Shop design

This is my first post to this website. I have my heart set on building an RV-10 and would like a little advice about setting up my shop. Of course, the exact plane does not matter for the shop setup, but I thought that it would be useful to mention.

Basically, I have a blank slate. I would post a picture, but I don't know how successful that would be in a first post. What I mean by blank slate is that I am in the process of building a 24' x 24' garage with 10' ceilings. Main door will be a 9' by 16' (which should allow the height to get the plane out eventually) and a back door 7' by 9'. The outside walls have been sheathed with OSB and the floor and lead up ramp will be poured this week. Hope to have to have the main structure done is a few weeks, then I have to wire electricity and gas. For the former, should I wire up 120V or should I bring in 240V? The latter will be for heat. Any suggestions about heat (live in mid MI)? I plan on insulating the walls and ceiling. Is there any insulation which would provide any sound barrier? Also, I plan to seal the floor with epoxy (most likely a plain gray, so I can see stuff I drop).

Questions:
1. best lighting--fluorescence or incandescent.
2. Outlets in ceiling?
3. Compressor (I was thinking of 50 gallon oil)
4. I am going to fix benches around the perimeter. Best width 36", 48", etc. plan on mounting tools in place.
5. is it necessary to put in central vacuum dust collector or is this just overkill?
6. would is be useful to make a bench on wheels to be able to move around? If so, then what would be the optimal size. Do I need something large enough to put the entire wing on or do I need a cradle to hold the wing during construction.
8. best way to store parts-in process and finished? Should I build shelves to hold the wings? I could put them above the back door. OR can I hoist them up and use ropes and "hang" them up.
9. thought on setting up an area for priming parts.
10. Any other useful suggestions would be welcome.

Brief bio: Chemist. Flying for about 3 yrs. IFR certification 2 weeks ago. ~260 hours of flight time. Currently a part owner in a Piper Cherokee six. I always need a hobby and in the middle of Michigan there is not much to do, so building a plane will keep me busy for a while. I have taken the Grov-air building course along with the rest of my family (wife and two daughters, so I have others to help out) about a yr ago and have been researching longer much longer. I hope to take advantage of the local EAA chapter; in particular, Dick Sip who has built an RV-10.

Thanks
Ken

attempt to attach a picture:

Welcome to VAF ken,

Looks like a great man cave to me...

1) Lots of either.
2) ??
3) 50 Gallon oiled would work great. Oiled is a must for sound level...
4) My main bench was 2ft x 8ft and mobile.
5) Whatever feeds the neat freak inside you.
6) Wing cradle that you can move around/out of the way.
8) Shelves and spare bedrooms. 8)

Welcome onboard. I am also building a 10 in Michigan. If you are ever in the Dowagiac area (between Kalamazoo and Benton Harbor) you are welcome to drop by. My shop is about half your size, but when it comes time to attach the tail cone I will move to the garage for major assembly. I have enjoyed having a 60 gal compressor plumbed elsewhere so I can work without listening to it. I put both air andower connections dropping down from the ceiling, very handy.

Number 5. I love my Oneida central dust collector, but did not use it for building my -10. It is for woodworking only. Pulling bits of hot metal into the dust collector is a good way to start a fire. If it needs service, the manufacturer will void the warranty if they detect metal in the system.

I used a Fein shop vac for all metal work. Pricey, but very quiet. Of my 6 shop vacs in various locations, it is the only one I will use without hearing protection.

Jim Berry
RV-10

+1 on Fein -- has been an excellent investment. Especially for non-RV stuff that pops up. Such as when the BMW filled up with water after a door seal failed a few weeks ago. The Fein literally sucked all the water out of the carpet.

In the shop it is the best shop vac ever when trying to clean up the mess from the ScotchBrite wheel.

N15JB said:

Number 5. I love my Oneida central dust collector, but did not use it for building my -10. It is for woodworking only. Pulling bits of hot metal into the dust collector is a good way to start a fire. If it needs service, the manufacturer will void the warranty if they detect metal in the system.

I used a Fein shop vac for all metal work. Pricey, but very quiet. Of my 6 shop vacs in various locations, it is the only one I will use without hearing protection.

Jim Berry
RV-10

Click to expand...

Stockmanreef said:

2. Outlets in ceiling?

Click to expand...

Things that are higher than other things can and will fall, thus damaging things below them. That includes plugs falling out of outlets onto your newly assembled wings or fuse (no, this has not happened to me ).

