What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Transfer of control in tandem airplane?

Jeff A

Well Known Member
As I am nearing the end of Phase 1, and trying to complete a comprehensive POH, I have a question for all of you military pilot types out there....What is the PROPER way to transfer control of a tandem airplane from one seat to another? What is the proper phraseology/terminology to ensure both pilots don't sit there with their arms folded thinking the other person is flying the airplane? Although the scenerio is slim, I've read more than one accident report that has dealt with this subject, and want to know what the best course of action is. Thanks in advance....
 
The way I have always been taught (non Military) is a three part process to ensure both are unstood. It begins with the Non pilot saying " I have flight controls" as he/she grabs the stick, then the Pilot says, "You have Flight Controls" and the Non pilot/now pilot will finish with "I have Flight Controls" Until all three of these are heard or said the one who began with the controls will not stop flying.

Not exactly what you asked for but this has worked and is pretty fail safe.

-david
 
one way to trasnfer control and it works comm out

Shake to take, pump to pass.

first, with intercom capability, clear statements

"You have the aircraft"

"I have the aircraft"

comm out, person flying lightly presses rudder pedals such as left, right left (pump) to gently wag the airplane

nonflying person then lightly 'shakes' the stick to take control, enough that the airplane moves in roll, that way the flying pilot knows the nonflying now has the control.

comm in, i also shake the stick lightly even when verbalizing "I have the aircraft"

if ever in doubt, continue to fly the plane...
 
Interesting. When I learned to fly, we only did it as a two-way transfer.

If the person flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "You have control." The person taking control would say "I have control."

If the person not flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "I have control." The person giving control would say "You have control."

I can't think of a situation where we needed more confirmation than that, but that's probably because I just didn't run into one...
 
as an additional confirmation...

with students where the instructor sits in the back seat the 'shake to take, pump to pass' for comm out an additional technique is for the front seater (student) to raise their hands to the canopy so the back seater can see the student is no longer trying to fly. Unless you have formation mirrors, its difficult to get this to work the opposite way. Technique only...
 
My wife and me...

.... and (all the other ones I fly with too ofcourse), use in our -7 too.
Works as well in a side-by-side as in a tandem.

The no-com transfer (shake-to-take / pump-to-pass) was a great way of transfering, and I think that can be useful when the VHF is busy with lots of talk. Thanks! :)
 
Last edited:
I fly a side by side but our technique is pretty standard into the tandem apache community. 3 parts....verbal (positive three way) visual (showing hands off the stick if relinquishing) and tactile (shake her to take her, especially under NVGs). Positive meaning you never use negatives, ie "I don't have the flight controls", because if the radio cuts out on the don't, no one is flying the plane. 3 way meaning "i have the flight controls, you have the flight controls, I have the flight controls". Too redundant? Maybe, but I've heard of several instances where no one was flying the airplane. Additionally, the army is pretty big on saying "flight controls" because if you say "you have the airplane", but copilot thinks pilot is referring to traffic and says "I have the airplane" and the pilot relinquishes control unbeknownst to the copilot...no one is flying.
 
Thanks everybody. All great repsonses. That's exactly what I was looking for. I know that most people (non-military) have been taught a certain way or have a way they like to transfer the controls. I only specified the military pilots because having worked on the Apache way back, I know they have a black-and-white SOP for transfer of control, and was curious as to what it says.
 
Interesting. When I learned to fly, we only did it as a two-way transfer.

If the person flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "You have control." The person taking control would say "I have control."

If the person not flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "I have control." The person giving control would say "You have control."

I can't think of a situation where we needed more confirmation than that, but that's probably because I just didn't run into one...

That's how they used to do it in the UK too. At least when I was training.
 
Most Important thing

From a crew resource standpoint, the most important thing is to brief your chosen method prior to walking to the aircraft. Realistically doesn't matter what you call it. If you brief it as a positive 3 way change of controls using the phrase "You eat the cornflakes", "Roger, I eat the cornflakes"... that should work just fine. We always use the previous mentioned 3 way change of controls, but I would argue that the only times I have seen an improper change or release of controls is with a poor brief or not using the agreed upon terminology.
 
Control Transfer

These are very interesting with the tactile confirmation....perfect for mid-flight maneuvering. I don't remember having done this while doing tailwheel checkouts from the back seat of a Citabria.

Are we talking about a check out, or some type of student/instructor type relationship here? If yes, then simply a loud and clear verbal method may be appropriate. During a badly bounced landing is not the time for control inputs that could aggravate the situation and cause a stall/spin.

My students were briefed that if I said that "I have control", it was imediate and they could be sure that I did have it. Some would even put their hands in the air so they could be seen from the back seat. Usually it was verified by a big change such as the throttle opening up for a go-around, a big side-slip, stick movement or what have you.

