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RV-10 doors

andrejv

Member
G?Day all,

I am a 3 time offender (two RV6?s and now a 10). I have about 1400 hrs on RV?s and 2000hrs TT. Never had an incident or accident till about a year ago when my passenger door flew open on T/O!!! I remembered Van?s advice to fly the plane and did a circuit. The passenger managed to grab the door as I turned downwind and applied rudder ? the slip helped close the door.

I sent a very detailed report to Van but no comment or reply. The RV10 is a magnificent A/C but the doors are its Achilles? heal!

Over the past year I put my thinking cap on and came up with a very simple but highly effective solution. I have passed it on to Ken and Richard but still no reply. Thought I might share the solution with this forum as I believe ALL RV10?s should have a similar device. It can only improve A/C safety.

I got to thinking that the bonnet of a car has the same potential to cause total havoc if it were to open during travel. A car bonnet has a safety latch which automatically engages when the bonnet closes.

My door latch works in a similar fashion:

First there is a striker plate that is secured onto the lower cabin frame (as seen below). The fiberglass of the cabin door entry has to be reduced both vertically and on the inside, to accommodate the plate, which is "Z" shaped in cross section, so as to provide some undercut on the inside of the door jamb (which engages the latch on the door). The striker plate is pop riveted and epoxied into place - an easy retro-fit.

http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39472qo0.jpg

The top of the plate is at the same level as the edge of the lower cabin frame.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39422fc2.jpg

Next the door latch was made up - I cut a hole in the inner door skin and made the latch as seen below. The latch pivots on a U-shaped bracket secured to the base of the door and there is a powerful hinge spring that ensures that the latch engages the undercut of the Z-plate. The name "Staniforth latch" is to honour the poor victim who was sitting in the plane when the door unexpectedly opened!!!!! I recently asked him to come for a fly (and to see his latches) but strangely, he refused!!

http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39492gw2.jpg

The wire spring can just be seen in the photo below.

http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39462nm1.jpg

As the door closes, the spring loaded latch lifts over the striker plate and then drops down and engages the undercut of the striker plate. Very simple, works every time; it cannot not work!!

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39442xo6.jpg

Both the striker plate and latch are made of stainless steel.

Note the undercut on the latch in the photo below.

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39452ip0.jpg

It also has a rod that exits through the outside door skin (sticks out about an inch) so that it can be deactivated when opening the door from outside.

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39392os9.jpg

The latch has three functions, one expected and two not:

(i) once the door closes, there is an obvious "clunk" as the spring loaded latch engages the striker plate and drops into place, and even if the pilot/passenger fail to close the main door latch (pins), the door cannot open - this function I expected.

Additional (unexpected) functions are:

(ii) once the latch/striker have engaged, it pulls the door inward SO THAT THE DOOR PINS HAVE NO OPTION BUT TO ENGAGE - this overcomes the problem of the opening effect of the gas strut and the door seal pushing the rear of the door outward, and the rear pin failing to engage.

(iii) in-flight, the latch carries load. This means that the doors actually flex outward because of aerodynamic forces, which are carried by the latch! I have tried to open the safety latch in-flight and they become really tight because of the load they are carrying. This reduces the forces that have to be carried by the door pins.

At a recent SAAA (Australia) fly-in I had several RV10 builders have a look at my plane and especially the doors, and comments were very favorable. All of the other three RV10's at the meeting, had damage to the fibreglass associated with the rear door pins!!

BTW, I have fitted an air-conditioning unit and this really increases comfort in this very, very hot country - a MUST, I would say! I fitted a FlightLine system and it works as advitised!

Cheers

Andre Viljoen
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Welcome To VAF

Nice, clean, simple idea mate! I like your quote; "It cannot not work!"
 
Last edited:
Andre,

Very nice feature...now for the question. Where did you find the latches or did you make them yourself?
 
Rv 10 door latches

Hi Rick

I made the latch on the door from a stainless steel, u-shaped piece of metal which I bent to form the 'head' of the latch and my LAME welded it up and sandblasted it, then welded a hinge onto it as well as the rod that sticks through the door for outside access. The part on the fuse door entry is just flat S/S plate, bent into a 'Z' shape so as to provide undercut for the latch on the door.

It would be nice if Vans or someone would make a retrofit kit - they work so well and give me such peace of mind - I just don't have the time to get involved myself, however.

Regards

Andre
 
Australian RV-10 Door latch

I like everything about this latch. I like the lock, the protective backing plate and of course the strong, positive latch. My doors close and I can latch them, but it has to be done slowly, carefully or only one pin will engage. The latch mechanism is difficult to operate. Once it is painted I am sure the area around the latch will be soon scratched. Finally I have no locks which all certified aircraft have. Can you tell me, and others how you did the lock?

