What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Advices Needed Before Engine Install

PhatRV

Well Known Member
I am doing the various preparation to my new IO360-M1B engine before installing it onto my RV8. I am looking for the advices from those who have done this before to what precautions I should take to install the engine without damage.

I have read the various posts about mounting the engine with the tail down or tail up in order to make the installation easier. I will probably determine the best attitude when that day arrives, and also based on the available help I can muster that day.

I notice on my engine, most of the rear accessories are already mounted such as oil filter, magnetos, etc. Should I remove these equipment from the rear of the engine in order to make the installation easier? Or by removing them before hand, it would make the accessory reinstallation difficult?

In term of removing the sparkplug to drain the preservation oil, what is the recommended torque value to reinstall the plug?

I am looking forward to hear all the advices you guys can give,

Thanks
 
Read through all the engine "how to's" here on VAF to help you prep - such as this recent post by Draker, where I had the pleasure to help the install.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1488835&postcount=4

Don't remove the mags, etc ... all the pre-installed installed items can stay in place and be sure to add the hard to install items, like the oil pressure fitting prior to install.

For torques and things, post a copy of the relevant pages of the Lycoming SSP-1776 (https://www.lycoming.com/special-service-publication-no-1776-5) doc that gives specs for the torques of all items on the engine.

Like primer, you mileage may vary but I've used the technique, below, twice with excellent success.

Hanging the engine
August 27, 2015; archived from"http://myrv8.com/2015/08/hanging-the-engine/" which does not seem active any more.

Short version is this: Their advice was to forget the procedure I’d been trying. Instead, they said, mount the two bottom bolts and isolators first. Only after that, use the lift to manipulate the engine and get the top ones in with the bolts lined up, and the isolators will be offset to the outside of the “cups” in the engine mount. Get a good heavy rubber mallet or a piece of 2x4 and heavier hammer, and start tapping the mounts to get them to slide laterally into the cups on the mount. Then move the engine relative to the air frame to get things to move into place and together, and get the bolts in. “You’ll never get it the way you’ve been trying,” I was told. Use the bottom-first method and I’d be done in a handful of minutes.


1. Prepare all the hardware. Make sure the (slightly) longer bolts will be used on the bottom mounts. The shorter ones go on top.

2. Note that the mount biscuits are of two types – one is a little less think and is harder, and the other is slightly thicker and a softer rubber. They look different. Refer to the drawing. Also, refer to the drawings, and then do so again. Don’t get this wrong. The engine’s weight load goes on the harder halves, meaning at the top mount points they are closest to the firewall/on the back side of the mount points, and on the bottom they are located on the front side of the mount, between the mount and the engine block. The side that gets squished by the weight when the engine is hanging on the mount in a positive-g, upright position is where the thinner/harder ones go.

3. Refer to the drawings. Know them well.

4. There are metal spacers tubes in the kit which you will use. Don’t forget them like I did with one. They slide onto the both in the gap between the mount halves and prevent the rubber mounts from squeezing too close together, and prevent them from bottoming out.

5. Hang your engine on the hoist. Remove any hoses or items that might get in the way.

6. Make sure you have inserted the oil pressure line’s restrictor AN fitting at the right top rear of the engine. It faces outboard and the 45-degree fitting needs to be inserted before you mount the engine or else you won’t be able to get it in there. Some engines (mine included) have a second port that faces directly aft, and you can put a straight restrictor fitting in there if you like. But check and make sure. Best to install it permanently before you mount the engine.

7. Move the engine into place on the hoist. Insert the lower mount rubber biscuits and the thick washers used on the lower mount points between the engine mount and the engine block first (these are the thinner/hard ones). Don’t forget those two washers that go on the bottom, and be sure to put the spacer sleeves on the bolts when you insert the bolts, the larger washers and the other half of the shock mounts on the aft side of the engine mount.

8. In my case, it was pretty easy to get the bottom mounts in place. Don’t worry about getting the rubber biscuits centered in the cups on the engine mount. Just get the bolts through them and into the holes in the engine. If they line up, great. If not, use a rubber mallet or a piece of 2x4 or similar block of wood with a hammer to tap the mounts in to place. Start with the ones on the engine side of the metal engine mount, then the ones on the aft side.

9. Tighten both bolts and nuts until they tighten down on the spacers.

10. Next, use the hoist to move the engine up and about level. Try to insert the bolts through the large washers/rubber pieces/spacers and the holes in the engine block. The last part will likely be difficult and there’s a very good chance that when you get the bolts just barely inserted in the engine, the rubber pieces will sit quite a bit outboard and not in the cups. Do your best to get things lined up and as pushed together as you can along the bolt axis.

