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Rattle Cans

RVF-84

Member
Question: has anyone used rattle cans (SW 988, SEM, etc.), exclusively, to prime their plane? If so, I'm curious how many cans you went through. I know there are numerous variables, model, QB v. standard, how heavy your application, were the skins primed, etc, etc...

I mean in no way, shape, or form to instigate a primer war, think of me as Switzerland, I'm just looking for relative number of cans used over the course of building a standard build RV.

Thanks in advance.

Peter Lashley
RV-8 - Empennage still at Van's :(
N88PL - reserved
 
Napa 7220

I have been using the NAPA 7220 exclusively. I am half way through my third case (6 cans per case) and expect that the remaining three will be enough to finish with some leftover.

I am just about done with my fuselage as far as needing primer. My wings were SB and my fuselage was QB. I also did not prime every part. I concentrated on the ribs and surfaces that sat against other surfaces and where disimilar metals meet. It has also been used on parts that are being painted in the interior of the fuselage. For that I'm using the Rustoleum Professional Line gray enamal paint over the primer. The two work well together.

There should be no reason to need much more than the 18 cans unless you go SB on the fuselage. In that case add a couple of cans.

If you go the NAPA route, check if it's on sale or ask for a mechanics price. I found it on sale and it was half price so I picked up two cases that day.

For those of you that don't like the way I'm priming, please keep it to yourself. I'm not interested in defending my priming habits, I'm too busy building my airplane :D
 
Yes, Peter.

Flash was primed with ~6 cans of MarHyde self etching primer. Lots on the tail, less on the wing, just a light dusting where parts touched on the fuse (standard built kit)....you get the picture :) . Very convienent and holding up fine...

Best,
Doug
 
I'd guess 4 - 6 cans - self-etching zinc cromate from West Marine. I had a QB, so I did the whole tail, then left the interior of the wings and fuselage like they came, and primed any non-alclad parts as they came along.

Paul
 
Oh Boy!! Here we go again...priming!

The timing of this thread couldn't be more appropiate for me. I have been using SW 988 spraycans exclusively, where everything inside the tail was primed. I forget how many cans I used for the tail, but just bought 10 cans to do the wings.

I have just finished drilling/clecoing the wing skeleton together, and just about to disassemble and deburr (...and prime??) all the ribs. I recently sold a 1960 Cessna 172 that I have owned for about 8 years. This aircraft spent the majority of her life in N. Texas/ Oklahoma/ Kansas/ Colorado. You get the picture... The inside of her unprimed, purely alcad wings and fuse were virtually spotless, and continually amazed the local mechanics at inspection time( I'm in Virginia now ). ...Not bad for a 46 yr. old girl! And that is without the Corrosion X treatment. I'm not so sure about the local airplanes of similar vintage though here in the mid-atlantic region, because I just don't know!

My neighbor up the street in Gaithersburg, MD seems pretty confident in the Alcad process. I am sure he isn't reading this as he is probably busy pounding rivets!...As I should be!!

So okay... I have seen with my own eyes what a 46 yr. old unprimed, metal Cessna looks like inside. Somebody convince me one way or another about priming.. and where. This could save an awful lot of work!

Opinions?

Jeff
(Also under the DC ADIZ)
 
Pointless Prattle & Priming.

jdmunzell said:
So okay... I have seen with my own eyes what a 46 yr. old unprimed, metal Cessna looks like inside. Somebody convince me one way or another about priming.. and where. This could save an awful lot of work!
Opinions? Jeff
Jeff,