I sure hope that Van's Aircraft will get behind your ideas.

Hank
 
This has always been a question for me

In a word, nice.
I have question this concern since I built my doors. Having built my beautiful RV 6A I have noticed in flight the buldge of the canopy even with the stiffeners supplied in the kit. My friends Rv6a has the same issue and does not have the stiffeners in place.
With this knowledge it is only fair to think the same pressures will exist and buldge these doors on the 10. Upon my question to Vans, Kens only comment to me was Properly latch your doors. Ok cool. I personally think we will be seeing and hearing more and more about this issue.I have a young family and a large insurance policy in which I do not care to have used.I will be making a simular mod as this existing door latch system does not seem safe to me.Living high in the mountains with winds aloft and sheers with out warning will flex this craft in my opinion, and the added shock force, I don't want to think about the doors and will they hold.
My first flight is a few weeks away, and this aircraft is very well made. Vans has again put out an awesome kit. I personally believe in them and trust what they tell me. But my inner gut says add a mod on the latching system.
I'm glad to hear you landed without a problem,and good luck on your mod. Dave RV10 Carson City Nv
 
Hi Hank and Dave

Thank you for you comments.

I will go out to the airport on the weekend and take some measurements and get some better photos - I will remove the "Staniforth" plate so you can get a better idea as to how the latch attaches and how the spring works. I will then write up and post the steps I took to make the latch.

If there are 250 RV10's out there, there are 498 doors just waiting to fly open!!!! No amount of diligence on the part of the pilot will prevent them from flying open sooner or later. At the time of the event, I even had the Van's alarm system installed - but it was an extremely hot day (pilot stress, hence I now have air-conditioning) with a very, very high light intensity and I guess I must have missed the warning light on the dash!! Or maybe the warning lights weren't working - I've had a few problems with the wiring in that area. Point is, planes should be as fool-proof as possible.

And you are right Dave, the latch takes up a significant load in flight - on the ground when the doors are locked you can move them up and down against the spring easily - in-flight you cannot budge them because of the load they are carrying! The doors are in fact very flexible and bulge outwards in flight. The latch certainly reduces the load that the pins have to carry which must be a good thing.

Cheers

Andre
 
Latch design

Went out to the A/P recently and took a few more photos with the latch cover off - hopes this helps with understanding the design.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83120866kx1.jpg

The photo above shows the latch with the cover plate removed and we can see:
* Two stainless steel ?L? shaped brackets that have been bolted and epoxied to the base of the door.
* An AN3 bolt goes through a rod welded to the inner edge of the latch to make a hinge.
* On top of the latch is a rod that protrudes through the outer skin of the door.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=70296171dk7.jpg

This is a shot from underneath showing the rod that goes through the door for external opening. Also note how the spring goes into the head of the latch. The spring is essential for the latch to work. Also seen are the two countersunk bolts that secure the ?L? shaped brackets.

http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp41302gq7.jpg

Here the latch is being held up from the outside ? note the powerful spring that pulls the latch downwards and ensures that it engages securely with the striker plate.
 
I like it, but---

One thing is this design concerns me.

You cut a window in the carbon reinforcement strip in the lower door. Vans put that carbon there for a reason------
 
Rv 10 doors

Thanks for the extra shots. Over the week end I met with a designer and a A/P. We spent several hours working the doors with different pressures. They seem to do well untill all of a sudden we achieved failure.I stressed them hard. When simulating the buldge( if you will,) i blew the door right out. I ripped right through the teflon guides. In all we determined the pins are strong enough just not long enough.A center latch is a must for me. I'm constructing a mod to the handle to give added strenth to the panel with out cutting the door.This device will be easy to install over the existing handle and create a three point door lock and help line up the pins for a secure fit. I also used a different sensor with a ground break to insure all pins are where they are supposed to be. So far so good,I ordered new rods from Vans last week and I will install a little longer with less angle, and replace the teflon with stainless steel blocks. Thanks again Dave RV-10
 
RV10 doors

Hi Dave

I love the way ideas come out of these forums - after reading your post I will be replacing my door pins with ones that have hardly any angle or chamfer at the ends - I think an excessive angle may well be part of the reason that the doors can fail in-flight - as the doors bulge or flex outwards, eventually the chamfered ends of the pins ride up and pop out. With a central latch providing initial door closure, there is no need for excessive pin chamfer because the latch holds the door closed and the pins have no option but to go into their holes.