11. Use the lift to raise and lower the engine a little bit at a time. Try to get things to further come together. In my case, I lifted the engine until the nose gear on the 8A was several inches off the ground, and all of a sudden things started to fit better. I was able to slide the rubber biscuits together more and the bolt went in just a little further. Not all the way, but enough to lower the whole things somewhat and have things stay in place.

12. Once back on the nose gear (and with the wheel barely touching the ground) I again took the 2x4 section and hammer and started working the rubber pieces into the centerline, tapping until they popped into place in the engine mount cups. Them some more raising and lowering to get things further aligned, and finally dropped the hole thing onto the gear, keeping just some weight on the hoist chain.

13. At this point I was able to get a socket wrench out and turn the bolt, which immediately threaded its way through the engine case holes and out the other side. Then came washers and nuts, and all was done.
 
Last edited:
I have had the pleasure recently of mounting my engine three different times. I can tell you for certain it is not as big a deal as it sounds. My technique is as follows:

1. upper left mount, torque almost until the mount bottoms.

2. upper right mount, torque almost until the mount bottoms. You may have to play around with how tight the other mount is to get this bolt in.

3. use the hoist to slightly lift the engine up just enough to slide in the necessary washer on the bottom and start the bolt. Usually this bolt doesn't fight too much. It will usually pop in once you take the weight of the engine off the hoist. Tighten until nut bottoms out.

4. The other bottom bolt is usually the toughest. Same process 3. You may have to play around with how far the other bolts are bottomed at this point. I also use a mirror to see how the hole is misaligned and use this info to tweak the other mounts.

The first time I did it it took about 45 min. The last time I did it. About 10 minutes.

P.S. Van's is now using non drilled bolts and all metal locknuts on most models. Highly recommend you at least do it on the bottom mounts. Those are reaaaaaaal treat to try and cotter! They are even worse to try and remove!
 
Thanks for very detailed answer. I will bookmark this page and refer to it again after I finish preping the engine.

Having downloaded the Lycoming torque document, does the torque value of the spark plug look right? It says the torque value is 420in-lbs.
 

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    38.9 KB · Views: 283
Thanks for very detailed answer. I will bookmark this page and refer to it again after I finish preping the engine.

Having downloaded the Lycoming torque document, does the torque value of the spark plug look right? It says the torque value is 420in-lbs.

That is correct for an aviation plug. Don't forget a new copper washer too.
 
That is correct for an aviation plug. Don't forget a new copper washer too.

+1 Same as 35 ft-lbs. Don’t forget a small amount of graphite lube on the threads, keep it away from the electrodes.
Also, even though the mags came installed, check their timing.
 
No forcing should be used.

Good background here, but read this too.

Don't think about mounting the engine as a one and done. I did not have the room in the basement so mounted the frame to the engine while it was on a lift hook. Instructions without understanding can work, but here is the physical perspective you need - - the mounts are focused, meaning the bolt axis meet at a single point, a focus. The farther you are from the focus, the father apart the holes become. This is why you begin to snug up two adjacent bolts, it allows the other two become close enough to insert the bolt. This is key.

IMPORTANT: it is much easier if you get/borrow the mount bolt bullets to align the holes for bolt insertion.

I solo mounted my engine in 15 minutes with the bolts snugged, on the hook. This means no forcing it into position.

Using an auto engine lift (cherry picker) with a threaded rod to level the engine made it super easy to repeatedly install to the firewall from the engine lift. This is much easier with all level but not required. No forcing was needed, but some alignment bolts make it really slick. Still done solo.

This way, you can easily remove the engine when you come across doing tasks that are so much easier with the engine off. Just leave it on the frame and remove at the firewall.

Now - getting the bolts torqued and aligned for a cotter pin is a real PITA.
 
Before you fire that thing up, check the magneto timing. My new IO-360 M1B mag timing was way off as received from Lycoming.
 
Before you fire that thing up, check the magneto timing. My new IO-360 M1B mag timing was way off as received from Lycoming.

+1 Same here

Mine was only off by about 3 degrees, but still, it needed fixed.
 
Oil Line Fitting for Oil Pressure

What is the fitting do you guys use to attach to the oil pump outlet so the oil cooler line + oil pressure sensor line can be attached? Can you provide the AN part number?

This is the oil port below the oil filter where I think the oil fitting should go which allow for the connection of the big oil line and the smaller oil pressure sensor AN fitting.

This is the oil pressure AN fitting to the sensor according to the plan.