Whenever placing anything, a shelf, an outlet, a cabinet, etc., ask yourself "what if something fell?".

I have a continuous wire-metal shelf running around 2 of the walls of my garage, up near the ceiling to store parts. Living in earthquake country, the first thing I did was buy a volleyball net and make it "earthquake-proof" to keep things from falling.

Welcome to VAF!!

Stockmanreef said:

This is my first post to this website. I have my heart set on building an RV-10.......

Ken

Click to expand...

Ken, welcome aboard the good ship VAF

You made a good choice with the 10, we love ours.

1. Don't think either is better or worse. Just want lots of it.
2. I wouldn't. They well invariably eject a power cord which will fall onto something expensive and or time consuming to repair.
3. 50 gal is plenty big unless you are running an blast cabinet or other high volume demand items. Go oiled whatever size you decide on for the noise.
4. I have 48" tops but I am tall with long arms. 36-40 would be a good size. Spend some time thinking about height. I have two 4'X8' benches, a low bench and a high bench. I built the high bench so when I am standing in front the top is just slightly lower than my hands if held straight out from my elbows (about belly button height). This allow me to work on things without having to stoop. The low bench is only about five inches shorter (about hip height) and I use it when I am working on anything I need to be on top of. I also placed my grinder, drill press and band saw on the low bench.
5. No. Just keep a wheeled shop vac handy.
6. That's a nice to have, not a need to have.
7. ?????????????????
8. Place is not as important as away from moisture.
9. I built a PVC and plastic sheeting booth in a shop at the house (painting strictly forbidden in the hangars at my airport). It all depends on how wild you want to get.
10.
a) Environmental conditioning. Heat and A/C. You will be spending a lot of time out there. Might as well make it comfortable when the outside temperatures hit the extremes.
b) Rubber mats to stand on. Takes some of the stress off your feet and legs and insulates your feet from the cold concrete.

Don't mount your bench grinder on the bench. (Makes a big mess of the bench) Mount it and the belt sander on a Harbor Freight stand. Both will fit on one stand. Mount the belt sander and the grinder (with the scotch wheel) near the edge of the stand so you can pass large parts down and at a 45 degree angle. A 4X36" belt is very easy to find.

Rolling tables

Make at least two of your perimeter benches mobile. For a lot of assemblies you'll want access to both sides instead of up against a wall. So it is nice to be able to pull them out towards the middle when needed for 360 degree access.

Do a Search for "EAA tables" (VAF or google) and build two or three, put some casters on them. Do some searches for wing jig and wing cradle and you'll get a good idea what you'll need when the time comes.

You definitely won't need anything else to keep you busy for awhile . Good luck!

Doesn't seem like sound proofing will be a big issue for you out in the woods.

Lighting is EXTREMELY helpful. I opted for high output fluorescent and they work great. Especially when interior walls are finished in white.

I have "overhead" air, only one hose, and I'm happy.

If you running gas, a small gas heater is all that's needed. I have to turn mine off it gets too warm.

Good tips in this thread as well as others:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=85066&highlight=Workshop

1. I like my overhead outlets. I mounted a cord real, and only have things plugged in when the chord is extended. I love it.

2. I like having more than one air outlet handy. For instance, I have one outlet with a regulator that I use for my rivet gun, etc. Then another one handy with drill or pneumatic squeezer attached. It makes the process a lot faster. I also like the retractable chord reels overhead to keep things off the floor.

3. Benches - You will definitely want at least one bench that you can access on all sides. This will come in handy for the tailcone and HS. In fact, it would help if the top of this table was slightly lower than a normal bench.

Oh yeah, on the tables, be sure to leave a lip on the bench top so you can easily clamp things to it.

I second all the recomendations so far with only adding a small table with wheels to display the instructions. I have a small drafting table that constantly moves about the shop so the plans are always handy to double check. It usually winds up carrying the rivets as well to help keep from knocking them off the work surface. Very handy and prevents from constantly walking back to the plans.

My 2 cents.

Stockmanreef said:

For the former, should I wire up 120V or should I bring in 240V? The latter will be for heat. Any suggestions about heat (live in mid MI)? I plan on insulating the walls and ceiling. Is there any insulation which would provide any sound barrier? Also, I plan to seal the floor with epoxy (most likely a plain gray, so I can see stuff I drop).