At my present airline control is transfered everytime the first officer lands. The captain is the only one with a tiller which is needed to make sharp turns off the runway. This exchange is ONLY Initiated by the pilot taking control. It goes like this: "My control" ..."Your control". Of course this is much easier in a side by side situation where you see the other pilot take the throttles.

Kudos for thinking about this...its a very important issue.

:) Steve W.
 
...trying to complete a comprehensive POH...
Why would this be in the POH?

While great information, it really has nothing to do with how the aircraft flies or performs.

The POH can become so complex that it becomes nearly useless.
 
with students where the instructor sits in the back seat the 'shake to take, pump to pass' for comm out an additional technique is for the front seater (student) to raise their hands to the canopy so the back seater can see the student is no longer trying to fly. Unless you have formation mirrors, its difficult to get this to work the opposite way. Technique only...


^^^This^^^ in a comm out situation. Pump to pass, shake to take.

Otherwise it's three way positive transfer.

Oh, and three hard bangs on the canopy means "eject."

Interesting. When I learned to fly, we only did it as a two-way transfer.

If the person flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "You have control." The person taking control would say "I have control."

If the person not flying was initiating the transfer, he would say "I have control." The person giving control would say "You have control."

I can't think of a situation where we needed more confirmation than that, but that's probably because I just didn't run into one...


This used to be the standard, there have been incidents however when the pilot flying doesn't hear the response of "I have control" thus he doesn't release the controls, and you have two people fighting over it. Same thing the other way, he says "You have control" and doesn't get a "I have control" but gets side tracked or thinks he heard the response, pilot he's passing too doesn't take it, now no one is flying. Three way positive exchange is the new standard.

The ever evolving human factors.
 
Last edited:
If you listen to the Miracle on the Hudson ditching voice recorder tape - it's very short and sweet:

Capt. Sully: "My airplane"

Co-pilot Jeff Skyles: "Your airplane!"

Bob Bogash
N737G
RV-12
 
A little disconcerting

One thing that has always bugged me is when students are taught to IMMEDIATELY release the controls. I used to get some who would hear "I have the controls" and it was like when the road runner would shoot away and all you saw was a poof. Their hands are then off the controls and they are so scared that they end up yelling the response. In my case these students were Navy/Coast Guard but exclusively Air Force trained in the T-6 for primary. Not knocking the Air Force, but I totally disagree with this, if you let them get into such extremis that they need to "eject" their hands and feet from the controls, you probably let it go too far as an instructor.

My brief explains that the 1st "I/you have controls" is to inform the non flying pilot to come into the controls, and ride along"
2nd "you/I have controls" is to confirm that the non flying pilot is now ready for the execution order, which is the 3rd reply, confirming the actual change of control responsibility. We use the same type of interaction for formation lead changes.
 
Use different words

Not a bad idea to use completely different words in each nominated phrase to ensure no partial phrases are heard which may lead to any misunderstanding.
My airline uses these two initially:

"Handing over"
"I have control"

"I have control"
"Handing over."

Then go and spoil it with:

"In abnormal or emergency situations in particular, the positive takeover of control must be clearly established and the call ?taking over? used to indicate the formal change over in responsibility and control."

taking over could be heard as "(something) Handing??? over" woops!

During training I once thoughtlessly said "Now let go with your right hand and put it on the trim wheel" only to find the aircraft bunting over abruptly.
Now I would say "Hold on to the stick with your left hand and with put your right hand on the trim"
 
I would think that a sharp increase in air noise above one's head would be sufficient? ;)

The seats are usually sequential depending on the mode selected, so if one person pulls the handle they both go. The three bangs on the canopy is the warning is more so that both can get into proper body position before the 5500 lb rocket under your butt lights off. Nasty surprise if you don't know its coming!
 
...can't trust your eyes.....

........Of course this is much easier in a side by side situation where you see the other pilot take the throttles.
:) Steve W.

Steve, just makes me think of a recent airliner crash where the F.O. I believe held full-back (up) on his side stick throughout the whole incident, and no-one noticed, or acted. Obviously someone pulling the throttles to idle, or holding the yoke or stick against the dash is harder to miss...but throw in an auto-pilot etc. and you're adding more opportunities.
I like the 'bang on the canopy' ( just not MY canopy!!!) or hands above the head, but you have to count on the other guy looking at you, or identifying the sound at that instant.
 
Transfer of Control

Steve, just makes me think of a recent airliner crash where the F.O. I believe held full-back (up) on his side stick throughout the whole incident, and no-one noticed, or acted. Obviously someone pulling the throttles to idle, or holding the yoke or stick against the dash is harder to miss...but throw in an auto-pilot etc. and you're adding more opportunities.
I like the 'bang on the canopy' ( just not MY canopy!!!) or hands above the head, but you have to count on the other guy looking at you, or identifying the sound at that instant.