Thanks
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_133715.jpg
    20210110_133715.jpg
    102.5 KB · Views: 281
  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    142.5 KB · Views: 334
What is the fitting do you guys use to attach to the oil pump outlet so the oil cooler line + oil pressure sensor line can be attached? Can you provide the AN part number?

This is the oil port below the oil filter where I think the oil fitting should go which allow for the connection of the big oil line and the smaller oil pressure sensor AN fitting.

This is the oil pressure AN fitting to the sensor according to the plan.

Thanks

The drawing lists VA-128. IT does NOT go anywhere on the image posted. The correct location is near the upper engine mount location on the crankcase behind the #3 cylinder.

Either the port shown or the one that has the plug in it will work. Plug the unused hole.

Need to find a drawing that shows the location of Lycomings recommended oil pressure location.

Here is an image on the web that I found that shows the location of the oil pressure fitting with restrictor.

iu


Unable to show the image but the link does work.

Use either ports show and plug the unused. I think my fitting is in the location of the plug on the image.
 
Last edited:
If the mount is anything like the -7 I HIGHLY recommend you put it in the port that faces aft (shown in the pic above). If you put it in the other one you cannot spin the fitting without removing the engine from the mount. (ie if you ever had an oil leak there)
 
Hmmm...

Great link from kitplanes with pictures. Is the diagram description correct when they say:

"Oil pressure is measured at the back of the engine in the accessory case by tapping into a 1/8-inch NPT hole located in the upper part of the case on the passenger side. While it is possible to tap into the oil system and measure pressure at other locations, this is the spot that Lycoming has prescribed and upon which their oil pressure guidelines are based. Oil temperature is measured by placing a probe in a specially provided hole above the vernatherm near where the oil filter attaches to the accessory case."

Seems like they're talking about oil pressure then switch to oil temperature. The diagram shows 3 as oil temp and 5 as oil pres. Port 5 is near the vernatherm. It's seems to be either "above the vernatherm" or "near where the oil filter attaches to the case".? Might be a typo but it's not clear to me.

Anyone know?


Key oil system components for a Lycoming engine: ➊ plug for return line from oil cooler, ➋ crankcase vent fitting, ➌ oil temperature sensor location, ➍ oil filter, ➎ plug for oil pressure sensor, ➏ oil pressure relief valve, ➐ plug for sump screen, ➑ plug for feed line to oil cooler.
 

Attachments

  • oil-pressure_10.jpeg
    oil-pressure_10.jpeg
    220.3 KB · Views: 262
Number 5 is for the oil pressure tap fitting.

Number 3 (red plastic cover on top of the oil filter) is where the oil temperature probe goes into.

I will post more pictures of my engine prep after getting home from work tonight.
 
Capping off the Prop Governor Accessory Drive

Because I am installing a Sensenich composite fixed-pitch propeller, I need to remove the governor drive and the oil line to prevent the oil pressure build up in the forward crank shaft.

This is the parts that must be removed
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_115846.jpg
    20210110_115846.jpg
    178.9 KB · Views: 216
These are the cover plate and gasket that seal this opening
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_124024.jpg
    20210110_124024.jpg
    281.1 KB · Views: 170
  • 20210110_124043.jpg
    20210110_124043.jpg
    262.2 KB · Views: 170
Last edited:
All button up. I also replaced the four lock washers with new washers per Lycoming instruction.
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_125802.jpg
    20210110_125802.jpg
    262 KB · Views: 222
Adding fuel fittings to the mechanical fuel pump.
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_133157.jpg
    20210110_133157.jpg
    147.9 KB · Views: 207
The oil pressure tap is installed right next to the right P-Mag.
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_151240.jpg
    20210110_151240.jpg
    118.1 KB · Views: 215
Last edited:
This is what the prop governor drive looks like
 

Attachments

  • 20210110_123825.jpg
    20210110_123825.jpg
    205.3 KB · Views: 189
Just me

Because I am installing a Sensenich composite fixed-pitch propeller, I need to remove the governor drive and the oil line to prevent the oil pressure build up in the forward crank shaft.

This is the parts that must be removed

I think if you remove this line, then you must make sure the inner crank plug has a hole in it for fixed pitch. if you leave this line and have the governor cover with the milled slot, than I think there is no need to do any crank changes, from what i understand.
 
This was the instruction from the Lycoming tech representative. I received the write up from him with all the part numbers that are needed to make the conversion. I am keeping the whole governor drive equipment in case I have the fund to convert my RV8 to constant speed.
 