Questions:
4. I am going to fix benches around the perimeter. Best width 36", 48", etc. plan on mounting tools in place.
6. would is be useful to make a bench on wheels to be able to move around? If so, then what would be the optimal size. Do I need something large enough to put the entire wing on or do I need a cradle to hold the wing during construction.
8. best way to store parts-in process and finished? Should I build shelves to hold the wings? I could put them above the back door. OR can I hoist them up and use ropes and "hang" them up.
9. thought on setting up an area for priming parts.
10. Any other useful suggestions would be welcome.

Click to expand...

Glad to have another 10 builder in the family, so to speak. I'm in central Ohio and about ready to start Phase I. I also get up your way occassionally, since I still have relatives in "that state up north" (It is OSU/Michigan weekend for those in other parts of the country). You're in good hands with Dick nearby.

I'll answer questions that haven't been addressed by others.

Yes, to 240. The larger compressors tend only to run on 240. If you put other appliances in the building, they may prefer 240 as well. (furnance, fans, etc)

I found that the standard EAA tables work great. Like it was mentioned, make sure you have a good lip around all four edges for clamping. Wheels are nice, but not necessarily a requirement. I didn't have any and I didn't find it cumbersome. When you build your wings and horizontal, you will want two tables in the middle of your space to walk around all sides.

When you build your wing, you'll start out on tables until all the ribs are mounted to the spar. You can even do quite a bit of the leading edge work on benches too. I did find it easier to attach the skins in the wing rack. It just comes down to preferences in how you want to work.

I used bicycle hosts to fly the empennage from the ceiling for a couple years. I also had some large shelving in the garage I used to store other subassemblies. I built a two tier platform out of 4x4 and deck planking long before I started my RV. I don't have a long garage and it allowed me to pull the car into the garage with the hood going under the first platform. You just have to be creative with the space available.

Priming is going to be a pain in the rear end. Overspray will get over everything if you aren't carefull. I hung tarps from the ceiling, but it wasn't sealed. I ended up with a fine dust over everything. You've got plenty of space for the first couple years of the build, you may want to construct a dedicated paint booth with an external exhaust fan to manage the overspray.

If you need anything just drop me an email or PM.

bob

You would be crazy to use incandescent lighting. Use linear Flourescent, not CFL's, and Tri-Phosphor lamps ('8'series). I prefer 3500k temp. but some like the 4000k I just think they are a bit too blue. Lighitng is the most important thing you can put in your shop!
If you do use plugs in the ceiling (would not be my choice as cords get drug across everything and I would rather that be the floor) use twist lock plugs and caps. Straight blade (Edison Plugs) are a no no.
I am almost embarrassed with my shop in regard to organization, fixtures to work on, storage etc.... However, I always keep it clean between operations (not necessary every day), and I have put more work through my shop area than you can imagine.
Right now, my primary work area is a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood mounted on an old table top supported with saw horses. I also have several 1' narrow 4' - 6' long lengths of 3/4" ply and a few odds and ends. I can quickly set up a work bench in the size and configuration I need to do a task all with a couple sheets of ply and saw horses. Easy to move, easy to store out of the way.

There is no substitute for doing the work and all the organization in the world and ergonomics in design won't make up for that. You're not building a production shop. Most of the work you do is "one-off". You will learn how to organize yourself as you build.
Don't get so caught up in your shop that you spend more time on it than you do your airplane. Take away some of the basics and suggestions given by others and start working.

Have fun.

I'll second everything said so far.

The hi-lights of my shop have been:

Lighting, never enough!
-I started out with two double rows of lamps the full length.
-Added two more rows when I started painting.

Put everything on wheels.
-Nothing is ever in the correct place.
-Nice to roll it all outside for shop cleaning.

Make all benches the same height, so you can roll them together.
-I built one 4' x 8', one 4' x 4', and one 3' x 8'
-Each one has one or two shelves under the top for storage.

Metal liner on wall and ceiling.
-Allows magnets to hold up drawing and photos to the walls.
-White reflects light eliminating shadows.

Electrical outlets.
-I have them every 6 feet and there arn't enough at times.
-Allow for some 240v outlets.

Heat and Air Conditioning!
-Here in Michigan, it gets really cold in winter and really hot in summer.
-Also eliminates some of the humidity.

Shelving units, As much as you can fit in. They fill up fast!
-Wall or Free standing, both are good.

