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Can I provide FREE flight instruction in my homebuilt aircraft

mcjon77

Well Known Member
Hi guys,

I was wondering if a CFI who owned a homebuilt could legally provide FREE flight instruction in his own homebuilt aircraft. The only thing that I have found online against such an action involves not flying a homebuilt for compensation or hire. In my example, this hypothetical CFI would be providing the instruction completely free (not even a charge for fuel). Lets say he wants to teach his mother/father/wife/son/daughter/etc how to fly. Assuming that the aircraft is otherwise properly equiped to provide such instruction, is this legal?

If it is, have any of you CFI RVers out their taught family or friends in your bird?

Thanks,

Jon
 
A question that has been on my mind for months and it is answered in 8 minutes here. Thanks, Mel!
 
What Mel said....

.....but let me just inform you that you can do it for pay.....several of us do.

The FAA FSDO office nearest you issues what's called a LODA, or Letter of Deviation authority to do Transition training as well. I've taught my son for free. It's a PITA to go through all their hoops but once you do, it's a done deal.

Regards,
 
Pierre,

Just wanted to make sure I was on the same page. We can teach in OUR aircraft for compensation with the LODA.

I am in the planning on starting an RV in the next year and I would LOVE to instruct someday when I have the RV experience. It would be nice to have a side job besides the airline flying thing. I am itching to get back to teach. I miss GA!

About how long did it take for you to get the LODA issued through your FSDO?

I do realize that this is about 7-10 years down the road. Just wanted to know for planning purposes.

Thanks, Ryan
 
If you do want compensation for instruction ... just have a very very expensive PGI rate for your time and the flight is free :rolleyes:
 
Pierre,
What about another situation: Can a CFII give me instrument instruction in my own RV (RV has IFR pitot/static currency and suitable nav and gyro gear)? Buddy at the airport said this was not allowed.... but I really do not know?
Thanks,
John Severyn
 
.....but let me just inform you that you can do it for pay.....several of us do.

The FAA FSDO office nearest you issues what's called a LODA, or Letter of Deviation authority to do Transition training as well. I've taught my son for free. It's a PITA to go through all their hoops but once you do, it's a done deal.

Regards,

My understanding is that an LODA is issued to allow charging for the use of an experimental category aircraft for giving transition training only.
The airplane can not be used for hire to give primary training, such as training towards a rating (private pilot, etc.). Only training to help transition an already rated pilot into that type of aircraft.

An RV can be used for primary training as long as there is no compensation taking place (receiving money for the use of the airplane).

An RV owner (or owners family member, etc.) can pay an instructor for there time giving them primary instruction in there personal aircraft. In this case no money is exchanged for the use of the airplane.
 
Yes.

Pierre,
What about another situation: Can a CFII give me instrument instruction in my own RV (RV has IFR pitot/static currency and suitable nav and gyro gear)? Buddy at the airport said this was not allowed.... but I really do not know?
Thanks,
John Severyn

.....a CFII can give you instruction in your own RV toward that rating AND you can take the checkride in it if you can find an examiner who'll do it. It's not prohibited by FAR's.

Scott is correct in that you cannot use your RV for primary training for compensation. Another CFI, (Or you if you're a CFI) RV qualified, however, can use your RV to train your wife or other family member and charge for his time with you providing the airplane and fuel.

Ryan, it took a couple of weeks and another inspection during which I was issued new op-lims that include my being able to train for compensation and hire.

Regards,
 
FAA checkride

.....a CFII can give you instruction in your own RV toward that rating AND you can take the checkride in it if you can find an examiner who'll do it. It's not prohibited by FAR's.

This is a great post! I have had these thoughts in the back of my mind ever since my wife expressed and interest in learning. I am not a intructor but was hoping, once I build, that we could use the RV for her to learn while paying the CFI.

Does anyone know whether or not FAA checkride pilots have issue with doing this in RVs?
 
Adam:
Won't work. Transparent attempts to circumvent the regs are not looked kindly upon by the FAA. My take on this would be that an instructor taking this path might be putting his ticket in jeopardy.