Thanks for the tip!

Cheers

Andre
 
Billet Door Pin Lock Photos?

Anyone have some photos of the Rivethead/ Ifly billet door pin locks mounted? How do you like them? Did you cut the rods off at the start of the taper for the threads of the stainless shaft nose pieces.
 
Here is a picture of a Rivethead one. I cut/shortened my rods to where they do not go past the door frame. If the pins are extended with the door open and the door is closed, the skin of the airplane is not beat up. Sorry, this is the best picture I have.

rivethead.gif
 
I don't have a picture handy, but I left my rods longer. I basically just cut off the angled portion plus enough so that the pins don't hit the blocks when you shut the door. I left them long enough that they protrude through the cabin structure by about 3/8"

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
 
I have the IflyRV10 blocks and left the rods as long as possible. They protrude the length of the screw-in pin with the magnet in the tip plus a touch more past the structure. They just clear the blocks with the door handle in the open position. Don't have pictures available right now, but will send some when I get home.
Yes, they will probably ding up the door frame/paint if someone tries to shut the door with the handle in the "closed" position, but I am pretty comfortable that the doors will not open in flight. I also have the IflyRV10 billet handles and locks and am very happy with them.
 
I'll trim my pushrods to leave as long as possible. I had to mill down the plates a bit to clear the doors. I've also devised a simple safety lock which comes down with the main handle as extra insurance.

No way I want to do another set of doors! They are a nasty job- almost as bad as the cabin top.

Thanks for the feedback guys.
 
Simple Safety Latch Design

I've seen some complicated supplementary latch designs here. I just added a couple strips of 3/16 X 1.25 aluminum 90 degrees to the main latching handle. As the handle goes down, these overlap the door jamb directly below. Dirt simple and nothing to fuss with. A lot safer if a passenger had to get out in an emergency.
 
I've seen some complicated supplementary latch designs here. I just added a couple strips of 3/16 X 1.25 aluminum 90 degrees to the main latching handle. As the handle goes down, these overlap the door jamb directly below. Dirt simple and nothing to fuss with. A lot safer if a passenger had to get out in an emergency.

Pictures? You know it's against the rules to come up with a new design and not post pictures with it!:rolleyes:
 
I'll snap some tomorrow and try to post them here.

Anyone could retrofit these easily. Just have to remove the handles and drill two holes through them with a drill press.
 
I'll snap some tomorrow and try to post them here.

Anyone could retrofit these easily. Just have to remove the handles and drill two holes through them with a drill press.

That is what I is was wondering.Thanks and while you are at it why don't you post some pictures of your plane!!
 
Ok, more photos. I have the doors on finally sans windows so it's starting to look kinda complete. Pretty much just the plexi left to bond in and a few small jobs to do like the stab support doubler and lots of filling pinholes :mad: and I'm ready to transport the fuselage out to the airport in early Fall.

Assembly may be delayed a bit as construction of my new larger hangar is 6 months behind schedule and I don't have room for both aircraft in the present one. Also moving my shop to the airport to dodge the big rent increases and taxes in the city. That's going to soak up some time.

I do think it will be ready to fly in 2009 sometime.:)
 
Looking good and nice idiot proof method of making sure the door is shut! The engine install looks nice and clean! I like the scoop also!
 
G?Day all,

I am a 3 time offender (two RV6?s and now a 10). I have about 1400 hrs on RV?s and 2000hrs TT. Never had an incident or accident till about a year ago when my passenger door flew open on T/O!!! I remembered Van?s advice to fly the plane and did a circuit. The passenger managed to grab the door as I turned downwind and applied rudder ? the slip helped close the door.

I sent a very detailed report to Van but no comment or reply. The RV10 is a magnificent A/C but the doors are its Achilles? heal!

Over the past year I put my thinking cap on and came up with a very simple but highly effective solution. I have passed it on to Ken and Richard but still no reply. Thought I might share the solution with this forum as I believe ALL RV10?s should have a similar device. It can only improve A/C safety.

I got to thinking that the bonnet of a car has the same potential to cause total havoc if it were to open during travel. A car bonnet has a safety latch which automatically engages when the bonnet closes.