Here are some photos,





The 4' x 4' bench has 4 tools mounted to it. Bench grinder, disk sander, drill press, and a vice. Notice there is a small paint booth in the back corner. Vented out a window. This is really good for everything except the wings and fuse.

Good luck and have fun, it's a great place to hang out.

Stockmanreef said:

10. Any other useful suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks
Ken

Click to expand...

Ken,
If I could go back 4 years and give advice on shop prep, this is what I'd tell myself.


A favorite quote of mine:
"You should never fail to start a project because you don't know how to do some aspect of the work. Start anyway. That forces you to learn." Cory Bird, designer and builder of Oshkosh Grand Champion Symmetry

Larry,

I couldn't agree with you more! But for me, it was as much about building my "Man Cave" or hide-a-way as it was about building the RV. Both were a lot of fun and now I have a very capable "shop" for future projects

Thermal Insulation...in the walls and in the ceiling. As much as you can get. Even though I am in the South (northern Alabama, to be exact) I am amazed at how little heat and how little A/C it takes to be comfortable. Most of my heat is from an oil-filled radiator type 110 volt portable heater. Sometimes I do crank up a portable gas-fired radiant heater to take the chill off, but that usually only takes about an hour. I can work out there in 65 degree temp just fine. Also, pay extra to get a garage door that is well insulated. I forget what mine is in terms of R-factor, but it is well insulated.

Outlets in the ceiling are not a problem. I have lots of outlets wired through light switches to control the lights. I use 4 foot fluorescent workshop lights placed where I want them and plugged into the nearest outlet in the ceiling. Ceiling is OSB painted white. Walls are four feet of OSB painted white then five feet of pegboard all around the shop up to the nine foot ceiling. I do have outlets in the walls at four foot intervals and approximately four feet off the floor. I labelled each wall outlet (A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, etc.) so I know which circuit breaker (A, B, etc.) protects which outlet.


The only thing I wish I had done differently in my 24 foot by 26 foot shop is to install a jib crane out a weatherproof door on the front of the attic so I can easily lift stuff into the attic rather than lift stuff up the pulldown stairs.

Only other comment is don't use PVC pipe for compressed air. Lots of folks here do, and some of us have learned better. It won't make your RV any better, but you might live to be able to fly it if you stay with piping designed for compressed gasses. This has been beat to death in other threads, so go search for it rather than argue with me. As a registered Professional Engineer, I offer you the information that I have yet to find a code in the United States that allows PVC pipe for compressed gasses at 30 psig or greater except in the case where the piping is buried at least 12 inches in the earth.

Peace!

Shop Design from a blank slate

Hi Ken,

This is just my two cents worth, however, I'll tell you what has worked for me personally.

1) Light: Use lots of it, especially when looking at the plans. It's easy to miss details. Some use highlighter markers on the plans when they find some little detail that will be usefull later. All the details are there, but sometimes what you want to find is only on one of the drawings of the part you are looking at.

2) Plugs in the ceiling: With a 10' ceiling you might not find this usefull if you are thinking about tools. I used lots of plugs in the ceiling because they were on circuits that were controlled by light switches. You see where I am going with this. I had more than enough plugs for the overhead florescent lights. This made it possible to re-arrange the lighting into different configurations depending on where I needed it. I could turn off half of them if I only needed light at the workbench.

Benches:
For benches I used the eaa workbenchs with some of my own mods. Be sure to have an overhang for clamping to. Most work is done on the edge or corner of a bench. I struggled with trying to come up with a solid bench that could be moved easily. Instead I made a very sturdy bench with adjustable feet. The feet are made from a 4x4 post. They are on deck jacks so all four can be screwed up or down to adjust the hieght perfectly with the table beside. (my floor isn't perfectly level). I use a carpenter's level to get one table level, then adjust the table beside it.

To move the work tables I used a piece of 2x8 scrap and put wheels on it. It has straight wheels on one end and castors on the other. This way I only have to lift one end of the table at a time to put my "skateboard" under it. If you build two of these, you can very easily push the table around. They store easily under the tables.

An idea I've had (but haven't acted on yet) is to fix a power bar on one of the legs of the work table. This way there is only one cord to trip over and you can plug mutiple tools into the table.

I find it helpfull to use lots of white pegboard for putting my tools away. When they are hung up, they are easy to find. I find that I arrange tools based on what their purpose is. For example there is a cutting section with tin snips, scissors, exacto knife, hacksaws etc. I may have something to cut and not know what tool is best for the job is until after studying this section of the pegboard. Same for hammers, glues,electrical, plumbing, etc.


