I be smokin :)

I received most of one of Marvin's kits (Smoke System Helper) for Christmas and promptly ordered the rest of the parts that Santa did not bring me. Marvin was a joy to work with and sent my remaining parts right away.

I even ordered a drum of smoke oil from him and was sorta shocked at the delivery price. Compared to purchasing 5 gallons at a time, the drum is the only way to go! I should have enough oil to last me a long time! The oil was delivered very fast!

His kit is very complete. He bags everything up in zip lock bags and includes directions in all the little sub-kits. There will be parts left over because he includes enough stuff to allow for flexibility in how you mount everything as well as for the different airplane types.

I did find that the longer bolts included for the seat belt attach point tank mounts were too long and I had to find some shorter ones. I also found that the screws included to mount the top of the tank to the tip-up seat back brace were almost too short. Nothing major, just trying to be accurate in my review.

The "hidden" tank is a work of art and fits really nice behind the seat. It truly does sort of disappear back there. I decided to mount the pump in front of the tank to the floor pan with a hose clamp. It fits nicely in that area between the tank and the back of the seat. I removed the base from the pump and used the hose clamp running thru a couple slots in the floor pan to hold it in place. Some baffle material to cushion it. It hides the pump from view since it is between the seat and the tank! I got the idea from JohnFurey's post and picture:


PICTURE CREDIT TO JohnFurey...this is his install not mine... I shamelessly copied some of it.

I decided to run the oil line thru the spar. To accomplish this without making a massive hole for the included rubber hose, I decided to transition from rubber to aluminum and then back to rubber after passing thru the spar. This makes the hole required only 1/2". Due to the geometry involved I decided to make the double transition to rubber. I just ordered those parts from ACS ahead of time. Put the hole in the spar by following the new recommendations as written by Van's for adding holes to the spar. Here is a pic of the transition. The other end looks the same just opposite....




Somehow I managed to miff up one of the Aeroquip hose end fittings and stripped it out. I think I either had a stainless braid strand get in there or I over torqued it. Just be careful with these. It was totally my fault that I stripped this out...

Even though it was sub 20° today and we got 7.5" of snow, I went to the hangar (heated with a portable propane heater ) and finished up my install today. Checked everything out, checked for leaks, flow tested and tweaked the restrictor valve trying to get 0.5 gpm but could only get .33 or so and finally tested it with the engine running:



I flew it later but there was no one around to tell me how it was performing. No video of it in the air .

Brian, a weight loss program, marathons and now - you are smokin'

Nice

Nice...looking great.

Marvin's Smoke System helper

Brian,

Just sent you a PM- the flow valve & the electric shutoff valve (if you use this) have some issues you need to address ASAP or you are going to have a mess to clean up.

OK, now I'm jealous!

olyolson said:

Brian,

Just sent you a PM- the flow valve & the electric shutoff valve (if you use this) have some issues you need to address ASAP or you are going to have a mess to clean up.

Click to expand...

Can you share these issues? We have quite a few of these systems on our field and we're not aware of any issues.

Much better system than local pilot who had oil dip stick failure in flight resulting in much oil down on exhaust pipe making lots of smoke.

Congrats!

Super Cool!

Here is some video from the air.

Can you all tell me if this looks typical?



Are the pulses in the smoke normal? All the times I have watched smoking RV's and I never paid much attention....

Another sub 20 degree flight! I am ready for spring!

Smoke

Brian,

Smoke looks good, might have someone fly formation with you and try different flow settings. Initially I tried 1/2 a turn but that was a bit thin so I ended up about 3/4 of a turn on the flow valve for good smoke.

Oly

Smoke system issues

First I want to establish that I think Marvin designs an excellent system and will custom make the tank to your specifications. He is super easy to deal with and very receptive to comments. I've even flown in his back seat when he was working on his FFI card and he's not a bad stick!

I have talked to Marvin about some issues I had but everything is working well now so I don't know the status of parts he's currently shipping.

In my application there was a sealant flaw in the flow valve. Don't know if he's fixed it but I went through multiple valves and finally just took it all apart and realized whatever sealer he is using doesn't seal and will not hold up against petroleum products. I cleaned it up and used permatex gasket maker/sealer and finally got everything to seal properly and it works fine now.

Flow Valve


The problem area is not the round flow valve control but where the barbed ends (that connect to the oil lines) screw into the flow control housing. The clear/yellowish/white looking sealer used doesn't last very long and you will have a mess to clean up. Mine has been fine since the fix- about 2 years now. I know a couple other RV guys that had the same problem with the same solution. The round valve doesn't leak, just where the barbed ends screw into the housing.

