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RV 10 air conditioning

RV82014

Member
Looking for some info on air conditioning for RV 10. I've seen a few different options online. I live in Florida so hot and muggy. Who's happy with what they installed ? Thanks. Darren
 
I am very happy with my Airflow systems A/C. I have over 300 hours on it.
Gave it a nice workout last week on an OSH trip where we used it about 80% of the time. Getting rid of the humidity is as beneficial as the cooler air. It's great to see all that water spewing down onto the ramp from the discharge tube when you shut down knowing that it's not soaking into your interior and avionics.
It's not an easy project, and it does add significant time to the build to get it right, but I would never build again without it.
 
I've always had it so can't compare before vs after.
I see no difference when turning the compressor on or off.
Because I live in AZ, I did upgrade my oil cooler from an 06 size to 07 when I built and have shark gills on side of cowling (part of A/C kit) but I don't have abnormal heat problems. I actually had to install a butterfly valve in my oil cooler duct because I was struggling to stay in the green in winter time.
 
I'm very interested as well. After speaking wiht a few guys at OSH (some very respected and reputable) the overall consensus was NOT to install an AC unit. Troublesome, not always working, heavy, compromise cruise performance. Their suggestion was to use the cooler with the ICE and fan. But to me..that takes up space, is heavy and a small fix for a big problem living here in Houston. I know with the -10 flying high is always the goal, but those early part of the flight can be unbearable in the Houston heat.

The 2 systems I have looked at are the
Airflow system and the South Florida Aviation AC unit. Both have the lower scoop.

I am riveting my lower fuse skin on so I have some time before deciding.
 
The beauty of experimental is building the way you want. My wife and I wanted comfort.
Yes it adds weight and complexity, but my cruise speeds are in the normal high 160's low 170's that everyone else seems to be in. I think there is some blowback from seasoned mechanics who worked on the junk systems that the certified shops were putting out in the 70's/80's. Most have been yanked out for years. The experimental systems of today use top shelf automotive components that are cheaper, have widely available parts, and much more reliable.
It is akin to comparing today's' experimental autopilots to the junk-o-matics the factories put out back in the day as well.
I thought I would only use it low altitude, but we don't. The cabin is like a greenhouse when the sun is on it, even with low OAT's.
Everybody is going to defend their own decisions, including me. Come out and I'll take you for a ride so you can decide for yourself. I have zero financial interest.
 
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I'm very interested as well. After speaking wiht a few guys at OSH (some very respected and reputable) the overall consensus was NOT to install an AC unit. Troublesome, not always working, heavy, compromise cruise performance. Their suggestion was to use the cooler with the ICE and fan. But to me..that takes up space, is heavy and a small fix for a big problem living here in Houston. I know with the -10 flying high is always the goal, but those early part of the flight can be unbearable in the Houston heat.

The 2 systems I have looked at are the
Airflow system and the South Florida Aviation AC unit. Both have the lower scoop.

I am riveting my lower fuse skin on so I have some time before deciding.
Mark,
I live in Houston as well and decided not to install an AC on my -10. My reasoning was that it would always be with you whether you wanted it or not. You could never decide to leave that 60lbs behind to carry some extra luggage.

I have been using one of the ice chest coolers and it works perfectly well when needed. I fly out of EFD and have some long taxis and get stuck down low under/through the Bravo. The ice chest AC has always been all I needed for these trips. I can always leave it on the ground when I want too.
 
I'm putting an Airflow Systems AC in my RV-10, and so far the parts and advice from Bill have been top quality. Since I haven't competed my project, I can't comment on how well it works, but I did do quite a bit of research in selecting the Airflow unit.

I also live in the Houston area and bought an ice chest cooler last year at AirVenture for use in my Grumman Traveler. It has been sitting unused on the hanger floor after my first 2 flights with it, as I found it not worth the trouble. 20 pounds of ice only lasted about 30 minutes in the summer heat here, emptying the cooler full of water was not easy, and the side trip to buy ice on the way to the airport took additional time away from flying. Overall, I found it more trouble than it was worth and gave up on it.

As someone else said, each of us will have our preferences and that is what Experimental is all about. Not saying that any preference is right or wrong - you need to do what works for you. Just indicating my experience/preferences.
 
+1 for Air Flow Systems

Myron sums it up well.

The Serpentine drive belt that the compressor uses instead of the old tech A section drive belts is just one of the many improvements that Bill has made to make this a very reliable system.

Taking the time to design a compressor mount that allows the compressor to sit low in the cowl so the cooling intake is not obstructed is another example of great design.

The Condenser scoop that mounts under the fuselage was designed and tested in a wind tunnel so the lowest drag profile could be used. I am amazed how little impact this has on my TAS. I regularly fly with other stock RV-10's and find very little difference between their TAS and fuel burn compared to mine.