I get your drift. My unprimed 1966 Cessna which I have owned for 18 years continues to hold up remarkably well, albeit the majority of its life hangared under a midwestern roof. Still, based upon my up close and personal first hand experiences with the extreme corrosion control methods demanded on the (military aircraft) production factory floor, when I built the 6A, I made the decision to epoxy prime EVERYTHING, including the bottom of all the platenuts. In the interests of cost, weight, and lung preservation, I am approaching the RV-8 project a bit differently. As an example, I have decided that generally speaking, rather than 100% prime an interior skin surface, this time primer is only applied to mating surfaces of parts that come into direct contact with one another. It can't hurt and unless I miss my guess, priming may tend to enhance future resale value, especially if the potential buyer lives near or around coastal areas. Bottom line...there simply is no right or wrong answer and a lot of wind is needlessly blown to convince people of the righteousness of one method over another. Everybody draws a line in the sand in a different place.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 112 hours
 
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rattle can

Cool. A fresh primer debate :). I vote rattle can at this point. I've exercised the full spectrum of priming methods and I haven't even finished one airplane yet!
I did the empennage and wings with the full acid etch, alodine, and epoxy prime. On the majority of the fuselage, I just scuffed really good and epoxy primed. Now, in fuselage completion and moving into finishing kit, I am convinced that basic rattle can is the way to go.
 
Minimum tempature

For the people that are using rattle cans, what minimum temperature have you applied these successfully? The NAPA 7220 says room temerature (70 degrees) for best results. No mention of a minimum tempature.

I would prefer to paint outside, but 70 degree days are aways off yet.

Thanks.
 
I used Vari Prime on my empannage and the little bit of wing work on my QB. I just switched to U-POL Acid 8 from the auto paint store and find it seems to bond better than the Vari Prime. Boy-o-boy, do I like the rattle can especially for small items! I can shake the can for 2 minutes, prime and I'm done, with no clean up.

Pennsylvania is cold now so my winter technique for small parts is to take the warm part and warm primer outside to the porch, spay, wait 1 minute and then take the item back to the warm garage to dry. I don't seem to get any vapors in my house or garage this way and the temperature seems OK. I'm getting great adhesion.

It looks like I'll be using 4 to 6 cans on my QB fuselage.

Jekyll
 
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Thanks!

Jekyll,
I've also got some of the ACID-8 that I've used on other things. I was planning on trying that on a test piece. Thanks for the feedback on this product and the temperature issue.
 
flymustangs said:
Jekyll,
Thanks for the feedback on this product and the temperature issue.

The saying goes that "necessity is the mother of invention" but my experience tells me that motherhood, relative to invention, is really a triumvirate. Necessity, combined with laziness and spend thrift are the mothers of invention!

Jekyll
 
I have used the MarHyde rattle cans exclusively on my SB 7. I used about a six-pack on the emp/wings and I think a second six-pack will be enough to finish the rest. I've primed all the non-Alclad parts, the cockpit interior skins plus the tailcone area. Although I try to spray when it's warm, sometimes I've had no choice but to do it when it's cold. It doesn't seem to hurt it; just takes longer to dry.

... Bill
 
coming to a theater near you... Primer Wars!

We're most of the way through the empennage now and I've been using the NAPA 7222 which is their self etching Zinc-Chromate. It's kind of light brown in color with a hint of green. I've experimented with different methods of application, and it seems that scuffing the surface with a scotchbrite (maroon colored ones) and then cleaning with isopropyl alcohol or thinner promotes good adhesion. It also needs longer to dry than regular gray auto primer. It doesn't really matter what temp I spray at, but it does like curing in a warm room. I've been spraying outside under cover using my home made PVC rack to hold parts, and it's working great. However the paint likes to see about 80 degrees for about 24-48 hours to cure well.

It's pretty sturdy stuff once it's fully cured. I've used about 4 cans so far, and I've got the left elevator left to do. Won't take much for that. I'm figuring about 5 cans for the empennage. It's $7.99 a can unless you can get them to give you a discount for bulk or being a mechanic.
 
that's weird. i've been using 7220 since the beginning as well, and mine is very grey in color, and dries in about 10 minutes. i used 7 cans on the emp, and i'm 2 can's in to the wings. i buy it in bulk from NAPA for $26/box of six. i don't think it's a zinc chromate...self etching, yes. i do use the exact same method of cleaning and application, and it works great!
 
i buy mine for $26/box of six. $4.34/can, that's with tax. i do have to order it from my local NAPA store since they don't stock it. it's always here the next day though.
 
cjensen said:
i buy mine for $26/box of six. $4.34/can, that's with tax. i do have to order it from my local NAPA store since they don't stock it. it's always here the next day though.

