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Why wont Vans build us a Rocket??

R

rv72004

Well Known Member
I know the Rocket is a fantastic total performance plane. Why has Vans never put one out ?? Would it not be a good seller?
Lets face it most of us yearn for one .........
 
I agree. Not all of us want six cylinder fuel consumption. However I am one that does!! I think Vans would be quite surprised at how much interest there is for pilots wanting to launch, and I too am surprised that there is not an RV-?, to fill this niche.
 
You might as well ask "Why won't Cessna build you an RV?" Becasue it is not what they do....;)
 
I think I saw somewhere

Thats on an MPG basis the 6 cylinder rockets were better than 4 banger RV's..At least running LOP.

I can't believe its a big market though..Although my next 2 seat RV might have an IO540 in it..:)

Frank
 
Not worth the risk in Van's eyes I guess

Richard VanGrunsven is a very wise and conservative aircraft designer and manufacturer. His decisions are very good so far. I suspect he wants to produce an RV-11 motor glider much more than a rocket but the emerging crop of customer built RV-12s with all of the new product problems it surely will have must be focused on at this time. The way it is introduced into the fleet cannot be handed off to anyone but the best people in the company. How this goes will determine the reputation and the future of the company. Van's Aircraft is not a hobby business anymore ... but you know all that, you're just wishin' and hopin'. If you have a sincere desire to build a rocket I would hold off for an anouncement of a resumption of production by Mark Frederick (F1BOSS in this forum) and jump on the first availability. He has hinted at a new model with a carbon fiber wing. He is definitly aiming at the high end market and from my view is a very good man to depend on for a great airplane.

Bob Axsom
 
My 2 cents

rv72004 said:
I know the Rocket is a fantastic total performance plane. Why has Vans never put one out ?? Would it not be a good seller?
Lets face it most of us yearn for one .........
Click to expand...

I think is more a matter of ROI. Look at how all of us went orgasmic over the Stewart P-51 but that burned out rather quickly as it was a niche market product. The Rocket/RVX is the same. Sure it will garner enthusiastic responses adoring crowds but that is irrelevant when it comes to business. Vans tacit motto is: Show me the money.
Don
 
rv72004 said:
I know the Rocket is a fantastic total performance plane. Why has Vans never put one out ?? Would it not be a good seller?
Lets face it most of us yearn for one .........
Click to expand...

Ahhh, an RV-7 driver yearns for a Rocket while this Cherokee driver yearns for an RV-7 ;) We all wish for more than what we've got, I guess.

Van's themselves don't really need to directly offer a Rocket, since there already exists someone offering ways of building a Rocket (http://www.harmonrocket.com), or a Super 8 Fastback (http://www.showplanes.com/RV8Conversion2.htm).

I've never been in a Rocket but I have ridden in a Super 8 Fastback before. It was phreakin' awesome. Still I yearn for a -7 which is still far out of my financial reach.
 
RVP-51

Why won't someone build a P51 mod kit for an RV8? I think that would have a lot of interest.

Bevan
RV7A
 
Would that be a side-by-side rocket or a tandem rocket?

As already stated, ROI is what it's all about. Van's does not build niche aircraft, per say.

Kind of funny how well three aircraft on the other end of that spectrum are doing, the RV-12, RV-10, & RV-9.
 
maybe not a rocket, but how bout a "fastback" for the 8? I'm sure it ends up being mostly cosmetic in the end, but it couldn't be that expensive to engineer could it? I think more people would choose that over the standard model, but i just recently proved how i can type without knowledge on a subject so who knows whether im right here or not. :)

edit- and it would add more room (storage) to the plane i would think, not any extra weight capacity so it might not really be a big difference but for bulky items it could.
 
I had something of this conversation with Van at last years Homecoming----

Basically, he likes the Rocket, said it is a nice plane to fly, but he is concerned that its performance is above the skill level of way too many pilots.

I agree that he could sell a bunch of them, though trying to see it from his point of view, the liability issue is probably excessive for the sales gain.
 
Danny7 said:
maybe not a rocket, but how bout a "fastback" for the 8? I'm sure it ends up being mostly cosmetic in the end, but it couldn't be that expensive to engineer could it?
Click to expand...