I am surprised how much I use the A/C, yes you can do with out it ,but my wife and I really enjoy this part of our RV-10 :)

3 years and nearly 400 hrs of trouble free fun.

A/C write up in my signature below,
 
Flight Line AC

I also live in Houston. I have the Flight Line AC system installed in our RV10. I worked extensively with John Strain on the system and have a very good final installation. I have the MotoPod Cargo attachment for the bottom of the airplane and therefore could not use the AirFlow System with the scoop on the bottom.
We use the system on every flight we take as my wife, kids and I enjoy to comfort it provides. I see no difference in oil cooling or power difference with the system on or off. I did need to work with my CHT cooling and would likely route hoses differently and use different angle connections to the compressor. AirFlows compressor location is nice since it is low and out of the intake ramps way.
Its a builders choice on what is important or not. We have over 450 hours with no issues.

I would do it all over again.
 
A/C

Hi Darren,
I'm just across the state from you at X50.
We have installed 4 A/C systems in RV-10s. One Flightline and 3 Airflows.
The Airflow is a simpler installation and not seen at all where Flightline wants it to be mounted in the baggage compartment, which we did not do. Fabricated everything to be behind the bulkhead.
If your RV-10 is already completed, Airflow does have a mod so the lines can be run under the belly....easy and we have done it.
Count on the possibility of cutting a hole and re-glassing a bulge in the lower left side cowling.
Email or call if you like for a more detailed opinion.........Joe...386-690-6455.

Looking for some info on air conditioning for RV 10. I've seen a few different options online. I live in Florida so hot and muggy. Who's happy with what they installed ? Thanks. Darren
 
The Airflow is a simpler installation and not seen at all where Flightline wants it to be mounted in the baggage compartment, which we did not do. Fabricated everything to be behind the bulkhead.

I have no experience with Airflow, so I can't speak to its simplicity. But I don't understand the bit about Flightline being mounted in the baggage compartment. It's not that way in my kit. Condenser inlet/outlet in second bay behind the baggage bulkhead. Package tray mounted above longerons behind baggage compartment, carrying condenser and evaporator. Lines running to compressor (mine is engine driven) hidden in right side panels; fill ports behind baggage compartment (though I was tempted to make them accessible without removing the baggage bulkhead). Returns on baggage bulkhead and the a/c venting into the overhead. Nothing is in my baggage compartment.

The only thing I wish I'd changed was to make the condenser inlet/outlet plenums removable so I could work in the aft tailcone without difficulty. As to how it performs, we won't know until I finally get this magnum opus in the air.
 
I'm using Airflow-System in my Rv10 for 7 years now. Couldn't live without it. Simple installation with the weight of the system distributed around the aircraft instead of all behind the baggage compartment. The new larger evaporator supplied by Air-Flow puts plenty of cold air in the cabin.
Greg..
 
I'm going with the Airflow Systems as well. I've also seen Gregs in person and the scoop is really sharp looking! Actually hope to have it installed over the next month while I wait on my engine.
 
Zero Breeze?

Saw this on Kickstarter- 14 lbs, runs on 12v DC (15 amps or so, or available with a battery backup).

Zero Breeze

Only 1100 BTU's- that's a problem, but I could imagine someone making a bank of 2-3 of these, hacking them together into a self-contained unit that puts out 3k BTU's and could be removable for luggage. At less than $2k.

Assuming the product makes it to market.
 
Saw this on Kickstarter- 14 lbs, runs on 12v DC (15 amps or so, or available with a battery backup).

Zero Breeze

Only 1100 BTU's- that's a problem, but I could imagine someone making a bank of 2-3 of these, hacking them together into a self-contained unit that puts out 3k BTU's and could be removable for luggage. At less than $2k.

Assuming the product makes it to market.

That is cool (literally) and would completely change the game for small aircraft AC. I wonder where they are at in their development, as the kick starter campaign was supposed to be done, with orders shipping in March of this year. Hmmm. These guys appear to be the same ones doing the IcyBreeze, which is basically a cooler type AC unit. I have one of these and it works great, which is why I'm not planning on AC in my RV-10. If their Zero Breeze works well and has no "non-functional" time (like after the ice melts in my IcyBreeze), then I would definitely be interested. Thanks for the link.
 
Not sure where you will run the hot air out pipe if you use one of these Zero Breeze units in your plane. But since it is an AC unit with a compressor, the heat from the condenser will need to be ducted outside of your plane for it to work. That's why the Airflow condenser is mounted in a duct on the belly of the plan.
 
Saw this on Kickstarter- 14 lbs, runs on 12v DC (15 amps or so, or available with a battery backup).

