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RV8-83772, N1986

Roarks

Active Member
RV8 N1986 Mesa, Arizona

Howdy!

Well today is the start. After dithering on a decision, having the plans preview book for 6 years I called today and ordered the tail feathers.

It's been a long time coming. I had just finished my Aerospace engineering degree, I finally got my private, then got distracted with helicopters for a while. Thought I would consider an RV... Took the eaa sheetmetal class... It was good but I thought there should be more so I got my A&P certificate. Now I teach sheetmetal at the part 147 mechanic school!

Should be an interesting ride. Which I could fast forward to see the end of this thread!
 
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Finally. Not sure why I had such issue trying to upload pics.
This was a week ago.

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Got everything inventoried that night.

Apparently I started another primer war over on the VAF Facebook. Didn't know that was a thing.

I work in aerospace and have never been able to just put a part on an aircraft. It has to have some sort of protection on it.
I'm currently working on aircraft for my day job that have been sitting for 30 years in the arizona desert and it's awful. The system we use at work is like a 4 or 6 step process and was not something I was willing to do.

After researching I just ordered a batch of etch and prime from Stewart Systems. Sounds amazing... waterbased... roughly non toxic. I'll give it a try and go from there.
 
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There is something really cool about receiving boxes proudly stating "High Dollar Value Aircraft Parts - Handle with Care" in them!.

Good luck, have fun, and enjoy every second of building
 
Sounded like they wanted it primer'ed
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Tonights work:
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Rear spar asm.

Maybe this weekend...
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Got my care package from Stewart Systems in the mail today. Never used a paint gun so I might leave that to the weekend.
 
Well... this could be a little clearer.

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So per the instructions it says to lay out a line of rivets...
Apparently the image for this is part of a SB 14-01-31?

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See how this ends up.
 
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Made my first mistake. HS Fwd spar. Match drilled through the HS-810-1 and got that on the other side :(

Emailed tech... not sure what I did wrong.

EDIT: Put them on opposite. New part ordered.
 
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Don't let it bother you. I had to order replacement parts right off the bat too. Next time you screw something up, just have Vans throw in an extra trim tab skin too. You'll probably need it. I went through 3 of them I think
 
My plans showed the doublers very similar but have call outs indicating that the edges where they are connected are the bottoms and the outside edges are the tops which helps you get them oriented on the spar correctly. Looking again, your call outs basically say the same thing but not so clear as day. Just make a note for the future that when you have parts mirror image parts, they aren't always identical. Sometimes there is a left and a right version.
 
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Yep I screwed up this area a couple of times on my -7A. No joke about that extra trim tab skin Mark mentioned, I know few that have made it through it in one shot.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the trim tab skin... I will be extra diligent.

Good news... getting parts from Vans only takes 2 days! So I was back up and running today.

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Hopefully this may help someone... don't do what I did!

so moving on!--------------------------------------------------------

Okay edge prep... Wow I knew it was going to be annoying but I had no idea. I have a scotchbrite wheel on my bench grinder but I don't trust myself. I tried with my scrap part and ZIINGGG I managed to hit the face and not the edge not once but TWICE trying to clean it up.

So I tried this...

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Ordered the paper from amazon. 100 sheets of 400 grit for like $20 dollars... so far I love it.

Also I happened to discover that my Avery rivet gage happens to be perfect for tracing out a R.25...

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Went to go shape it using abrasives but when the part got hot enough the sharpie mark disappeared... I said NOPE. I don't want to effect the heat treat on that part. So I stopped.

Now I'm waiting for my new bandsaw stand to show up. I already have a Milwaukee portaband so I got a stand that converts that into an upright bandsaw with a table. Hopefully that works out.
 
Those sand paper discs you have will be your ticket to success. Someone nudged me tribal knowledge to get foam sanding blocks. The soft sand block gently and nicely allows the sanding surface to fold around and edge, not too much, not too little....insert the word "finesse" here.
Extra tip....look at part's and skin's edges for excessive burr; often I GENTLY run a edge debut tool (V-style) along the edge once or twice, then apply the sanding block.
Try this, and I think you will be happy, get a small hand towel, fold it perhaps once...your sticky backed sanding discs will stick to that nicely....essentially imitating a foam style sanding block.
Short answer...thin part's edges...use sanding. The wheels, die grinder or bench grinder...both will cause you headache. Those two tools are for thick parts, holes, or small w many flange type parts.
 
Cleco caps.

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So... I ran out of my clecos that have caps... borrowed a friends. To my shock I couldn't believe how easily some of them scratched the skin!

Intolerable to me.

I just got a new pile of clecos and went to go buy more caps... yeah ATS stopped stocking them and yardstore wanted $.30 each!?

