who will tell you what you should do. But, really, you already have the answer in your heart.

The key is to be sure you have all the possibilities clear. When I lost my medical, I depended on the EAA medical group -- which basically said, "you're finished flying. Sorry." AOPA medical folks -- they said a delay of at least 6 months then not guaranteed.

There were the usual suggestions to pay a former AME $150 an hour to take your case.

The best value I got was here on VAF where one person forwarded me an aeromedical bulletin from 2007 which had the solution it it. And another guy sent me a note who had a friend who knew the regional flight surgeon and interceded so I could get some unbiased answers.

Once I had that information, I stopped trying to sell the plane (which in itself is a PITA because there are lot of knuckle dragging "bottom feeders" out there interested in ripping you off), and worked on trying to get the medical back.

We're aviators. We want to fly. That's the default setting in our DNA.

The people who tell us to get another passion don't get it. We don't have another passion. This is our passion.

When I was you, I wanted to make sure I'd exhausted all possible avenues for getting a special issuance or getting a 3rd class back. Until then, the only other thing you can do is make a bad decision.

Beyond that, you can still fly your plane with a safety pilot. If you need one, you let me know, and I'll fly to wherever you are and be yours.
 
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RV7A should I sell?

Thanks for all of the support guys. So you know, I've not been denied a medical and would like to keep it that way. I can fly Light Sport but my wife and I have used our plane as a travel tool as well as as an end in itself. It's been a way of life and an LSA can't fill that role very well. If my wife ever gives a real effort to getting her ticket I'll have a full time safety pilot and all will be well. If not, it will take an act of Congress to get me flying again as I'm convinced that the FAA is not on our side on the medical issue.
Until then, I'll work on getting the RV off of the ground and hope that the rules change or someone comes along who wants to take this over. They'll never get a better chance to do so little work yet qualify for the repairman certificate.
Carl
 
Carl
Got your PM and thank you. I understand first handed as with a lot of the other fellows do and empathize with you. The good news for me was my plane flew for the maiden voyage yesterday afternoon with a friend. Now I have a lot of adjustments and tweaks to adjust and keep me busy till the next flight. On Thursday morning I received my repairman's cert. Friend is looking for a DAR and trying to finish his plane. He is going to do the additional pilot program so he can get time in his. My test buddy wants me to go with him so I can get some time also. I say please don't stop believing that you can't fly cause one day it will happen before you know it.:)
 
There are two possible avenues that I know of to receive help specifically for getting your medical back. One is called Pilot Medical Solutions, Inc. They charge $800 initially for their interface with the FAA on your behalf. Then they charge $700 for phase II when they launch their 'action plan' to get your medical back. Phas III is $500, if needed, for ongoing certification issues.

The other avenue I'm familiar with (and im sure there are others) is through the ALPA aeromedical group in Denver called Aviation Medical Advisory Service (AMAS). They provide a similar service for current and former ALPA members, and they also charge for their services. This is what these companies do and they know what data and forms the FAA needs and can implement a proactive timeline for medical recertification, if that's what you're looking for.

You don't have to disclose anything to the FAA until you decide to exercise the privileges of your certificate after suffering a medically disqualifying condition/event. Guidance on what that means can be found on the FAA website. You should also read FAR 61.53 and use your own judgement.
 
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