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Space For Back Riveting

skelrad

Well Known Member
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Before I modify the wrong work bench for a back rivet plate and kick myself later: I have no idea of the size of parts that can be back riveted and how much room is necessary. I have one permanent 2' deep bench that is up against a wall and one about the same depth that is open around all sides. I'd prefer to use the bench against the wall, but not sure if the wall will be a problem if there are big/awkward parts.

Will a bench against a wall make dealing with parts difficult, or are most parts that lend themselves to back riveting small enough that a 2' bench against the wall is ok? (building a 9)
 
Did not modify bench

I didn't modify a bench to take the back riveting plate and just kept it loose so it can be located and rotated wherever it is needed at the time. Most of the back riveting is on the empennage and control surfaces for the wing and thereafter there is not much use for the plate, other than the possibility of doing the firewall that way if you want to.

You can create a level surface around the edge of the plate with several loose plywood blocks of the appropriate thickness, if desired.

I know other builders rebate a bench top to hold the plate; I did not and there hasn't been any disadvantage that I've encountered. Actually I prefer the flexibility of being able to move it around and also store it out of the way when it is not being used.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like there’s no real reason to make anything all that permanent, so I’ll just leave the benches alone for now. This pondering is from the problem of having too much time on my hands while I wait for my tail kit will arrive!
 
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I found a long piece of rolled steel at a local supplier ($10) and a couple pieces of carpet of equal thickness at Home Depot. Works great!

P.S. It was just a coincidence that the length of the steel matched the width of my bench! :)
 

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I have a fairly large steel plate. Maybe 1x2 feet. The problem is its 1/4" thick, so flexes ever do slightly. Doesn't cause any issues with the plane, but the rivets don't drive very quickly. I'd like a smaller plate that's a bit thicker. Don't want it too heavy tomcat it's no longer mobile.
 
Platform

The platform with a cut out works pretty well. Mine is a section of 1/4" plywood about 2'X4'. Basically turns any surface into a back rivet plate. One piece of advise. Draw lines extending from the edges of the cut out to the edges of the platfom. Use them to identify the edge of the plate. Only takes one miss to teach that lesson. Not that I made that mistake.:D

Alternate back rivet method may be found on my blog, Kitplanes Tips.
 
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I go a bit more "belt and suspenders". Just put the plate on the concrete floor of the garage and surround it as needed with scraps of 1/2" plywood. Arrange the wood depending on where you are riveting on the part.

This allows you to get right on top of the gun, and even use your head to hold up the opposite skin!

Yeah, you're on your knees for about ten minutes, but nothing beats a "rock solid" concrete floor for zero flex.

When you're done, just put the plate back in the drawer or cabinet.
 
I modified one of my benches to inset the plate. I have two plates that I made from some scrap 3/8" sheet. Both are about 20" long, one is maybe 8" wide and the other about 6". I found myself using the plate which was not inset into the bench more often than the other, due to the fact that It's much easier to move it around and orient it as necessary. Eventually I removed the one in the bench, and "flipped" the sacrificial surface of the bench over to make it a smooth again. I'm much happier with this setup, now I have two plates which I can use on my portable tables or on the fixed workbenches in the shop as needed.
 
Don't get hung up on creating the perfect back-riveting bench. No such thing. Think flexibility. So far in my emp kit I've done about a third of my back-riveting on my perfect riveting bench, the rest has been improvised elsewhere using bits of plywood as spacers and shims.

But so you know, I built EAA tables with 24x48 tops, then took a piece of MDF at 24x48 and cut a hole in that for the plate. It just sits on the bench to be used, or stores away easy and leaves me a clean bench. I also went with a bigger plate, about 6x18 at 1/2" thick. Bit of a pain to move at that weight, but it does not bend or bounce at all.
 
I never have had a back riveting plate. I use my table saw top. For big sheets I set up some of the same things used for long boards.
 
What Larry said.

One of my biggest elevator dings was back riveting the skin off the plate by half an inch. Big dent. Wished I had gone to local steel shop and just bought a long steel strip as others mentioned (e.g. 2 feet long) with layout lines way past the table so you always know where you are with the big skin on the table, that covers the plate while in use.
 
I have a fairly large steel plate. Maybe 1x2 feet. The problem is its 1/4" thick, so flexes ever do slightly. Doesn't cause any issues with the plane, but the rivets don't drive very quickly. I'd like a smaller plate that's a bit thicker. Don't want it too heavy tomcat it's no longer mobile.

I went even larger. 2' x 4' 1/4 steel. It has two large steel C channels welded on the long runs, both for mounting and to stiffen it. I also put a layer of Dynomat on the bottom to knock down a the noise. I've had it for nearly 15 years and don't think I could go back to a 'normal' backrivet plate.

PXL_20210312_030500702.jpg
 
Arriving to the party a little late

I use a Cleveland back rivet modification to an Avery C-Frame. This is mostly put together with some scrap wood I had laying around.

I'm building in a 1/2 of a 2 car garage, and space is tight. It breaks down completely, and you never back rivet off the edge of the plate. "Extenders" can be clamped under the "upper temp" table allowing a sheet to be supported in a number of orientations.

I also use this setup for dimpling sheets, so it's useful for 2 types of jobs.
 

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That looks pretty slick. I've been doing the same thing for the 1/8" AN470s, factory heads CAREFULLY placed in the cup of the die. Not the quickest as I'm constantly checking placement after every strike, but sets really nice shop heads.
 
Any piece of COLD rolled steel from a steel supply wo do fine. 3/8" is plenty thick.
Break and smooth the edges on at least one side so material will slide smoothly over the edge.
No need to inset into a table. As others have said, a piece of plywood a little thinner with carpet or cloth on it. Let the steel stand a little proud of the surrounding material. That way any rivets just off the steel will fall out.

I back riveted everything I could with a smaller hand held flat steel plate. It was a 1" thick 2 x 2 piece of steel with the edges smoothed so as not to scratch. Use a back rivet set to stay on the rivet tail.
 
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