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Empennage Kit

dweyant

Well Known Member
I'm getting closer to ordering my empanage kit. Hopefully get it ordered in the next month.

I still need to do a little more research, but I think I've just about decided on going with the 9A over the 14. As much as I like the idea of a bigger plane, I don't think I really need it, and I really like the fuel burn and speed of the 9A.

Anyway, is there anything I need to decide when I order the empanage kit? I have decided I want electric trim, so I will order that, is there any other decisions that I need to make before I order, or shortly into construction?

Thanks,

-Dan
 
Dan,

Order the kit. You've made the only two decisions I think are needed before starting the empennage; manual or electric trim and tail dragger or nose gear. You're good to go and my encouragement is to get started!

The sooner you start building, the sooner you'll start flying the 9A, and you will love the plane. It handles extraordinarily well and the economy is beginning to startle me. I've only had mine 8 days now and my only regret is why I didn't do this years ago.

Others may have different opinions but my suggestion is build the airframe and make the serious panel decisions when you're working on the canopy. There's no need to rush.
 
Dan,

You're fine. Get building!

Personally, I'm finding more decisions being made as I'm doing my wings. But I'm one of those guys who likes to have everything planned and set "on paper", in terms of avionics, lighting, etc. That way I can pick up deals on parts as I build, if I see deals. You might have some fuel system considerations to make come wing time. But that's a few months down the road. Get going on the tail!
 
Get going

Love the 9a

You can't start too soon. Don't know your age but again you can't start too soon. I stated at 61! Building is way fun, but takes time!

Next consideration is keep flying! I've found time building detracts from flying time.

Next the riviting is talked about a lot, but all the post riveting stuff is where the complexity comes in.

Me: About to get the finishing kit and the avionics. Looks something like an airplane. Running out of room in my backyard shop.

Enjoy

Dan J
 
Order the 9A tailkit and make sure to include the small 1oz proseal kit (from the miscelaneous section of the online catalog). You will need it for the rudder.
 
Oh boy? Why nine? You will be poor forever right after first flight get RV10 or 8... :D
Jokes aside order the tail you will have plenty of time to reorder other stuff.
 
You will need to make a decision very soon whether to prime the interior parts of the empennage (and the rest of the plane) and consider the preparation (alodine, etc.) if you do decide to prime.

Not trying to start primer wars, but the OP should peruse the VAF section on primering to get some background before he makes the decision.
 
You will need to make a decision very soon whether to prime the interior parts of the empennage (and the rest of the plane) and consider the preparation (alodine, etc.) if you do decide to prime.

Not trying to start primer wars, but the OP should peruse the VAF section on primering to get some background before he makes the decision.

How soon into the empanage construction do I need to worry about priming?

-Dan
 
My suggestion is don't prime unless you live within 50 miles of the ocean. Most of the parts in the kit are alclad - but not all. The alclad provides some corrosion protection. When the plane is built, give it a corrosion-x treatment every 4 or 5 years.

I know others will disagree - and I primed most of my plane with a NAPA self etching primer. It adds weight but it isn't needed. The corrosion efficacy is debatable. My 1974 Cherokee is pushing 40 years old and lots of it has no corrosion protection and it isn't corroding into oblivion. YMMV but I think the risks are over-blown, the benefits over-stated, and there are crazy, insane, dare-devils like Sam Buchanan on this board who fly planes without primer.
 
Definitely agree that priming is one of those areas you'll just have to decide what's best for yourself. Take into account where you live, where the plane will be housed most of the time, etc.

Personally, living in southern Ohio, I don't have to worry about salty air. So I'm just taking a bit of a conservative route. I'm only priming, with NAPA self-etching rattle can primer, anything that gets badly scratched (thankfully not much), and the mating surfaces where parts will meet when riveted. Depending on my mood after riveting a rivet line, whether I'm in a good or bad mood, I'll go back over and lightly spray on some primer over the rivets and immediate surrounding area, just to protect any light scratching or rubbing the bucking bar did.

But those are all decisions that you'll just have to make yourself, make an educated guess at best if you're not sure, and just start building.
 
you will have plenty of time to reorder other stuff.

Ah, C'mon Vlad! :D I had to place an order with Van for THIS ONE ITEM (the proseal). It drove me nuts to pay that much shipping for a $9 item. It jarred against my frugal (read pilot) sensibilities. :D
 
Empennage Kit - Priming

How soon into the empanage construction do I need to worry about priming?

