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New Owner Questions

Invicto89

I'm New Here
Hey everybody,

I am the proud owner of an RV-12iS that I bought from Lockwood in Sebring late last year.

New user so image link here for those interested http://www.grayburke.com/images/Photoshare/1.jpeg

Now that we are empty nesters this is my wife of 32 years, Tina's, way of motivating me to finally get started in earnest on the -8A kit I've been moving around the country. She even flew the -12 back with me from KSEF to home field KOMH - pretty cool first X-country up the East Coast.

I've been searching the forum but still have a couple of questions that the community may be able to help me with:

1. What is a representative labor hours estimate for the Annual Condition Inspection, not including outstanding SBs?

2. Are there any LSR-I 2 day courses online that allow me to do my own CI without having to deal with the COVID travel hassle?

3. Any recommendations for an A&P/LSR-M nearby KOMH (Orange, VA Between DC and Richmond / Fredericksburg and Charlottesville) with -12/Rotax experience?

4. My prop aft face leading edge paint is eroding (the only item from the pre-buy inspection) and I would like to get it dressed and then the prop dynamically rebalanced - any recommendations?

Thanks for any input,

Steve
'21 Dues Paid
2020 RV-12iS Dynon 120482
TBD RV-8A 81635
 
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Hey everybody,

I am the proud owner of an RV-12iS that I bought from Lockwood in Sebring late last year.

New user so image link here for those interested http://www.grayburke.com/images/Photoshare/1.jpeg

Now that we are empty nesters this is my wife of 32 years, Tina's, way of motivating me to finally get started in earnest on the -8A kit I've been moving around the country. She even flew the -12 back with me from KSEF to home field KOMH - pretty cool first X-country up the East Coast.

I've been searching the forum but still have a couple of questions that the community may be able to help me with:

1. What is a representative labor hours estimate for the Annual Condition Inspection, not including outstanding SBs?

2. Are there any LSR-I 2 day courses online that allow me to do my own CI without having to deal with the COVID travel hassle?

3. Any recommendations for an A&P/LSR-M nearby KOMH (Orange, VA Between DC and Richmond / Fredericksburg and Charlottesville) with -12/Rotax experience?

4. My prop aft face leading edge paint is eroding (the only item from the pre-buy inspection) and I would like to get it dressed and then the prop dynamically rebalanced - any recommendations?

Thanks for any input,

Steve
'21 Dues Paid
2020 RV-12iS Dynon 120482
TBD RV-8A 81635

Congratulations!

I, too, am a new -12iS owner and can only offer help with number 2. Rainbow Aviation has a two-day inspection course for $450. I have already taken it and am waiting for the FAA to actually put the plane into my name so that I may file my "LSA - inspection" certificate with the local FSDO.

I'm planning to sign up for the Lockwood course for Rotax maintenance! Maybe November?

Jay
 
I usually spread my annual out over a week, but total time for me is about Twenty hours of actual work assuming I don’t have anything extra like a big SB. I repack wheel bearings every annual and replace brake pads about every other year. My main tires last about 500 hours, but the nosewheel tire has 10 years and 1100 hours on it with no real wear. I also put in some customized time savers like a zirc fitting on the nosewheel and six inspection plates along the fuselage. I also cut the tunnel slope section in half horizontally and put in a piano hinge to simplify access for inspection.
 
I have never heard of an online LSRI-A course. I went to the course held before Sun & Fun this past year.

I would estimate it took me 40 hrs. to do my first condition inspection. I'm counting the time required to do the scheduled maintenance in that estimate. I expect the inspection next year will go faster since I'm more familiar with everything now.

I had my plane torn apart for close to 2 weeks, but I also had some SB's to take care of, plus the installation of Dynon ADSB-IN.

Nice looking plane! GO NAVY!
 
Hey everybody,

I am the proud owner of an RV-12iS ...

Steve
'21 Dues Paid
2020 RV-12iS Dynon 120482
TBD RV-8A 81635

Hi Steve,

Just to be clear for insurance, maintenance, etc. and so that folks here can respond to your questions accurately, your plane is a very good looking 2012 RV-12.
 
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Hi Steve,

Just to be clear for insurance, maintenance, etc. and so that folks here can respond to your questions accurately, your plane is a very good looking 2012 RV-12.

Otherwise known around here at a RV-12 Legacy model.

Depending on how fast the builder completed this build, 2012's can have interesting electronics / glass EFIS combinations installed inside them.

Mine has a Dynon Skyview EFIS in it, some have earlier, simpler versions of Dynon glass EFIS in them, just depends on when the builder ordered and started working on the avionics install. Some of them are transitional with the wiring harnesses to the Skyview system with a connector box... not a lot, maybe 40 or so.
 
As for the prop... we shipped ours off to Sensenich to have the blades overhauled. They came back looking brand new and statically balanced. That helped a little with vibration, but nowhere near as much as the dynamic balance we recently had done. Call or email Sensenich and they can give you the current cost for blade overhauls.
 