I found this guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aft8JSct35A

The mcmaster.com part number is 9753K16 which he didn't mention. $~4 for a pack of 100. Just gotta poke the hole.
 
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So... I ran out of my clecos that have caps... borrowed a friends. To my shock I couldn't believe how easily some of them scratched the skin!

Intolerable to me.

I just got a new pile of clecos and went to go buy more caps... yeah ATS stopped stocking them and yardstore wanted $.30 each!?

I found this guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aft8JSct35A

The mcmaster.com part number is 9753K16 which he didn't mention. $~4 for a pack of 100. Just gotta poke the hole.

Cheap. Easier than mine too.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ychmFWN2kPJIxPX-KVrm91abzI42PWP-
 
Flood of orders

:eek:
..:
The mcmaster.com part number is 9753K16 which he didn't mention. $~4 for a pack of 100...

And today someone at McMaster-Carr is wondering why there is a sudden flood of 825 orders for that part number. :eek:

But we know why. :)
 
So I just outfitted 125 1/8 clecos... That was tedious. Luckly my 9 month old sat in my lap and would hold anything I handed her. So we were swapping out cleco pliers and the awl.
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I'm not a fan of how the guy in the video did it.
The wood block with the hole in it helped... but I put the cap "up" and eyeballed center. Worked better for me.

I still have 275 3/32 clecos on backorder with brown tool. So I ordered a leather hole punch. One of those rotary things with multiple sizes. I'm going to try that instead of just poking a hole... there is a drip nib on the end of these I would like to remove.
 
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Well... Finally got the bandsaw table set up and cut the spar reinforcements.

I wouldn't recommend anyone do this outright.

I justified it because I already had a Milwaukee portaband... probably one of the most bada** consumer grade tools out there. Swag offroad makes these tables for them (and other brands) and I gotta say... VERY nice. Probably much higher quality than any stand up bandsaw for less than $1000.
 
SWAG bandsaw table

I love my SWAG bandsaw table! I bought a cheap $99 harbor freight version of the portable bandsaw just to have the same setup, and I love it! (Just very loud) I also have a cheap Craigslist $90 standalone bandsaw for most aluminum cuts. (Very quiet) I think it?s plastic frame Delta model, and although it?s band speed is too fast for cutting steel, with a fine tooth blade, it cuts aluminum easily! I reserve the SWAG setup for heavier steel cutting in the shop.
 
HS-702 with the HS-00003 minimum edge distance.

So I wasn't sure if this is the minimum edge distance that everyone was talking about... sure enough it is. Thanks Vans for the clarification.


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"The two holes directly above and below the notch are known to have short edge distance and accepted by the engineers, not a problem."

And if you look real close... you will see why I just spent $20 getting another HS-702. :eek:

I think what is going to take the most time is screwing up on a Saturday night, waiting to hear back from tech support on Monday, and ordering parts that take another 3 days.
 
Good to see you approaching your build in the right way - Being cautious and talking to Van's when unsure.

It's a difficult intro to an RV build - working on the first real structural part, where one hole drilled through 3 or 4 layers can ruin your day. I have a few (4!) spare HS-702's, not to mention a box full of front spar reinforcements.. :)

Something I found interesting - having built two complete HS's - On the non-SB HS front spar there aren't any areas where lower than normal edge distances are acceptable, yet on the SB version there are multiple areas where less than perfect edge distances are approved by Van's. Even on critical structures, less than perfect edge distances are sometimes acceptable with Van's approval, indeed sometimes unavoidable. But always check with Van's!

Good luck with the rest of the build - This front spar area is the initiation!

Hugh
 
Relief notch

The old plans had those relief notch pilot holes further toward the vertex. Wonder why Vans moved them?
Easier to file away material than replace it.
 
Did you enlarge the wrong hole? Why aren?t both the big holes for the relief notch not tangent to your vertical line there? Bottom one looks ok but the top on has me puzzled
 
Did you enlarge the wrong hole? Why aren’t both the big holes for the relief notch not tangent to your vertical line there? Bottom one looks ok but the top on has me puzzled


Sure did. New one showing up today. :D
 
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So... I have been seized up past week doing day job work... but also having what one of my engineering buddies affectionately calls a "helmet fire" when it comes to dimples.

The large plate on the right is representative of every dimple I have ever made... just kinda looks not great. can kind of see up under the rivet head a bit too.

I Just watched cleavelands video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo9QCMaNSoA

So basically I'm weak and need to put a handle extension on my DRDT-2.

Plate on the left... Holy shiitake mushrooms batman! I finally did it.