If you are talking about the airbus over the Atlantic ocean incident. I'm not an airbus guy, but I believe that it's possible for one pilot to pull full back on the airbus's stick while the other stick remains neutral. That is one of many factors in this accident I'm sure. There is no tactile feed back to the other stick as there would be in our simple RV's (and most planes in the world for that matter).

In my earlier post, I'm not talking about two experienced pilots flying together. I'm talking about myself in the back seat of a citabria with the bouncy oleo gear that tends to occillate like a bucking bronco that will only get worse with every bounce. In the front seat is someone who may or may not even gone solo yet or may be a very low time student. Therefore a little context is required.

My example assumes that the student just bounced the airplane badly and isn't reacting appropriately. A loud and clear "I have control" would be answered by a "you have control"... it's really that simple. The transfer of control has to be immediate and positive in this case. Fighting over the controls a few feet off the ground in a low energy state would not brighten your day much. If you are way up high, then I guess there would lots of time to talk about it.

So in that particular circumstance if the student doesn't allow the instructor to take over, then there could be serious consequences. I have heard that there have been cases of students freezing up and locking-up the controls and throttle, but fortunately it's never happened to me.

It requires a good preflight briefing of what is going to happen, and what to expect if things don't go as planned. And yes of course what the signals for transferring control will be; so that it is positive and smooth.... and more importantly safe with no confusion of who is, or is not flying the plane. Lets be safe out there.:D
 
How we currently teach it in USAF Pilot Training

One thing that has always bugged me is when students are taught to IMMEDIATELY release the controls. I used to get some who would hear "I have the controls" and it was like when the road runner would shoot away and all you saw was a poof. Their hands are then off the controls and they are so scared that they end up yelling the response. In my case these students were Navy/Coast Guard but exclusively Air Force trained in the T-6 for primary. Not knocking the Air Force, but I totally disagree with this, if you let them get into such extremis that they need to "eject" their hands and feet from the controls, you probably let it go too far as an instructor.

My brief explains that the 1st "I/you have controls" is to inform the non flying pilot to come into the controls, and ride along"
2nd "you/I have controls" is to confirm that the non flying pilot is now ready for the execution order, which is the 3rd reply, confirming the actual change of control responsibility. We use the same type of interaction for formation lead changes.

I may be qualified to comment on this... The following is direct from AFMAN11-248 19 JANUARY 2011, T-6 PRIMARY FLYING





1.15. Transfer of Aircraft and Systems Control. Only one pilot at a time can fly the aircraft. It is vital for flight safety to clearly establish who is the PF and who is the PNF as fatal accidents have occurred when two pilots attempted to fly the aircraft simultaneously. The PF is responsible for checklist completion and systems operation; however, the PF may task the PNF to operate systems. Because of the importance of proper transfer of aircraft control, the following rules apply:
1.15.1. Transfer of aircraft control:​
1.15.1.1. The PF relinquishing control says, ?You have the aircraft.?

1.15.1.2. The PNF assumes control and says, ?I have the aircraft,? and noticeably shakes the control stick.​
1.15.1.3. The order may be reversed as the AC always retains the authority to take aircraft control when required. The order of transfer is less important than each crewmember executing his or her role according to the procedures listed.​
1.15.1.4. If the AC, as the PNF, says "I have the aircraft" and noticeably shakes the control stick, the PF must immediately relinquish control of the aircraft, and say, "You have the aircraft." This is an example of how the order is reversed, but the roles continue to be executed.​
1.15.1.5. Using the exact words is critical to establish proper habit patterns that enhance swift, unambiguous transfer of aircraft control. Do not use other words such as "it" or "jet" in lieu of the term "aircraft" as they can be misunderstood, misheard, and create confusion.​
1.15.2. In the event of intercom failure, the PF signals the desire to relinquish aircraft control by smoothly pushing the rudder pedals in a back-and-forth motion, and the PNF assumes control by vigorously shaking the control stick . The pilot relinquishing control raises both hands in the air for the other pilot to see either directly from the RCP or using mirrors from the FCP.​

1.15.3. Never relinquish control of the aircraft until the other pilot has positively assumed control of the aircraft (shaken the control stick).​
1.15.4. Do not hesitate to relinquish control when directed by the AC.​
1.15.5. Immediately query the other crewmember in case of confusion.​
1.15.6. The tandem seating setup of T-6 systems can be confusing if not managed properly. It is crucial to coordinate systems use to avoid inadvertent inputs. Systems that require crew coordination include canopy, radio management unit (RMU), global positioning system (GPS), and electronic flight instrument system (EFIS) configuration. The PF controls all of the systems of the aircraft unless a transfer of that system has been clearly communicated between the crewmembers. The PNF should also communicate when transferring control of the system back to the PF.​
 
Thanks Jeremy. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Not sure how big your training squadrons are there in Columbus, but say "Hi" to Keith Carson for me if you see him around.
 
Back
Top