Zero Breeze

Only 1100 BTU's- that's a problem, but I could imagine someone making a bank of 2-3 of these, hacking them together into a self-contained unit that puts out 3k BTU's and could be removable for luggage. At less than $2k.

Assuming the product makes it to market.


ADD a few more than 3 while you are in the process. I have 12,000 BTU/H capacity in the -10 and wish I had 18,000
 
Airflow Systems Condenser Scoop

One part of my A/C System that has generated more conversations than the cold air that it produces is the Condenser Scoop mounted under the belly of the aircraft.

Some people love the look of the scoop (aka P-51 reference ),and others are amazed that it does not slow the aircraft down much.

The three other RV-10's that I fly with all have the same engine prop combos (stock IO-540 and Hatzell 2 blade )and once in cruise have similar speeds and fuel burn and my aircraft is the only one with A/C. Bill has often stated that there is a 0 to 1-2 knt penalty with the scoop and in my personal experience at LOP cruise with other RV-10's,it appears to be zero.Now I am sure that in a flat out max speed drag race there must be a difference but this is not how I fly.

I asked Bill at Airflow about this and received this reply that he was happy for me to share :

?Design considerations I used choosing to go with scoop;

My experience with certified aircraft air conditioning showed that many ADs had been issued because of Carbon Monoxide contamination for AC systems where condenser was positioned inside fuselage.
Mounting condenser outside of fuselage not a new idea, it has CG and maintenance benefits (access to tail cone).
What was new was Airflow Systems design efforts, with the help of wind tunnel, to create the absolute lowest drag, lowest weight, lowest electrical draw condenser installation.
Starting with a scoop that was certified for a Cessna AC system we were able to reduce drag by more than 50% through multiple design iterations where maintaining attached flow seen in the photos was the goal.

AC systems without scoops also have drag because no matter what system you have, you have to force air through the condenser and exit that air overboard. *that requires inlet holes and outlet holes which are never drag free.

*Note how the tufts are attached all the way back on the scoop indicating very little separation.* We found that we did not need as many louvres as shown in the photo and that reduced drag as well

I attended the San Diego State University where the wind tunnel is located in the early 70s (finished at another university) and never knew the wind tunnel was there until years later when I read a book by one of the professors on staff there. It was built in the early 60s using a cut down P-51 prop and a very big electric motor. *i wonder if my career would have been different had I known it was there, I really enjoyed the testing process and being able to develop new parts based on repeatable, reliable data.?

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Airflow AC

Dear all: I?m just starting to fly my -10 in Buenos Aires , Argentina and it has the system installed.
I was wondering if possible and if it?s worth to build a fairing in order to reduce drag, closing the scoop mouth during the cold months here, ( aprox 7/8 a year)
Hearing and waiting your useful opinions.

Jorge Ezquerra
Buenos Aires

Planning to go to Kosh in 2020 flyng this baby.
Already did Buenos Aires-Kosh in a Mooney in 2016
 
I'm no aerodynamacist..

..but I think a fairing would reduce the drag a little bit. However, you'd want to make sure not to use the air conditioning with the fairing in place. If you did make a fairing, I bet many people on this forum would be interested in knowing the drag penalty of the air conditioning scoop, based on your testing...
 
Airflow A/C

..but I think a fairing would reduce the drag a little bit. However, you'd want to make sure not to use the air conditioning with the fairing in place. If you did make a fairing, I bet many people on this forum would be interested in knowing the drag penalty of the air conditioning scoop, based on your testing...

Thanks for your opinion.
I will do and then post the results.

Jorge Ezquerra
Buenos Aires
 
I?m planning on starting a build soon and would like to go the quick build route. Has anyone used any of these systems with a quick build fuselage or is it necessary to use the slow build fuselage?
 
I also installed my airflow systems A/C in a quick build fuselage. I even routed the hoses along the fuselage walls instead of in the tunnel. The quick build isn't so complete that it impacts your ability to install an A/C system.
 
But I don't understand the bit about Flightline being mounted in the baggage compartment. It's not that way in my kit.


The newer Flightline kits do want it mounted in the baggage compartment. No way I would take up baggage compartment space for the AC. Mine is the old one, like yours, mounted in the tailcone. I have seen the new Flightline that HelioJoe installed in the tailcone instead of the baggage area, and it looks great. Joe and his crew did a very nice job engineering that installation.
I have flown airplanes with both the Flightline and the Airflow systems. If I was doing it again, I would go with Airflow. My experience is more cold air and less complexity from Airflow. I must say, John Strain at Flightline could not possibly have been more responsive and helpful during the installation, and with some mods I made later on. I don't believe John owns the company anymore.
 
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