Chad--is this the regular large quantity price or a sale price? I got one can for about that price last October when NAPA had it all on sale, but I asked about quantity a week ago and they only said that in a case, the per can price would be $1 less ($6.99 vs. $7.99). Give me something I can take to my dealer to make him give me that price too! :D
 
steve, i'll check to see if i still have a receipt from my last purchase. if i don't have it, i will probably buy another case next week. i usually keep all my receipts for the RV, so it should be in my file. let ya know tonight...
 
sorry steve, i forgot about this until i went to pick up another case of six cans today. my last purchase of six was $25.72...boy was i in for a suprise today!!! $49.56!!! i don't know what happened between november and today, but it's up to $7.60/can before tax. :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Sw 988

yeah,... I think I just paid $8.50 a can( Sherwin Williams 988 self etch primer) for 12 of them, and some jet sealer for roughly the same per can. When I called to price it out( it's a long drive to get to the store), they quoted me $4.50/can. When I arrived some 40 miles later, the salesgirl said she had made a mistake, and the manager absolutely would NOT sell the cans for that low a price. Doubt I'll be driving all the way there anymore anyway for some $8.50/can stuff!

Jeff
-8 wings
 
Thanks Chad. I think you and I last bought it during a sale that was running in the fall. Unfortunately I haven't seen that sale running again and the guy at the store said he's never been able to predict when stuff will be on sale. If anyone hears that Napa has a sale going, by all means post the news--it's definitely worth buying then!
 
osxuser said:
Aircraft spruce carries Zinc Chromate for a touch over $6 a can, I think thats what I'll use. It's very recognizable for most A&P's and it's easy to use and dries almost instantly in a warm climate. I plan on priming only non-alclad parts and perhaps the seams, we'll see.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/zinc.php


When I decided on my rattle can primer I tested several different types. If I recall correclty, the stuff from ACS was not self etching, and I could scratch it off with a fingernail. I hope I am remembering this incorrectly, but you might want to test before you buy a case! ;)

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
When I decided on my rattle can primer I tested several different types. If I recall correclty, the stuff from ACS was not self etching, and I could scratch it off with a fingernail. I hope I am remembering this incorrectly, but you might want to test before you buy a case! ;)

Paul

I believe you're correct, Paul. I got my chromate from Redden Marine Supply. It's still Tempo, just the self-etching variety. Nice stuff, designed for below waterline use.

Problem is that you CAN scratch it off with a fingernail, even the self etching stuff, until it's dried for about a week. Bummer....that's why I don't use it anymore. I let a test piece sit around for about a week, and the stuff is tough as nails when it's fully hardened but who the heck wants to wait a week to rivet?
 
Buy a LOT of 988

I've been using Sherwin Williams 988 on my mating surfaces. Only for small areas (ribs, spars, etc.) do I prime the whole thing. Mine is a QB, so there's a lot of it that I'm not priming at all, because it's already put together.

My advice is to buy a LOT of rattle cans. I've used about 16 so far, and I've done:

Empennage
Seats
Rudder
Ailerons & Flaps (I'm painting the rear spar, aileron gap seal, flap brace, etc. where water might pool)
Pushrods, inside and out

The cans don't go very far, at least not if you do two coats.
 
Ok, I'll bite.

The future N941WR was primed, after alumini prepping and alodining, with SEM Self Etching Primer.

The stuff seems to work well, but then again, my -9 is still in my hermetically sealed basement. ;)

It was recommended to me by another RV builder/flier and he is still happy with the results.