Epsound:
If you're talking about ckeckrides thru the FSDO, they probably won't ride in an eqperimental. At the Detroit FSDO, examiners won't ride in an aircraft until is has been deemed "airworthy" by their maintenance staff. This involves examination of all aircraft logs as well as a review of AD compliance (a log entry stating "all ADs complied with" won't cut it.) The FAA here pretty much limits their rides to CFIA, CFII, and ATP activities. On the other hand, you may find a DE willing to ride in your homebuilt.
 
What Terry said.....

.....some CFI's won't ride in an experimental. I tried to get an instrument proficiency check from a man who runs a private flight school and he adamantly refused.."No way I'm riding in an experimental!!".. even tho' his 182's were ragged out and my airplane was brand new.

I found a CFII buddy with a Glassair and he gladly rode in my -6. They're out there but it's just a matter of finding them. This is where EAA chapter meetings help....finding them.

I'd rather avoid any contact with an FSDO anyway. Find a private examiner if at all possible.

Regards,
 
I see

It may just be my inexperience, but this sounds a bit like a 'racket' to me. After all, I don't see what all the hubub is about with experimental aircraft. Don't 'humans' put together and certify communicial aircraft as well, and doesn't the FAA inspect the experimentals as well? And so on. Seems like the regulation and some of the inspectors are a bit dated. It's almost like (GA) is a thorn in the side. I don't see much difference in learning and testing in either a commercial or an experimental. All the inspector really needs to do is check the panel to see if it has the required equipment. If regulation doesn't specify that a person has to learn in a 'commercial' aircraft, then we shouldn't be fighting an uphill battle to get a check-out in one.

Just my two cents...........

I'll be hoping to find someone like you did Pierre.
 
Yeah, I agree to a point

....but certified airplanes cost an awful lot of money and endure a lot of stability testing, trim response issues and a host of other tests to prove or disprove flight characteristics, which we don't have to go through or pay for.

Not only that but they have to prove that each and every subsequent airplane off the line is a virtual clone of the ones certified and they have to have enough in-house verifiable quality/consistency controls....all this raising the costs. Certified airplanes are a known quantity (or should be) and ours are not.

You also have to get past the mindset of folks who've only been around certed airplanes all their lives and have heard the "horror" stories about experimentals.....so we have a job to do to get them educated about the characteristics of our RV's. A friend of mine owns a Cirrus but after we flew my -6 around and taught him rolls and few other whifferdills, he had to have one, so it's being built in my hangar.

Regards,
 
Not to mention that the word" experimental" is not conducive to instilling confidence in some passengers.

Just as the term "uncontrolled" airport is being replaced with "non-towered," we should find a better word to replace experimental. And Amateur built is not it.

Just a wag but "custom" is better.
 
Transition Training

All of these points are correct, but there was one that was not mentioned. It is legal for you to hire a CFI to teach you or your family in your personal RV, as long as the aircraft is not in Phase One. I know I have been asked by RV?ers to ride with them in their maiden flight.

Alex De Dominicis
 
I hate to say this, but if you want to train someone in your own plane for free, you might want to read your insurance policy carefully 1st. Even if the FAA is ok with it, most (if not all) of the policies I've had on experimentals exclude 'training' from coverage. You might be able to get a rider for coverage if you ask. I actually found an underwriter once that would write an 'open pilot' policy on my -4. It was about 50% more expensive & I only kept it a year since I never actually needed to use it.

Charlie
 
RV-7A flight instruction

Hi Alex:

I read your post in the VAF forum and just wanted to make sure I got the information right. I built an RV-7A and have completed all of the fly-off time and now I want to have my son learn to fly. I will pay for his lessons but I just want to make sure I am correct in that he can learn to fly with a willing instructor in my RV-7A. I reviewed the FARs and it appears that is legal but I just wanted to make sure I am right.

Thanks,
Bill Near
 
Yup!