Everybody has different ideas about what makes a workspace efficient. I would try visiting some local builders to see how they lay out their space.


Hope this helps. Good luck with your project.

Steve Wolfe
RV-7 Wings in Progress

1. best lighting--
fluorescence for sure, unless you can get ahold of those industrial mercury vapor floods lights, ohhhhh yeah.

2. Outlets in ceiling?
I have one outlet in the ceiling in which I connected a reeled power cord. http://www.amazon.com/Reelcraft-LG3040-123-9-Spring-Driven-40-Feet/dp/B002CVTKEM/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1353432332&sr=1-6&keywords=reel+power+cord Makes it easy when you need quick power in the center of the shop. Or to hook the shop vac up to. Also easier to hook up additional lighting up there without having to tap into the electrical boxes.


3. Compressor (I was thinking of 50 gallon oil).
Can never be too big, check Craigslist for good deals on industrial sized ones. Might think about building a soundproof enclosure around it to reduce the noise.


4. I am going to fix benches around the perimeter. Best width 36", 48", etc. plan on mounting tools in place.
If these benches are going to be on the perimeter, 48" is way too deep. You'll never be able to reach the far side of them.

I have a medium sized rolling toolbox where I keep all my aviation tools and rivets. I am able to move it to wherever I am working at a given time. Also I know all the tools are specialized so I'm not digging around in there if I need a simple screwdriver to fix something around the house.


5. is it necessary to put in central vacuum dust collector or is this just overkill?
A medium sized shop vac is all you'll need. Makes it a lot easier to get into the crevices of everything.


6. would is be useful to make a bench on wheels to be able to move around? If so, then what would be the optimal size. Do I need something large enough to put the entire wing on or do I need a cradle to hold the wing during construction.
A lot of builders like the benches on wheels. However odds are you are not going to be moving the benches around all that much. I have one 4'x'8 bench in the center of the shop. I moved it around a few times and had no problem dragging from place to place. One thing I did was install a power strip and multiple hose outlets on the bench. Made for convenient connections right in the middle of the shop. Just ran the cord and hose under a rug to the outlets along the wall. I also put a shelf on the bottom of the 4'x8' table which allowed me to keep Tupperware bins of small parts for easy access right there.


8. best way to store parts-in process and finished? Should I build shelves to hold the wings? I could put them above the back door. OR can I hoist them up and use ropes and "hang" them up.
The smaller assemblies you can store under the work tables you are building around the perimeter. It should keep them out of the way and protected. The wings you can hang on the wall or after you build the rolling wing stand, roll it to the corner of the shop. If paranoid about them, enclose them in sheets of 1/4 mdf an uncrate when needed.

9. thought on setting up an area for priming parts.
Depends on what type of primer you are thinking of. An enclosed area with ventilation is nice so that the smell doesn't make it difficult to stay in the shop after spraying. Building a bench with a chicken wire top makes it easy to prime and paint parts and not having to worry about overspray or puddling.

10. Any other useful suggestions would be welcome.
Do not overthink setting things up! Far too many builders use setting up the shop as an excuse to procrastinate starting the build. Additionally, every builder has their own idea of what works for them. By the time your finished with the empennage, you'll have a bunch of ideas about how to make the shop work well with your building style. Your shop will evolve, so allow it to have the space to do so.

Having done one recently!

1. best lighting--I chose florescent. I have 72 linear feet of T8 6500 kelvin bulbs. I am not hurting for light.

2. Outlets in ceiling?-- I chose to put in 16 around the perimeter rather than in the ceiling. I can walk to any spot on my walls and reach an outlet. I do have one in the ceiling, however that was more for the door opener. I did install a retractable extension cord to it with a light, but figure that it will get more use when I am working on the fuselage.


3. Compressor (I was thinking of 50 gallon oil). -- I did an 80 gallon. I can have a reasonable conversation when it is cycling...but that does not happen much because of the size.


4. I am going to fix benches around the perimeter. -- I put in a full length counter top height bench using stock counter tops from Lowes Aviation across the back of my shop. The back bench holds parts, plans, and the computer. Occasionally my kids use it to spend time with dad coloring, doing homework, etc.


5. is it necessary to put in central vacuum dust collector or is this just overkill? -- Shop vac is plenty. Use the savings for avionics.