My door latch works in a similar fashion:

First there is a striker plate that is secured onto the lower cabin frame (as seen below). The fiberglass of the cabin door entry has to be reduced both vertically and on the inside, to accommodate the plate, which is "Z" shaped in cross section, so as to provide some undercut on the inside of the door jamb (which engages the latch on the door). The striker plate is pop riveted and epoxied into place - an easy retro-fit.

http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39472qo0.jpg

The top of the plate is at the same level as the edge of the lower cabin frame.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39422fc2.jpg

Next the door latch was made up - I cut a hole in the inner door skin and made the latch as seen below. The latch pivots on a U-shaped bracket secured to the base of the door and there is a powerful hinge spring that ensures that the latch engages the undercut of the Z-plate. The name "Staniforth latch" is to honour the poor victim who was sitting in the plane when the door unexpectedly opened!!!!! I recently asked him to come for a fly (and to see his latches) but strangely, he refused!!

http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39492gw2.jpg

The wire spring can just be seen in the photo below.

http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39462nm1.jpg

As the door closes, the spring loaded latch lifts over the striker plate and then drops down and engages the undercut of the striker plate. Very simple, works every time; it cannot not work!!

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39442xo6.jpg

Both the striker plate and latch are made of stainless steel.

Note the undercut on the latch in the photo below.

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39452ip0.jpg

It also has a rod that exits through the outside door skin (sticks out about an inch) so that it can be deactivated when opening the door from outside.

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp39392os9.jpg

The latch has three functions, one expected and two not:

(i) once the door closes, there is an obvious "clunk" as the spring loaded latch engages the striker plate and drops into place, and even if the pilot/passenger fail to close the main door latch (pins), the door cannot open - this function I expected.

Additional (unexpected) functions are:

(ii) once the latch/striker have engaged, it pulls the door inward SO THAT THE DOOR PINS HAVE NO OPTION BUT TO ENGAGE - this overcomes the problem of the opening effect of the gas strut and the door seal pushing the rear of the door outward, and the rear pin failing to engage.

(iii) in-flight, the latch carries load. This means that the doors actually flex outward because of aerodynamic forces, which are carried by the latch! I have tried to open the safety latch in-flight and they become really tight because of the load they are carrying. This reduces the forces that have to be carried by the door pins.

At a recent SAAA (Australia) fly-in I had several RV10 builders have a look at my plane and especially the doors, and comments were very favorable. All of the other three RV10's at the meeting, had damage to the fibreglass associated with the rear door pins!!

BTW, I have fitted an air-conditioning unit and this really increases comfort in this very, very hot country - a MUST, I would say! I fitted a FlightLine system and it works as advitised!

Cheers

Andre Viljoen

Hi Andre,

Read with great interest your door mod to enhance safety. Would it be possible to market a kit for this needed improvement?

It would be a good service for all the RV 10 owners and builders.

Tayana [email protected]
 
Vans has since added it as a service bulletin and includes a similar solution in their kit.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf

Most RV-10's that I've seen do not have it installed. In fact one aircraft had a door come open with it, so it's proven to not be completely fool proof.

Most folks are installing Sean's kit from PlaneAround. His approach isn't on keeping the door closed as much as it to provide a fool-proof system to make sure the latch pins are fully and properly engaged.

Phil
 
Vans has since added it as a service bulletin and includes a similar solution in their kit.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf

Most RV-10's that I've seen do not have it installed. In fact one aircraft had a door come open with it, so it's proven to not be completely fool proof.

Most folks are installing Sean's kit from PlaneAround. His approach isn't on keeping the door closed as much as it to provide a fool-proof system to make sure the latch pins are fully and properly engaged.

Phil

I can't recommend Sean's latch highly enough. I heard that there was already a case in which Van's new safety latch didn't work as intended, but I don't have any first hand knowledge and so that may just be a rumor. Sean's latch also doesn't penetrate the outside door skin. With the other solutions, I would be concerned about water and perhaps critters getting in through that cut out. If water gets in, there is no way for the water to exit other than evaporation.
 
I was the first builder to install Vans secondary door latch. Thought they were great, till I discovered that it is still possible to not get the rear pin seated correctly. Switched to Sean's cam lock. A much better solution in my opinion.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Retrofit Van's door safety latch with plane around solution

When inserting planearound.com center cam does it go in front off or behind Van's standard door safety latch? Were you able to just remove Van's latch (C-1018) and leave the C1021A with inside doubler in place?

Thanks
Gerald
N710WH
 
Sean's cam position overlaps the Van secondary latch. Remove the Van latch, leave the doubler in place, and install Sean's cam per his instructions. Works fine. You will need to patch the slot where the Vans lever extends through the exterior side of the door.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
SB location

Thanks Jim,

I was trying to help Gerald by looking for my Service Bulletin instructions. I still can't find them.:confused: I wasn't sure if other builders have installed the SB and then PlaneAround's
 
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