Thanks for all the inputs.

For Jon and Michael, the aircraft was recertified as an April 2020 manufacture date and statement of compliance with Vans E-LSA plans.

Only thing I have done since purchase was to add the second Dynon Skyview HDX EFIS.

http://www.grayburke.com/images/Photoshare/IMG_4284.JPG

http://www.grayburke.com/images/Photoshare/7.jpeg

http://www.grayburke.com/images/Photoshare/9.JPG

I had scheduled the Condition Inspection with CSP at W29 but yesterday found an A&P at my home field that will allow me to participate and learn the process.

I appreciate all the feedback,

Steve
 
Guess we need to see what's under the cowling... Carburetors or fuel injected. Perhaps also a picture of the fuel tank in back.

And does it really have the 912IS upgraded main landing gear specifications.

It's had quite a few owners in it's history, according to the registry.

It would be interesting to see what the maintenance and airframe logs say and show.
 
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Guess we need to see what's under the cowling... Carburetors or fuel injected. Perhaps also a picture of the fuel tank in back.
.

He says he bought an IS.. It’s an IS interior, the data plate says IS, it’s an IS cowling.. I expect the engine looks like a 912IS.. I expect it has the IS fuel tank, considering the fill location shown in the photo is at the IS location.

Again, nice plane Steve! The interior is beautiful too!

I wonder how much it cost Lockwood to do that conversion? That’s the first conversion from Legecy to IS that I have seen. As the Legacy fleet ages, I bet Van’s eventually offers an official Van’s ULS to IS conversion kit.
 
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The airplane being discussed wasn’t really a conversion of a legacy RV 12 in the sense that some may be thinking.
It was done by using the original wings, empennage and tail cone, and other common parts, and replacing the forward fuselage and firewall forward with all new parts that would be specific to a 12iS
 
The airplane being discussed wasn’t really a conversion of a legacy RV 12 in the sense that some may be thinking.
It was done by using the original wings, empennage and tail cone, and other common parts, and replacing the forward fuselage and firewall forward with all new parts that would be specific to a 12iS

Sounds like a lot of $$$$ and labor involved!
 
The airplane being discussed wasn’t really a conversion of a legacy RV 12 in the sense that some may be thinking.
It was done by using the original wings, empennage and tail cone, and other common parts, and replacing the forward fuselage and firewall forward with all new parts that would be specific to a 12iS

So the Serial number stays with the tail cone, if the tail cone is reused.

Why would someone replace all the parts in the forward fuselage and firewall forward? Asking, since there's no point in speculating why so much money was thrown into this plane, that's the really expensive list of parts on the build, engine and avionics and interior.

For jrock... a 912IS can be built E-LSA with either the ULS carb motor or the iS fuel injected motor, which weighs an extra 25 lbs. Van's offers it, or may have used to offer it both ways.
 
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So the Serial number stays with the tail cone, if the tail cone is reused.

Why would someone replace all the parts in the forward fuselage and firewall forward? Asking, since there's no point in speculating why so much money was thrown into this plane, that's the really expensive list of parts on the build, engine and avionics and interior.

For jrock... a 912IS can be built E-LSA with either the ULS carb motor or the iS fuel injected motor, which weighs an extra 25 lbs. Van's offers it, or may have used to offer it both ways.

I'm aware of that.. Not really sure of the point you're trying to make...

Converting a 912uls to 912is RV12 might make sense for some individials or businesses. I expect Lockwood figured out how to make it worth their time and effort. No way of knowing how much they paid for the airplane or how much it cost them to convert it and any tax advantages they may have found. I expect Lockwood gets dealer pricing on Rotax also.. I don't know why you think Avionics would have to be replaced. Wiring yes, but a Skyview HDX, radios, ELT, transponder, auto pilot, etc. will work with both engines.. There's only a $5K difference retail price between 912is / 912uls engine..

As the Legacy fleet continues to age and engines TBO, I expect people are going to start doing the math and start looking at the difference between the value of an old RV12 with a worn out beyond TBO engine vs. what it would cost to upgrade it to a 912is vs spending years and the cost of building a new RV12is.. You also have the sentimental factor.. Some people might not want to sell their baby and would rather spend the money to convert to 912is, even if it didn't make good financial sense.. Lots of different possibilities and scenarios..
 
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I'm aware of that.. Not really sure of the point you're trying to make...

Converting a 912uls to 912is RV12 might make sense for some individials or businesses. I expect Lockwood figured out how to make it worth their time and effort. No way of knowing how much they paid for the airplane or how much it cost them to convert it and any tax advantages they may have found. I expect Lockwood gets dealer pricing on Rotax also.. I don't know why you think Avionics would have to be replaced. Wiring yes, but a Skyview HDX, radios, ELT, transponder, auto pilot, etc. will work with both engines.. There's only a $5K difference retail price between 912is / 912uls engine..