One thing I really like about using the spray cans is that clean up is VERY easy. Just put the can back on the shelf.
 
I just started using the SEM rattle cans as well. I like it. However, I don't acid etch and alodine any more. A couple of years ago at Sun n Fun, Tom Greene told me that was redundant. I just clean the surface, scuff with a Scotchbrite pad, clean it again, clean it again, and then hit it with the SEM. It dries very quickly and seems very durable. And, as said before, clean up is a breeze! Comes in a variety of colors ,too. :)

Does anyone know how to safely discard spent alodine??
 
Dupont in a rattle can

Relative new comer and aimed to catch the market is the offering from Dupont. I get this from auto refinishing store.
The primer is A 4115-S, comes in green and grey. I like it better than the Sherwin williams product ( which is smme as the NAPA) and the SEM.
I have tried to attach a pic.
 
cjensen said:
sorry steve, i forgot about this until i went to pick up another case of six cans today. my last purchase of six was $25.72...boy was i in for a suprise today!!! $49.56!!! i don't know what happened between november and today, but it's up to $7.60/can before tax. :eek: :rolleyes:


Just picked up 2 boxes of NAPA 7220 self etching primer. Each box was approx $26. Got 2 because I saw the post above and figure maybe they gave me and wrong price. :confused:
 
apatti said:
I just started using the SEM rattle cans as well. I like it. However, I don't acid etch and alodine any more. A couple of years ago at Sun n Fun, Tom Greene told me that was redundant. I just clean the surface, scuff with a Scotchbrite pad, clean it again, clean it again, and then hit it with the SEM. It dries very quickly and seems very durable. And, as said before, clean up is a breeze! Comes in a variety of colors ,too. :)

Does anyone know how to safely discard spent alodine??
True, acid etching and alodine are redundant but I had initially thought I might but the -9 on floats some day. I have since changed my mind but continued with the process.

As for discarding spent alodine, our county has a hazmat drop off service. They take old paint, MEK, alodine, etc.
 
NAPA 7220 is on sale now!

As AX-O mentioned above, NAPA 7220 is on sale now. I called my local store and they said it was $3.76 per can. This is almost half-price. Time to stock up!
 
New (but lazy) builder ? - Napa rattle can primer prep

I'm getting close to where I have to decide on what / if / how to prime. After a careful forum review, I've decided I fall into the "lazy builder" camp as described in the thread of that name. I'm going to use a very light coat of rattle can primer only for where parts touch and for all non-alclad parts. It looks like Doug and others are taking this approach.

I went to Napa this AM, they are having a sale on both 7220 (self-etching) and 7222 (zinc-chrome) primers for $3.65 a can. Not knowing which to chose, I went with the 7220 since more people are using it and the name is less scary!

My question is - I see that lots of people are using scochbrite pads, then MEK or acetone, then primer. Is the scotchbrite necessary? It seems like it might remove the few mils of cladding that I'm relying on for the primary corrosion protection. Can I just clean and spray?

Thanks for any help,
 
I just use a light scuff with the scotchbrite, the clean. Technically, the self-etching primer does not need scuffing, but I think it sticks a little better. I've noticed on my training kit piece that has been sitting outside for a corrosion test (it will stay out there until I'm done with the airplane), that the 7220 is sticking very well without the roughing of the maroon pad, but if you use something to scratch or pick at it, it will scratch off fairly easily. The parts that were roughed up take some work to scratch off...if it comes off.
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
My question is - I see that lots of people are using scochbrite pads, then MEK or acetone, then primer. Is the scotchbrite necessary? It seems like it might remove the few mils of cladding that I'm relying on for the primary corrosion protection. Can I just clean and spray?
I would second Chad's comments and add that lacquer thinner is more than adequate for cleaning, especially if you've already used soap and water. MEK or acetone are more expensive, and probably less healthy, and not really necessary. Good luck.
 
