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Galaxy Chute Aft of Firewall?

skelrad

Well Known Member
Friend
I know this question will probably just end up generating negative responses to the idea of putting a chute in a plane, but I'll risk it... (I've got my reasons for considering a chute. No need to "open my eyes" to how unnecessary it is. ;) )

I've looked at the BRS solution, and I really don't love their decision to put it so far aft. That got me looking at other options, specifically Galaxy. I know I've heard of someone installing a Galaxy chute aft of the firewall before, where it sits on the passenger side and exits vertically. If this is doable, it sure seems like it would solve most of the CG concerns that come with the BRS setup (I'd give up the heavy constant speed setup).

I'm just getting ready to start my fuselage kit, so haven't wrapped my head around the build yet. Does the space just aft of the firewall typically get filled up with equipment for the panel, or what is the likelihood of being able to carve out enough room for a chute pack? Are the ribs in that area set in stone, or can they be moved around a bit? This will be a tip-up. I'm not sure of specific dimensions of the chute yet - still waiting to hear back from Galaxy on the proper size chute (looks like either 140 or 175 sqm).

Just pondering options at the moment. I may end up just writing it off, but if it's doable, I know I'd have a happy passenger.
 

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The area aft of the firewall may get crowded with electronics depending on how you lay out the LRUs. BUT, even without the added electronics, this area has quite a few structural elements that would take some serious engineering to safely make room for the BRS.
 
I have a RV9 complete BRS set up that is like new and will sell cheap if your interested?
Let me know,I took it out of my 9 when i sold it last year.
Tony
916-813-7210
 
Brandon, the wild card is the cable(s) or strap(s) which attach the chute to the airplane. It really doesn't matter very much where you locate the pack, or which direction you fire the rocket, because it's impossible to predict the attitude of the fuselage at deployment. You do want to carefully consider where the cable/strap might go when the chute opens...because it has the potential to decapitate.

Specific to this application, a slider incorporates a roll bar into the windshield frame. No guarantee, but it would go a long way toward keeping the suspension system out of the cockpit. A tip up would concern me.

The related concern is where to place the airframe attachment. The chute folks should have a pretty good estimate of G at opening, thus the required strength. They may wish to help with the structure, and you may wish to get an independent review.
 
Another point has to do with the landing gear. I don't know how stout RV gear is for this purpose, but on other planes, the gear is beefed up to absorb the impact of landing under parachute. If the gear doesn't absorb the impact loads, your spine will.

So a chute by itself is only half the answer...
 
Great points to consider. I seem to remember that the guy who did this in his -7 routed the cables for the rear down through the wing root fairings. I wish I could find the reference to it. I think he said his install was supervised by Galaxy, so I've emailed them to see if they have any documented guidance. I'm lucky to have a family member who is an A&P and aeronautical engineer for one of the big biz jet brands, and could help out with design if I were to go this route.

It may not end up being worth the effort, but I want to do my homework for my wife's sake before nixing the idea. She's fine with flying in small planes, but I know her comfort level flying over the mountains around us would improve with a chute. BRS is an option, and the CG can still be dealt with, but definitely not ideal. This may all ultimately be a mental exercise. I sure like the idea of a forward mounted chute though.
 
Dan has made a very valid point. Take a look at other aircraft that include a parachute and look at how the suspension cables are attached. They are thick cables. Also think about how to extract the parachute for repacks and how to replace the rocket. Not required that often but you must include a means to extract both of them. Often the suspension cables are attached to the chute risers with a large carabiner so figure that in. If you are building it will be possible to locate the avionics elsewhere, that is no factor.
 
... This may all ultimately be a mental exercise. I sure like the idea of a forward mounted chute though.

May sound crazy, but I think what would be best would be a chute up front that suspends the aircraft from the engine mounts, and lets the aircraft land on the tail vertically. You'd need headrests to avoid neck injury. You'd also need to ensure that the prop was stopped before the lines get tangled in there.

Full aircraft parachutes have saved a lot of people, and it would be great to have them incorporated into the design. I think it will be easier with the RV-15, but no idea if that's being looked at.

Plenty of room in the front baggage area of the -8, if that's an option for you.

Another crazy option - wear parachutes when flying rather than counting on the full airframe parachute. Probably the simplest and cheapest option.
 
but...

"...Full aircraft parachutes have saved a lot of people..."

That is a whole other can of worms, based on marketing and an incomplete data set.

The great thing is that in experimental aviation you can build whatever your heart desires, so if the chute idea works for you, go for it...

Just one question, though...how are you going to test it?
 
Just one question, though...how are you going to test it?

Yep, without deep pockets to play around with rocket testing on a specific airframe, you're left trusting in the engineering. Sometimes we just have to be okay designing to mitigate risk vs having a certainty that there is no risk at all though. In the end whether or not I pursue this will mostly depend on what the requirements end up being and what an engineer says. I'm fine with that, since I'm not trying to go this route "at all costs." It's a nice-to-have solution, but not required for my build by any stretch. I really appreciate all of the comments about design considerations though.
 
engineering

"...Sometimes we just have to be okay designing to mitigate risk vs having a certainty that there is no risk at all though..."

The only way to have no risk at all, in an airplane, is to not fly...of course, you could be getting out of bed, step on a Lego, fall and break something...:D

The other consideration in engineering a chute system for an untested aircraft, is unintended consequences. I am guessing that there isn't going to be many engineers out there that would sign off on a chute system without actually testing it.


"...Anyone try adding the air bag seat belts to an RV ?..."

Again, this really isn't an area for TLAR engineering. Van wrote a great article years ago about "simply" adding inertia reels to the shoulder harnesses. I seem to recall that instead of saving your life, those "simple" changes could actually create more problems...
 