-Also my back rivet plate and back rivet set had disappeared... Finally found it. So... I'm clear to proceed!

EDIT: My single piston CP214 could not dimple as good as the DRDT-2 :(
 
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I was under dimpling when I started too. I didn't get the help I needed until another builder pointed out my error, but fortunately for me I hadn't started riveted more than a couple skin rivets at the time. He demonstrated that a fully dimpled hole will leave witness rings like a bullseye around the dimple which is another indicator to observe.

It should also be noted that Exp. Aero (maker of the DRDT-2) says the it is impossible to over dimple with that tool. I personally don't think its possible to over dimple with any common airplane building tool but what do I know...I'm just an amateur.
 
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So I haven't done much since Phoenix went 100°F+.

BUT! This was my RV8 mini project for this weekend. AC in the garage.
 
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So... I have been vapor locked on what to do for priming because of product selection and skills/equipment to spray.

I finally got my 60 gallon compressor set up which was a major hold up to get the CFM for my FLG-4 (FLG-671 waterborne) spray gun. The compressor was a craigslist find for $100 It needed a new check valve, a good cleaning, and a quart of oil... so not a bad gig. It plugs right into my welder extension cord from the dryer so I'm happy as a clam.

So I bought Stewart Systems EkoPrime because I liked that it's a 1 part, and waterbased. Then I saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgjXVCwV3V8&t=191s

Made me feel 110% better about the whole thing until I got to reading the comments. Apparently not the greatest for wear areas and not solvent resistant.

I'm wanting to prime everything. Inside and out like a production aircraft. Stewart systems suggested prime everything with Ekoprime, then ekopoxy the cockpit and outside after assembly. Thoughts?

The other option is I have https://www.skygeek.com/u-s-paint-10p8-11-primer-epoxy-voc-compliant.html. From doing a touchup job on a Cessna 210.
 
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Primer

There's endless opinions on primer. Here's mine, based on what you have:

1. Prime the bulkheads, stringers, ribs etc. and all the other small parts with the water based one pack primer, because it is easy to clean up and no waste in small batches.
2. Prime the insides of the skins with the 2 pack Akzo.
3. Prime the outside skins with whatever is compatible with the topcoat you decide to use.
 
So Akzonobel is the winner. Wow. I got in contact with one of their applications engineers. Amazing. Answered all my questions perfectly.

So I am going to primer all metal surfaces before assembly... just like a production aircraft. I have a friend with 2 older Cessnas that are bare 2024 that have lived in hangers in Arizona for most of their life and there is some dangerous corrosion on them we are repairing. I can't bring myself to build something that will be in that kind of trouble in 30 years... I'm in my 30's so I don't want that problem later... hopefully I make it that long.

So details:

Primer I have:
1 gallon Alumigrip 10P8-11 (green)
1 gallon EC-286 activator

2 gallons mixed= 530 ft^2
2 gallon = 7571 millimeters = cubic centimeters
so 7571 cm^3 per 530 ft^2 = 14.28 cm^3 per 1 ft^2 .

Thinner: TR-114 kinda of $$ but he said tops only use up to
10%. If the viscosty is out of range... it means don't
use it.

Aluminum Prep
I was pretty excited to find out Alodine is not required! They have
another product called Metaflex SP1050 that is environmentally
friendly, water soluble. Can be put in a spray bottle and scotchbrite to
wet scuff. I've yet to get a $ quote on it... but hopefully it will beat
alodine. The only downside is the chemconversion coating of alodine
provides some protection when scratched. SP1050 does not. I'm not
too upset about that.

Topcoat
Alumigrip 4200. He said it comes in any color you want... I'm still
learning about it, but at least I know what goes on top of the primer I
have now.

Bonus info: I asked if I prime a part... and put it on the shelf for a few
years what do I have to do to top coat it? His answer was
red scotchbrite it and clean it up and it should be fine.


SPRAY GUN
Finishline FLG4. I bought the DeKups system mainly because my
FLG4 was set up for waterborne paint... which is just the plastic cup
that doesnt play nice with solvent paint. Just an FYI it uses the #31
Dekups adaptor.

I have a RTi MR-1 regulator on the gun. I'm going to go with high flow
3/8" automotive fittings.

I'm planning on starting with a 1.3mm spray nozzle and go from
there. Suggested gun pressure is 15 psi for 10scfm supply.


Compressor

So I scored a used 60 gallon Campbellhausfeld. It's a 240v that
claims 11.9 CFM @40 psi - 9.5 CFM @90 psi. So hopefully it works.

I plan on using a nothing fancy water separator and filter at the
compressor, and run a Harbor Freight Disposable Inline Moisture Filter
at the gun.


With that said... wish me luck.
 
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