Rattle cans

Thanks for post. Just ordered two cases from my local NAPA store for $22.75 a case (#7220). Bill
 
OK, I see by now that I could spend forever reading about primers.

So, I intend to prime the skeletons but not the skins.

Since I'm confused with info-overload and passionately-conflicting opinions, I'm just gonna go to Mega Lo-Mart and buy some DupliColor self-etching primer and get on with it.

Thanks!
 
My 2 cents worth!

I am using Rattle Cans (DAP self-etching). I am going bonkers from the whole debate.

I can say this, I spent 12 years at a major airline, many years of that was heavy sheetmetal. EVERY finish combo I have seen (alodine/zinc chromate, 2 part epoxy/enamel top coat, etc) get's corroded in the right environment!

Now that I am working on my own plane, I am more concerned. (No one paying me union wages to remove the corrosion.

My plan is to continue with what I have done on the empanage of my RV 9.
Alodine and rattle can the ribs, leave the skins Alclad. The question now is to I want to top coat (wing parts) some of the mating surfaces to prevent fretting?
 
Is it the location where I live or is the price for NAPA 7220 out of control? I went in 2 days ago to purchase a case and I was quoted over $9 per can:eek::eek: I told the guy that I purchased a can for less than $4 before from them before. He told me no way. The best I got was $44 out of the door for 6 cans.
 
Is it the location where I live or is the price for NAPA 7220 out of control? I went in 2 days ago to purchase a case and I was quoted over $9 per can
I was quoted $10+ for individual cans of 7220 and 7222. The guy said that NAPA will have regional sales, so there isn't a single national price.
 
Anyone have an opinion on duplicolor self etching primer? Saw it at Walmart for $4 something a can. Almost looks to be same color as Zinc chromate primer too!
 
Napa 7220 Self etching

I've used around 5 cans of 7220 so far on my finished tail kit and partially completed wings on my RV-8. Approx. $5 per can here in W. Texas. Great stuff too. No muss, no fuss. Just scotchbrite the surface and spray. Repeat. Replace cap when done.
 
Ditto on the 7220 - though I paid a bit more for my last couple of cans here in Midland, a couple hours from San Angelo. $9/can if memory serves. I use AKZO on larger assemblies and 7220 for small touch up.

Kristofer - where did you get yours in SJT, and how long ago?
 
Hey Greg,
Ref. the price on Napa 7220, I DID buy the stuff in Midland, but back in Jan. Incredible how much it has gone up in that period of time:eek: Guess I should look into the bulk purchase maybe. I am gonna need approx 10 more cans to complete the project.
Say hello to everyone at EAA chp 123 there in Midland for me. I was a member of that chapter before moving to San Angelo.

Kris
 
Anyone have an opinion on duplicolor self etching primer?
I used it on the control stick-to-bellcrank pushrods (tho I wouldn't use a rattle can again on tubing because of the wasted spray). Worked well when I followed the instructions about multiple, rapid, light coats. It had little abrasion resistance in the first few days, it's now been a few weeks and I'll try to remember to test it again.
 
group buy?

Since there is such a price difference for the rattle can primer that many of us like to use, maybe a group buy is in order (by the case). Anyone interested in putting this together? If we were to buy a whole skid direct from the manufacturer the price should be VERY attractive and help to ofset the shipping costs. Oh by the way, I've primed quite a bit and probably used more than 20 cans myself. Very convenient to use.

Bevan
 
Anyone have an opinion on duplicolor self etching primer? Saw it at Walmart for $4 something a can. Almost looks to be same color as Zinc chromate primer too!


I've been using Duplicolor and am very satisfied. Used on empennage and most of wing so far.:)
 
Anyone have an opinion on duplicolor self etching primer? Saw it at Walmart for $4 something a can. Almost looks to be same color as Zinc chromate primer too!

I started with the TEMPO self etch and switched to the WalMart supplied Duplicolor @ $4.46 per can. I am satisfied with the results. I am pretty much just spraying the mating surfaces.
 
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