Oil fittings:

Phat, you see that shiny, not painted, square plate above your P-Mag? The accessory drive? That plate on my new-from-the-factory-M1B-via-Vans was missing the gasket. It weeped oil and took me 50 hrs to finally discover the missing gasket. It would have been easier to notice/find if it leaked faster - amazing it leaked so little w/o a gasket!

I am probably the only lucky guy with this, BUT, since it is not painted, and no torque seal - you might consider checking it. Or air pressure testing the engine crankcase for leaks before you finally hang it. I chased leaks for 80 hrs. A drop will go a long ways . . .
 
Last edited:
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the warning. I will check for the gasket after I get home tonight. Hmm, this makes me wonder what else they forgot.
 
+1 Same as 35 ft-lbs. Don’t forget a small amount of graphite lube on the threads, keep it away from the electrodes.
Also, even though the mags came installed, check their timing.

According to Lycoming Service Instruction 1042AH, "Use a copper-based anti-seize compound or engine oil on spark plug threads starting two full threads from the electrode, but DO NOT use a graphite-based compound."
 
According to Lycoming Service Instruction 1042AH, "Use a copper-based anti-seize compound or engine oil on spark plug threads starting two full threads from the electrode, but DO NOT use a graphite-based compound."
Yikes! :eek: Who ya gonna trust? https://www.championaerospace.com/products/champion-tools/spark-plug-thread-lubricant

2612 Spark Plug Thread Lubricant
A high-temperature, graphited lubricant for application to spark plug installation threads to prevent galling and seizure. Sturdy plastic 4 fl. oz. bottle with brush attached to cap.
 
I hung my IO-540 this past weekend. The only advice I have for you is to ask for, and get, lots of help. I thought I knew what I was in for, and I might have been able to hang it with the help of my family over the course of an entire day. Maybe. But probably not. And certainly not as well as it turned out.

When I asked my hangar neighbor to borrow his engine hoist, he asked if I wanted a hand. I gladly accepted, as he has built 6 planes himself. When he came over, he brought another guy who is currently rebuilding a Maule from the ground up and is an A&P/IA. We did all the work in about 90 minutes and they walked me through the whole process. I learned a ton about things like "crowfoot" torque wrench attachments that I had never heard of or seen before, but which were essential to attaching the engine properly.

Most of all, simply having two experts looking over my shoulder gave me a ton of confidence that we were doing this correctly. If you ask around, I'm sure you can find plenty of volunteers who can help you out. I know that I will gladly return the favor to the next person who needs the help.
 
The engine is on the plane

I got the engine mounted to the airframe today. The entire job took about three hours, including rearranging the shop and moving the RV8 to outside the garage. I was able to mounted by myself. My friend came down with Covid and couldn't help out for obvious reason

I reread the posts in page 1 and they are very helpful, especially when I was struggling with the engine rubber mount.

Here are a couple of the pictures with the engine on the RV8. There are a couple of lesson learned in the next post.
 

Attachments

  • 20210116_104634.jpg
    20210116_104634.jpg
    391.3 KB · Views: 132
  • 20210116_112846.jpg
    20210116_112846.jpg
    393.8 KB · Views: 149
Lesson Learned

1. Airplane level attitude: I raised the rear on a saw horse which lowered the nose a bit. With this level attitude, I didn't have to climb high to work on the upper mount. The tall people can probably work with the tail down. Because I didn't put any counter weight at the back, any slight pressure on the engine will cause the airframe to tip forward. I had the engine hoist engaged so it wasn't the problem. With the tail down attitude, the nose heaviness wasn't a problem. The tail has some counterweight on it now.

2. Tool modification: I use the 5/8" box wrench to hold on the nut and torque from the bolt end with the ratchet wrench. The box wrench worked fine except when tighten the nut on the upper left side mount. The #4 cylinder valve rod cover didn't allow for much clearance when the bolt thread protruded past the nut. The wrench was grinded off into a taper shape so it could fit after the bolt end is showing at the torque amount.

3. In general, the difficulty of mounting the engine is due to being apprehensive about working on a part that costs more than anything single object in my garage, including the two cars. Getting some extra help would lessen the stress somewhat. Mounting the engine less difficult than I had feared. When the bolt didn't fit, I took a step back and giggled the hoist slightly up or down to allow the bolt to pass through. But in the end, it was all about trying to insert and to torque the four bolts.
 

Attachments

  • 20210116_113230.jpg
    20210116_113230.jpg
    126.8 KB · Views: 224
  • 20210116_113146.jpg
    20210116_113146.jpg
    77.6 KB · Views: 227
Back
Top