Also DO NOT use the electric oil shutoff valve pictured below. These things start leaking pretty quickly because they are JUNK and not suitable at all for aviation use and WILL leak, again- other guys are having same problems.



I ended throwing mine away and just using his check valves and they work perfectly. The smoke snaps off very smartly and thoroughly.

I have discussed all this with Marvin and advised him to stop selling the flow valves until he reseals them with proper gasket sealer or at least make sure buyers are aware that they will have to seal these properly before use. I also advised him to get rid of the electric shutoff valves and just sell the check valves because they just plain work.

Check valves


He is very receptive and easy to deal and I love the tank and the pump. Good design & works well.

Buyer beware, reseal the flow valve & stick with check valves only! But then only if you want to have the smoke stop immediately. If it doesn't matter then don't worry about the check valves. If you're doing formation work with smoke you probably need the check valves so all the smoke stops right away.

Other than the items noted above I highly recommend you contact him if you want a nice system.

http://www.smoke-system-helper.com

Oly

Thanks for the advice! Marvin must be listening because the flow valve came with no sealer on the barbs and they were not tight, just slightly inserted for shipping. I used the good stuff to put it all together. The fittings in the tank used some sort of dark grey sealer.

I went with the check valves from the get go. I did not want to add the complexity of an extra solenoid. I put all of those fittings together myself using the good stuff.

The check valves seem to be working great for snuffing the smoke when turned off.

Again thanks for the advice!

olyolson said:

Brian,

Smoke looks good, might have someone fly formation with you and try different flow settings. Initially I tried 1/2 a turn but that was a bit thin so I ended up about 3/4 of a turn on the flow valve for good smoke.

Oly

Click to expand...

My valve is wide open and I am only getting .33 gpm thru the exhaust. I have reached out to Marvin for some help. I tested it with just the pump and the wide open valve and a short piece of hose into a bucket sitting in the plane and could only get .4 gpm.

Shouldn't the pump be able to push more than that?

Smoke oil rate

Brian,

Sounds like the pump is a bit weak. I would have said you may have an obstruction in the line but since you said you were pumping through a short piece of tube into a bucket then maybe not. I did the same thing before installation with the flow valve full open and the pump completely filled the oil line and gushed oil into the bucket. I didn't measure the flow rate but I was satisfied it would be enough. Subsequent testing in the air with a wingman confirmed a 3/4 turn open seemed to be the right amount of smoke without wasting oil. Most guys I know that use Marvin's system use anywhere from 1/2 to 1 full turn open on the flow valve.

Marvin is a good guy and I'm sure you will have no trouble swapping out the pump.

Oly

olyolson said:

Brian,

Sounds like the pump is a bit weak. I would have said you may have an obstruction in the line but since you said you were pumping through a short piece of tube into a bucket then maybe not. I did the same thing before installation with the flow valve full open and the pump completely filled the oil line and gushed oil into the bucket. I didn't measure the flow rate but I was satisfied it would be enough. Subsequent testing in the air with a wingman confirmed a 3/4 turn open seemed to be the right amount of smoke without wasting oil. Most guys I know that use Marvin's system use anywhere from 1/2 to 1 full turn open on the flow valve.

Marvin is a good guy and I'm sure you will have no trouble swapping out the pump.

Oly

Click to expand...

He is already on the case. Looks like something is wrong with the pump. He said these issues are rare. My flow test into a bucket with a short line was nothing like gushing with the valve wide open. I have checked the valve for obstructions. Took almost 5 minutes to pump 2 gallons. Marvin says these pumps are rated at 1.5 gpm.

Just realized that I never posted that I just figured out the problems I was having....

One was low flow rate:

Found the custom fitting that converts from the rubber hose to the flop tube in the tank had a slight air leak in it where it was soldered together. This was allowing the pump to suck air which was bad mojo for the flow rate. Resoldered that connection and that issue was solved.

I was then getting intermittent low to no flow for no obvious reason:

The length of the flop tube and the shape of the weight on the end of the line was just perfect to allow the end of the suction line to suck itself to the side of the tank and stop the flow. I changed the length of the hose and drilled many small holes around the circumference of the weight so that there is no way for it to get blocked in this manner.

Note: If you install one of these systems and use the non-vented cap with the checkvalve, be aware that the tank can expand and contract in flight and may oil-can loud enough to make you want to c r a p your pants. It will also scare the life out of your wife!

Learn about this saga here:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1199756&postcount=17

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=151957

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=152807