As the Legacy fleet continues to age and engines TBO, I expect people are going to start doing the math and start looking at the difference between the value of an old RV12 with a worn out beyond TBO engine vs. what it would cost to upgrade it to a 912is vs spending years and the cost of building a new RV12is.. You also have the sentimental factor.. Some people might not want to sell their baby and would rather spend the money to convert to 912is, even if it didn't make good financial sense.. Lots of different possibilities and scenarios..


I haven't seen any RV-12 Legacy E-LSA builds with timed out motors around or up for sale. The motors can continue to be run "on condition" well past 2000 hrs, if serviced properly and not abused.

These motors are not old school, air cooled, sloppy tolerance, taper bored Lycs or Contis. They keep their tolerances much longer for many more hours run. That and RV-12's don't get used too often doing XC trips, racking up the hours like the bigger RV models.

What I have seen with timed out motors are the S-LSA Legacy RV-12 builds used by flight schools.

Just my opinion, this particular plane is a "unicorn", with an original 2012 build. Back then Skyview D1000's were possible in dash, some were still D-180s, but the HDX wasn't even available back then. Van's had to create a connection box and wiring harnesses for the earliest RV-12s that were wired for Gen1 Dynon equipment so that Gen2 Skyview Classics and Skyview Touches could be plug and play. HDX is Gen 3 and compatible with Gen 2 wiring harnesses, I believe, just plug and play. Not so with Gen 1.
 
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I’m essentially doing exactly what Scott said. My original 12 s/n 120672 was completed up through the fuselage build (wings and tailcone completed too) at the time the 12iS was announced. Decided I wanted the Rotax fuel injected engine and the great improvements Vans made so I ordered the new iS fuselage kit at Oshkosh. I have now completed the iS fuselage and waiting for delta finish kit parts (yes I had the original 12 finish kit also before changing). Building as ESLA. Been an interesting journey so far but happy with my decision. Anybody need a 12 toward fuselage?
 
I haven't seen any RV-12 Legacy E-LSA builds with timed out motors around or up for sale. The motors can continue to be run "on condition" well past 2000 hrs, if serviced properly and not abused.

These motors are not old school, air cooled, sloppy tolerance, taper bored Lycs or Contis. They keep their tolerances much longer for many more hours run. That and RV-12's don't get used too often doing XC trips, racking up the hours like the bigger RV models.

What I have seen with timed out motors are the S-LSA Legacy RV-12 builds used by flight schools.

Just my opinion, this particular plane is a "unicorn", with an original 2012 build. Back then Skyview D1000's were possible in dash, some were still D-180s, but the HDX wasn't even available back then. Van's had to create a connection box and wiring harnesses for the earliest RV-12s that were wired for Gen1 Dynon equipment so that Gen2 Skyview Classics and Skyview Touches could be plug and play. HDX is Gen 3 and compatible with Gen 2 wiring harnesses, I believe, just plug and play. Not so with Gen 1.

Don't forget TBO is not just based on Hours. Rotax 912uls engines from 2010ish and on will reach TBO (15 years) by age starting in 2025ish..

I definitely won't be taking my loved ones up flying in an airplane with an engine beyond TBO.. I guess it'll be a personal decision each owner will have to make..
 
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I haven't seen any RV-12 Legacy E-LSA builds with timed out motors around or up for sale. The motors can continue to be run "on condition" well past 2000 hrs, if serviced properly and not abused.

These motors are not old school, air cooled, sloppy tolerance, taper bored Lycs or Contis. They keep their tolerances much longer for many more hours run. That and RV-12's don't get used too often doing XC trips, racking up the hours like the bigger RV models.

What I have seen with timed out motors are the S-LSA Legacy RV-12 builds used by flight schools.

Just my opinion, this particular plane is a "unicorn", with an original 2012 build. Back then Skyview D1000's were possible in dash, some were still D-180s, but the HDX wasn't even available back then. Van's had to create a connection box and wiring harnesses for the earliest RV-12s that were wired for Gen1 Dynon equipment so that Gen2 Skyview Classics and Skyview Touches could be plug and play. HDX is Gen 3 and compatible with Gen 2 wiring harnesses, I believe, just plug and play. Not so with Gen 1.

It is unclear to me why are you so often need to pick apart what others are doing. This is an entirely legit airplane that was professionally modified by a professional aviation business. They have their reasons for doing it and have now sold it to a new owner. It is just as much an ELSA RV 12iS, as any other.

Aside from that, a lot of you info presented here is just plain wrong.
 
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I saw this airplane in Lockwood's shop in February 2020 when I took the Rotax service course from Dean Vogel (which I might add has been invaluable). During the breaks we could walk around the shop. I recall saying to myself if this is what a detailed condition inspection looks like I must really be slacking. The old engine was still on the plane, prop removed, everything in the cockpit and fuselage was completely opened up, fuel tank removed etc. Now I know why......and maybe I'm not a total slacker. Nice plane!
 
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Another issue to consider is the insurance. How would they react to a claim on an aircraft that has an engine beyond recommended overhaul time?
 
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