6. would is be useful to make a bench on wheels to be able to move around? If so, then what would be the optimal size. Do I need something large enough to put the entire wing on or do I need a cradle to hold the wing during construction. -- Outside of the counter described in #4, the rest are mobile. I suggest a 4x6' mobile bench at minimum. Mine has worked great. I also did a 4x4 with my disk sander, drill press, vice, and band saw mounted to it. Love it.

8. best way to store parts-in process and finished? Should I build shelves to hold the wings? I could put them above the back door. OR can I hoist them up and use ropes and "hang" them up? -- I have built carts for the emp and wings that are on casters to keep them out of the way.

9. thought on setting up an area for priming parts. -- I built chicken wire benches mentioned earlier that I throw over a tarp outside or in the house garage when I prime.

10. Any other useful suggestions would be welcome. -- Insulate, insulate, insulate. Finish the walls and paint white. I did both and love the net result. It is supposed to be functional AND comfortable. The white makes the light far more effective.

You can see my shop in the link below. Good luck and welcome to the greatest adventure that will take you off terra firma!

thanks for all the replies. I don't want to spend a huge amount of time on the shop, but since it is a virgin space, I figured that I would make it workable (future use in mind). I have to get all the basics in the garage before starting to build. I imagine that it will not be until after the first of the year, so I might as well go ahead and build it out in a useful fashion. So far, the suggestions have been great. With that said, I may go on a road trip or two to visit some of the "local" builders.

The ceiling outlets would be for retractable cords and possibly adding more lights without running more wiring.


Don-
not sure what you mean by PVC. Are you talking about hard PVC water piping or the flexible braided PVC that you hook tools up to? You would have to be a bit crazy to use the former for pressure. I have a healthy respect for gases under pressure. A few years back, I had a rupture disc go on a 2 L pressure reactor that was pressured up with 1200 psi of hydrogen at 200 C. Blew all 4 doors off the hood in the lab. The only one left hanging was the one that hit me. I was protected from the initial H2 flash by the hood doors. After the flash there was an H2 flare. Nothing like seeing a 5' by 2' diameter hydrogen flame blowing out of a hood about 4' from you. Surprisingly no one was hurt. Nothing like being a chemist. Pressure regulators fail, so you have to assume that at some point, the plumbing/tubing will see the max pressure from the compressor.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. More are always welcome.

Ken

Internet access? Do you get a good WiFi signal out there? If not, consider running some Cat-5e or Cat-6 over there. Pulling up a PDF or posting a question to VAF while looking at the problem would be nice.

--Bill

bigbill25 said:

Internet access? Do you get a good WiFi signal out there? If not, consider running some Cat-5e or Cat-6 over there. Pulling up a PDF or posting a question to VAF while looking at the problem would be nice.

--Bill

Click to expand...

Right on Bill. Wi-fi is a must. So is a television if your a sports fan. You can get an amazing amount of work done during commercials and between halves, etc... just don't get too distracted or take your teams bad play out on your work.

Stockmanreef said:

Don-
not sure what you mean by PVC. Are you talking about hard PVC water piping or the flexible braided PVC that you hook tools up to? You would have to be a bit crazy to use the former for pressure. I have a healthy respect for gases under pressure. A few years back...<SNIP>

...Again, thanks for the suggestions. More are always welcome.

Ken

Click to expand...

Yes, Ken, I'm talking about hard PVC water piping being used for compressed air. There are several folks, and some of them are my friends, who have built beautiful and airworthy RV's in shops with PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) compressed air piping. There are, I believe, some types of "plastic" pipe which are allowable for compressed gasses, but PVC is not one of them. I won't repeat the discussion here because that would only waste bandwidth. If anyone wants to learn about this topic, search the archives in these forums. Ken, it sounds as if you have had a "near miss" so you are fully aware of the energy of compressed gasses. Glad you escaped injury.

One reason this topic is so sensitive with me is that I actually piped my first shop with Schedule 40 1/2 inch PVC before I learned how dangerous that is. Secondly I used to be a Safety and Quality Assurance Manager and I feel a need to inform others of dangerous practices. I guess I'm still infected with that germ.

I will have to check on the wifi. Alternatively, I have unlimited data on my phone and I can make it a hotspot. So, worst case I can run internet through the phone. This is something that was not on my radar screen.

Not sure on the TV. But now that you have me thinking, I will wire up the place with speakers so I can blast music while I work.

Is there any reason to have water going out to the workshop? I did not have plans to at this point.