Hi Alex:
I read your post in the VAF forum and just wanted to make sure I got the information right. I built an RV-7A and have completed all of the fly-off time and now I want to have my son learn to fly. I will pay for his lessons but I just want to make sure I am correct in that he can learn to fly with a willing instructor in my RV-7A. I reviewed the FARs and it appears that is legal but I just wanted to make sure I am right.
Thanks,
Bill Near
You are absolutely correct! I regularly give instruction to students in their own planes, both certified and experimental. :cool:
 
I am interested in this subject myself. At some point, I would like to earn a CFI ticket and teach my wife, best friend, and possibly a few other friends in my own plane. It seems as long as I don't charge anyone for my services, I'd be OK using my own homebuilt for that purpose. Clearly the FAA would give me the riot act if I suddenly became very popular socially and started teaching 40 "friends" a year to fly for "free", but that is not my intention. And I'm certainly not THAT generous;).
One think what concerns me most is the required solo time. I would likely have a difficult time allowing anyone(but especially a new pilot with less that 30 hours flying time) to fly solo in a plane that I built. Not that I wouldn't have sufficient confidence in the plane, but the idea of letting a very green pilot fly my hand built baby troubles me on an emotional level. Would it be at the CFIs discretion what qualifies as solo flight in regards to training. If I were to be aboard and promised to shut up(not easy for me:D) and not interfere or play back seat driver in any way, could that legally be considered as solo flight? I could of course teach in my plane, but force the "trainee" to rent a certified plane for solo, but that would not only be logistically a pain in the butt for the new pilot to learn the different plane but partially defeats the point of trying to teach friends and family (more) affordably and easily.
Am I overly concerned about not letting new pilots flying solo in my scratch built pride and joy?

George
 
Am I overly concerned about not letting new pilots flying solo in my scratch built pride and joy?

George


I would be concerned about letting any solo student fly an RV regardless of who built it. If the student ever got behind the plane, the consequences could be much more dire than with a C152.
 
Solo

...
Would it be at the CFIs discretion what qualifies as solo flight in regards to training. If I were to be aboard and promised to shut up(not easy for me:D) and not interfere or play back seat driver in any way, could that legally be considered as solo flight?
...George
No, CFIs don't get that kind of discretion :rolleyes: Solo means you are the sole soul on board!
Now you know one of the reasons you don't hear about RV's being used for primary training :eek:
 
I agree with Sam....

I would be concerned about letting any solo student fly an RV regardless of who built it. If the student ever got behind the plane, the consequences could be much more dire than with a C152.

These are high performance airplanes even tho' they don't meet the FAA's definition of high performance. As has been pointed out as well, your insurance guy might have a coniption if you ask about coverage for a student as well:eek: Not a good idea in my book.

Regards,
 
That's "old" info...

They changed the whole program for this...
Call the EAA for additional details. You CAN provide primary flight instruction even to a zero time student now...

At least...this was according to the EAA employee who taught the recent course I took in Indianapolis last month.

So you can do it for free... or if you are a CFI....do it for pay.
 
They changed the whole program for this...
Call the EAA for additional details. You CAN provide primary flight instruction even to a zero time student now...

At least...this was according to the EAA employee who taught the recent course I took in Indianapolis last month.

So you can do it for free... or if you are a CFI....do it for pay.

Actually, I think you got wrong info...the person you received it from is mistaken.
The only way "primary" instruction can be give to a student in an experimental amateur built aircraft is to do it for no compensation. If this wasn't the case, then all the instructors that are doing transition training wouldn't need to apply for approvals to deviate from operating limitations (which they do). These approvals specifically state "transition training for already rated pilots only".

What was the course you were taking and who taught it?
 
I had a great experience

doing my IFR training in my own airplane..Well no actually that is a lie..I spent the first half scared out of my wits! The second half not believing flying an RV IFR was possible..and the last 5 minutes Thanking God for autopilots..:)

But in all seriousness, my DE was delighted to fly in the RV, he had "heard that RV's wern't very good instrument platforms"..No kidding?..And I saw him chuckling to himself as i wrestled with the beast..I screwed up the last approach and he said I did very well considering what I was flying..:)

As to the "Experimental thing" My Mother in Law was waiting for us in Co after we had just made our 1000mile trip from Oregon..Apparently she was chatting to some guy who owned a biz jet and as we were landing exclaimed there was no way he'd let his Daughter ride in "That thing!"..My Mom in law pointed out that when your a billionair you don't have to!..Cool..She gets a free ride..:)

Frank
RV7a IO360
 
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