Lycoming to ECI major change?

If a currently certificated expermental aircraft has a Lycoming engine and then is replaced with a different manufacturer engine of the same type. Is it considered a Major change, Minor change, or a replacement.

For example replacing a Lycoming parellel valve vertical sump engine with a Contenental Motors San Antonio (Titan) engine which is built with parts that are PMA replacemens for the Lycoming.

Weasel

According to my FSDO the engine is the dataplate. You can build an entire engine with PMA/FAA approved parts from another vendor and still have an engine that meets the type certificate for installation on a type certified product (airplane). I see no reason to think that installing an engine made up of PMA/FAA parts would be a Major Alteration.

In addition, other than being prudent during your initial operation, I do not think that you would need to take the aircraft out of phase 2 operations. This is simply maintenance, though of a rather far reaching kind.

I am not a DAR, however. Mel, what say you?

Why not Phase 1?

Whether it is classified "major" or not, I would want to stay close to home and solo for 5 hours anyway with a new engine installation. Break it in, monitor cooling and fuel/oil use, check periodically for leaks, etc. Build faith in it.

longline said:

According to my FSDO the engine is the dataplate. You can build an entire engine with PMA/FAA approved parts from another vendor and still have an engine that meets the type certificate for installation on a type certified product (airplane). I see no reason to think that installing an engine made up of PMA/FAA parts would be a Major Alteration.

In addition, other than being prudent during your initial operation, I do not think that you would need to take the aircraft out of phase 2 operations. This is simply maintenance, though of a rather far reaching kind.

I am not a DAR, however. Mel, what say you?

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Your explanation is exactly the way I would understand it.

KatieB said:

Whether it is classified "major" or not, I would want to stay close to home and solo.

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Katie I would plan on spending a lot maybe even more than 5 hrs checking, break-in, etc but I don't want the restrictions and hassle to through the FAA who clearly at my local FISDO would not want the bother. On a side note. I converted an airplane one time from a 2 cylinder 2 cycle 70 HP liquid cooled engine and a ground adjustable composite propeller to a VW conversion 4 cylinder 4 cycle 85 HP air cooled engine with a fixed pitch wood propeller.

I explained all this in full detail to the Local FISDO. There response was "I would not call that a Major change. We call a major change when someone changes from a reciprocating engine to turbine or fixed pitch to constant speed. You should just enter the changes in the log book as a minor change or alteration and go fly" Now honestly I spent many many hrs flying very close to the airport and checking on the engine and installation a lot closer than the requirements would have been for a phase I test. I got the feeling I was wasting there time. Btw I printed there response in writing and stapled it into the log book.


Moderator: sorry guys ....I somehow got the same question going in two separate threads. You can combine them if necessary

A different manufacturer does not matter. Sounds like you did a "replacement", not a change. As already stated, flight test close to home would be prudent, but not phase I.
If you made a significant changed to W&B, changed prop to another model, etc. then it might be a good idea to return to phase I.

Weasel said:

Katie I would plan on spending a lot maybe even more than 5 hrs checking, break-in, etc but I don't want the restrictions and hassle to through the FAA who clearly at my local FISDO would not want the bother.

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Good. I just had to mention that because you'd be amazed how many customers we've had that don't think anything of taking a new airplane or newly rebuilt engine and blasting off over the mountains or whatever just because "it's new, what can go wrong."

I think the main issue would be if you went to a different compression for more power. If the power is the same and you are still FP or CS and still Carb'ed or Injected, then it's a replacement.

When I changed out my O-290 for the O-360 it required a five hour Phase I. Switching like for like should include a test period but a formal five hour Phase I isn't required. Although, as mentioned above, it is a good idea.

With new engines, if they make it past 10 hours, they should make it to TBO. In other words, watch out for infant mortality.