-Dan

Almost immediately. Study the preview plans to see the sequence of assembly, but in general it is:
1. Cleco parts together
2. Drill all holes full size
3. Disassemble
4. Debur and dimple
5. Here's where you want to primer if you decide to do it.
6. Cleco parts together
7. Rivet parts together

So the very first assembly you work on, likely the vertical stabilizer, will need to be primered, if you so decide, within a couple dozen hours.

I do live within 50 miles of the ocean, so I decided to primer with 2 part epoxy. Yes its lots of extra work, but my plane may have to live outside in the rain. On the other hand, my Cessna 150 which is 35 years old, shows little sign of corrosion, but I did treat it with anti corrosion spray some years ago.

Your choice, but a choice you need to make for or against early in your project.
 
Tool Box

Dan,

Order the tool box kit and use it to practice riveting on - it's quite useful too.

I am priming everything. I figure for the extra protection it's worth a couple of pounds. I lost a Cherokee to corrosion.

Happy building,

Tom
 
I'm curious how much extra time and money is spent by the builder who primes everything, vs priming only what is recommended by Vans. Is the time and cost difference minimal?
 
The prep time for priming is not that much. Scuff all of the aluminum and acid etch with alumiprep solution. Rinse, dry then shoot the primer. The epoxy primer I used has a 30 minute induction time for the two parts to become one. That was the biggest slow down -- especially when you run short a few ounces of primer. Once everything is shot and dries, you are back to assembling. In my case I primed everything and it probably added a month to the entire airframe build. Small amount of time in the big scheme of things. Cost was $40 for a cheap HVLP spray gun from HF, and 2 gallons of Akzo-Nobel from ACS was approaching $400.
 
The prep time for priming is not that much. Scuff all of the aluminum and acid etch with alumiprep solution. Rinse, dry then shoot the primer. The epoxy primer I used has a 30 minute induction time for the two parts to become one. That was the biggest slow down -- especially when you run short a few ounces of primer. Once everything is shot and dries, you are back to assembling. In my case I primed everything and it probably added a month to the entire airframe build. Small amount of time in the big scheme of things. Cost was $40 for a cheap HVLP spray gun from HF, and 2 gallons of Akzo-Nobel from ACS was approaching $400.

Holy Cow Bruce, are you serious at $200/gallon for the primer? Also, how much time and hassle spent setting up and breaking down primer operation (cleaning spray gun, etc.) each time you need to primer something?
 
Well I did it....

I wasn't planning on buying an Emp kit until after the first of the year, and I was planning on getting a new one from VANS, but Darrell made me an offer I couldn't refuse on one that has had very little work done on it.

So, by the end of next week I should have the kit in my hands. Now I just need to spend this weekend getting the barn organized so I have enough room to build!

-Dan
 
On priming

Rattle can self etch primer by Nappa, SEM, Sherman Williams etc.
Is easy to use. Scuff, clean with a degreaser solvent, put it outside your
Shop and spray. Dries fast. I use two part DuPont epoxy primer
For the high wear areas and used for the steel steps.

You may consider at least priming the mating surfaces.
 
and to the far left

and to the far left side of the chart - no internals primed on my RV-9A
 
Pro Seal - necessary on empanage?

Ah, C'mon Vlad! :D I had to place an order with Van for THIS ONE ITEM (the proseal). It drove me nuts to pay that much shipping for a $9 item. It jarred against my frugal (read pilot) sensibilities. :D

I built my empanage without using any pro seal. I cannot imagine using the stuff for anything where you don't have to. When I got my kit, they did not call out the use of pro seal on the trailing edges in the instructions. I had no trouble getting the edges true. The only place it calls for pro seal was the foam rib in the trim tab. I used 3m 5200 which is a marine polysulfide (1 part) that is permanent and readily available. I had some. I used 5200 for a number of similar tasks, like glueing the screens on the fuel vents. Use pro seal when you need something that is fuel proof only.

Flying 65 wonderful hours.
 
Never ending debate

And here everyone said they weren't going to do it, but yet did it anyways. Please see the Never Ending Debate section when it involves priming and leave that where it belongs. Now...order the kit! They are absolutely right, you aren't getting any younger. And besides, working on it will let you know if you are game for any of the bigger, more daunting things floating around on these posts or if you just want to keep the future stuff simple too. Good luck!
 
I spent about 20 hours working on the Emp kit over the long weekend.

Generally I'm really pleased with the progress I made, and with a couple exceptions I think my rivets came out well.

The rivets at the front of the leading edge (the first ones they tell you to do) are a bear to get a bucking bar on, and they don't look the best (they look like my first rivets). Aside from that, and one I had to drill on the front spar I'm pleased.

I'm still working to try and get in touch with the local tech counselor. I'd like to get someone with some experience to take a look at it before I rivet the rear spar on.

-Dan
 
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