This place sells the fastback 8 conversion kit for just under $3K. http://www.showplanes.com/RV8Conversion2.htm

Here's the Fastback Super 8 that I got to ride in once: http://www.showplanes.com/rv8_redtop.htm

It's roomy, comfortable, and *very* fast.
n88xl_021_1.jpg
 
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Well, obviously I would probably choose such a factory option if it was available, but in all reality given the entire total cost that it takes to build a complete RV-8, a $3K 3rd party add-on kit is not really an overly huge extra expense. A couple AMUs is still a significant chunk of cash, yes, but not really too painfully exorbitant if you really want your RV-8 to stand out amongst the crowd.
 
Its just that the DNA of a rocket is very close to a Vans so a added model is not a complete rework. I dont see the performance affecting skill level. The rate of descent and stall [roughly] are the factors that conclude a hot aircraft. Ive spoken to many rocket pilots and all say the rocket is just as easy to fly, with a couple saying its actually easier because of the more solid feel.
A while back I did a ntsb survey of accidents and fatalities, and the RV wasnt far behind the "Hot" Glasair in % fatalities to accidents. So there goes the liability theory.
Also they dont sell so well because 1] you cant buy a quickbuild and
2] very expensive kit when available
After reading everyones comments I still see no real argument.
I WANT A ROCKET , QUICKBUILT, FROM VANS ....o well at least I can dream.
icon7.gif
 
There are several on Barnstormers....

....with one at only $80,000...a steal, barely parts cost, if that.

Regards,
 
Rocket, but not rocket fuel

What I want is "Rocket" performance on two less cylinders, or close to it. And, no added cost; equivalent stall speeds, and better overall handling. That's the ticket!
 
Bill Wightman said:
What I want is "Rocket" performance on two less cylinders, or close to it. And, no added cost; equivalent stall speeds, and better overall handling. That's the ticket!
Click to expand...

What is "'Rocket' performance"?

Is that faster cruise speeds, climb, VNE, what?

From reading what the racers are getting out of their "stock" RV's by doing some aerodynamic clean up, they are close to Rocket performance in cruise but will never get there in climb w/o the bigger engines.

Dan and others, what are your thoughts?
 
CAFE Triaviathon

I am surprised that Dave Anders RV4 is rarely mentioned in these discussions. John Harmon held the CAFE record for four years in the HRII. Dave broke this record with his highly modified four cylinder RV4. 6 m/h faster, 11 m/h slower stall and only 22 ft/min less climb than the HRII. cafefoundation.com for more info. Dave has been very generous is giving out information on his mods.
 
There has certainly been lots of attention given to rockets lately. I have been flying rockets since 1998 and have been at the controls of at least eleven of them. Each and every one was a delight to fly. There is no mystery to performance; it is simply a function of a clean design combined with a great power to weight ratio.
For those of you who are really interested in a quick build rocket let Mark Fredrick know. He has a great product and has been wonderful to deal with. Given enough genuine interest I am sure that production would start again. This is such a fantastic airplane that I would really love to see what the next generation would be like.
 
Tom, given your experience: a previous post asked what "rocket performance" would be. How would you quantify the difference between, say, a 200HP RV8 and a 260HP rocket? (Cruise speed / climb rate / stall speed - all the usual stuff sport pilots want to know)
 
I went from 900ft. MSL to 10.5K flying Mark Frederick's F1 in less than 3 minutes... Does that tell you what you want to know? :D

Its the finest flying machine I've ever flown. Super 8 comes fairly close, I've flown one of those also....
 
Tom's is top of the line as is John Huft's RV-8

Tom Martin's EVO Rocket is top of the line as is John Huft's RV-8. If you compare these two airplanes in races where they both flew you would have a good idea of the performance margin between the uncompromising examples of the RV-8 and the EVO Rocket. For the regular F1 rocket You could use Wayne Hadath's Rocket for comparison. The race by race results of all SARL sanctioned races for the past 2.5 years are listed at www.sportairrace.org.

Bob Axsom
 
I would like to see someone design a rocket based on the pre-punched RV-8 kit. Beefed up spar, shorter wings with longer ailerons and a beefed up fuselage center "box" that can be implemented in the current RV-8 kit. +/- 9G at a gross of 1900 lbs and a VNE around 275 MPH. It should have a rocket style gear on the engine mount so you can do away with the gear box and put the rudder pedals where they should be. Is this too much to ask? :)
 
To Stay King

First Axiom of being a King,
Feed the Masses, let the Rich fend for themselves, and the poor...ah you know, do without!
 
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