Very good suggestions so far.

Things I could have done better.
Good lighting is very important. I put (3) double 8' florescant strip lights and sometimes that is not enough.
Larger compressor. I used a 1hp oiled with a 10 gal tank. I made it work but it would have been nice to have a larger one.
I could have used more electrical outlets. I have a ceiling reel that I use alot but it is almost permantly plugged in to the grinder and belt sander.

Things I did well.
Roll around tool chest.
Labeled tubs for parts storage.
Work bench large enough that I was able to store skin on a shelf underneath.
No wheels but I can move it around. I reconfigured the garage from emp to wings and again moving to the fuse.
Radio but if I am building who needs a TV or internet.
Plastic fold up saw horses. I pull these out seems like most every other day to hold something.
Table top belt/ disc sander.

Carefull with dust collection as I believe aluminum dust while in suspension is flammable to the point of being explosive. Just keep the place swept up.

DO NOT GET AN OILESS COMPRESSOR.

At least if you want to remain sane...

I used 8' two bulb HO flourescents in my shop. Can't have too much light.

Multiple air outlets with separate regulators...the pneumatic squeezer uses much more pressure than you rivet gun...harbor freight has regulators for about $12. I install a male connector on the input and the female on the output so I can move the regulators around as needed.

Huge discussion on air lines elsewhere...PVC works but it is definitely a safety issue. PEX is good for about 100 psi. Copper is great but on the expensive side. Black iron works but unless you have a threaders handy, it's much more time consuming to install. Remember to put in some drip legs...

Oh, an automatic tank drain for your compressor is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, most of them can only be set for 45 minutes or so as the longest rest period. Use a standard light timer to turn the valve on every other day or so...works great.

Are you going to have water in your shop? Nice addition if you can.

Has anyone come up with a good way to keep the mice out? Besides traps?

Lighting, lighting, lighting. My shop has eight 8-tube fluorescent high output fixtures

Outlets, outlets, outlets. If its an option, intersperse a few 220v outlets. I don't have a retractable power real but I keep 50' extension cords handing on the wall near outlets - "grab-n-go".

If the shop is small, a air hose on a reel is nice. If the shop is big then one at each end is nice.

Rolling carts. Rolling tables. Rolling chair. Rolling creeper (mine is a pair of furniture dollies with extra padding.

Milk crates. Milk crates. Milk crates. ... or, forget that. No one has milk crates

Water in the shop?

I set myself on fire with a portable propane fired space heater at my hanger a couple of winters ago. I have water, but I didn't think to use it. I didn't have a fire extinguisher handy (I have several installed now). Rolling around on a concrete floor doesn't really do the trick. Fortunately, a snow drift worked really well but not before significant third degree burns.

Think about fire safety. Especially when you are working by yourself.

any thoughts on 2" of foam versus packed cellulose? the price will be about the same for professional installation. I imagine that I could do the cellulose my self. I assume that the cellulose would offer better sound proofing and get slightly better R value. 7.5" of packed cellulose.

Thanks
ken

Don't think this has been mentioned yet, but if you have a bare concrete floor, paint it. Mine is painted a light brown/sandy colour, and it makes a big difference to the light levels inside the shop, makes it easier to spot nuts and screws that you've dropped, is dust free and easier to clean, and makes for a much more pleasant environment to work in.

Security

One other item...security alarms especially if your shop is detached as shown in your photo.

I won't tell you what kinds I have, but I can tell you I use more than one system, one is not dependent on 110 volts, and one will scare the living daylights out of an intruder.

And none of them is expensive. I mean if I'm gonna spend $75K or more on an airplane, what's a little money for security systems?

I will gladly show my security systems to my friends who are RV builders, but, sorry, I will not put this information out on the internet for anyone to see.

I'm down in Howell if your ever down her and want to take a look at my -10 which I plan to have flying this spring. I have a hanger up at KGDW (Gladwin) and will have it based there. I built my shop 32'X 56' and that gave me enough room for a paint booth inside. It will be tight for you when you hang the engine but your shop will work out just fine. I built the shop for year round use. Its well insulated with 9" walls and heated 24/7 with a 90+ furnace for next to nothing $$.

Stockmanreef said:

Is there any reason to have water going out to the workshop? I did not have plans to at this point.

Click to expand...

If you are going the alodine and alumni prep route, water would be handy because you have to rinse after both applications. Of course having a drain is also helpful.