An armed ROCKET in the cockpit.....

I know I've heard of someone installing a Galaxy chute aft of the firewall before, where it sits on the passenger side and exits vertically.

Having read this thread for several days, there have been some good points raised. If there was voting going on, I would vote NO. It would take some MAJOR designing to be an effective/safe device. There are so many HOWs in this, it doesn't seem to be a viable option to increasing the safety of the airplane. And who IS going to test it? It seems many more things could go WRONG with this than go right.

Cirrus had been extensively designed and tested prior to production. And it was tested. Having a Ballistic parachute does not guarantee a safe return to tera firma. Look at the safety record for Cirrus aircraft. The Cirrus stalls at +60kts, an RV 47-54; a difference if you are landing where you didn't plan to. There is a story out there that may be bogus about a Cirrus pilot that made an attempt to deploy and it failed, so the pilot went ahead and landed at the nearest airport.....:confused::confused:

I'm not sure of the explosive mechanism that launches such a device but I am pretty sure I would NOT want that sitting in my lap fused and ready to go. If it did not deploy or time/altitude did not allow deployment, you have a bomb between you and the engine in a forced landing. :eek::eek::eek:

Interesting prospect to consider, putting one in an RV. Did I mention my vote would be NO?
 
Follow-up From Galaxy

I was able to go back and forth with Galaxy on email and find out a little bit more about how their chute was put into an RV7 aft of the firewall. Bottom line, the space just aft of the firewall would make for a pretty decent location in all regards except for one - for most RVs, the gross weight is high enough that they would need to upsize the chute compared to the one-off that was done on the RV7 (which was designed for a max 750kg - 1653 lbs). They said that upsizing the chute adds just enough size that the full package won't fit into that same space without dealing with structural elements.

He sent a pic of the RV7 install. So the moral of the story is that this install location might work well for a single pilot, light load kind of scenario, but for the typical RV, the right size of chute just doesn't quite fit. While I could get the engineering resources to go nuts if I really wanted to and make this work somehow, I am not looking for that much of a challenge. I would have considered this if the chute size of their previous install was adequate. So I will move on to either considering the BRS solution and taking the CG hit (which, based on the Kitplanes article is not ideal, but manageable as long as you're okay giving up baggage weight) or just starting the slow drip "it'll be ok" conversation with my wife.
 

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I’m the one who designed and installed the first Galaxy chute in an RV7A. Already 4 years of happy flights, but never tested it yet :)
 
Don't ignore the necessity of adequate testing. If it's untested, it's unknown.

A few years ago I had the idea of an automatically deploying roll bar for my RV-3B. A friend of mine was the project lead for one of the life-critical deployable devices on the Orion spacecraft, so we talked about it. He was certain that not only could it be made, it wouldn't be too hard to do. In his view, the design and implementation was low-risk with a high probability of success. What shot down the idea was the need for testing and the expense and effort of that.

Dave
 
I know, but somebody has to start (btw, everything was calculated with engineering methods). I know other builders have already installed the same in their rv7, after me.
The brs solution is equally untested, and messes up both cg AND aerodynamics (and I don’t like lateral deployment, it potentially generates dangerous lateral g during first seconds).
 
It amazes me that many do not realize how much engineering goes into what seems to them to be simple structures on aircraft.
 
Do you want your "last option" to be testing something that may not work?

Glass 1/2 full, or 1/2 empty ;)
When all else fails, the "last option" might work during the testing... as has been demonstrated a few times in history.
 
It amazes me that many do not realize how much engineering goes into what seems to them to be simple structures on aircraft.

I agree, this is why, despite having graduated from the best scientific uni in the World, I seeked help from Vans and Galaxy for my chute design. I even had a meeting with BRS ceo before deciding I had to go with my own design. Sure, testing would be better, but not yet possible for me.
 
I agree, this is why, despite having graduated from the best scientific uni in the World, I seeked help from Vans and Galaxy for my chute design. I even had a meeting with BRS ceo before deciding I had to go with my own design. Sure, testing would be better, but not yet possible for me.

Well at least you're not going into this blindly. Be cautious though, there are plenty of "experts" that are anxious to share their "knowledge".
I'm always amazed by statements that start with "I don't know anything about this but..."
 
This is what you see outside
 

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This is what you see inside (first pic is my plane, other two are from another rv7 which looks still incomplete)
 

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"...Sometimes we just have to be okay designing to mitigate risk vs having a certainty that there is no risk at all though..."

The only way to have no risk at all, in an airplane, is to not fly...of course, you could be getting out of bed, step on a Lego, fall and break something...:D

The other consideration in engineering a chute system for an untested aircraft, is unintended consequences. I am guessing that there isn't going to be many engineers out there that would sign off on a chute system without actually testing it.


"...Anyone try adding the air bag seat belts to an RV ?..."

Again, this really isn't an area for TLAR engineering. Van wrote a great article years ago about "simply" adding inertia reels to the shoulder harnesses. I seem to recall that instead of saving your life, those "simple" changes could actually create more problems...

What is TLAR engineering ?
I would like to read the Vans article if you can point me in the right direction on the web site.

Thanks
 
Looks like a nice installation.

A couple of questions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
How much does the system weight?

What did cost?

The second image shows the wing root fairing.
The aft cables are hidden here?

Will the rocket blast go into your feet or is it fully contained in a launch tube.

I someone suggested it could be bomb on impact.
Can this happen or is the fuel inert or non flammable without an igniter system?

Explain the routing of the front cables. Are just coming through the single hole from the firewall forward area.

Thanks

Max
 
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