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rv-10 insurance

Skeejere

Member
thoughts on insurance premiums for RV-10? I realize this depends heavily on pilot experience, number of hours, etc. But just wondering people's thoughts/experience for this type of airplane....
 
My thought is that its !@3!%$ expensive.
500+ hours, Instrument rated. I?m paying $2700 a year for this first year. We?ll see how much it drops year 2
 
I'm in year 3 of -10 ownership, 900+ hours total time, no instrument ticket
250+ hours in the -10

Mine went up again this year, now at $3286 ($2996 last year). No changes in coverage etc.

I have no accident history, etc.
 
My thought is that its !@3!%$ expensive.
500+ hours, Instrument rated. I?m paying $2700 a year for this first year. We?ll see how much it drops year 2

I was about the same. Initially I had $200k hull, it now I just carry $175k. Year two dropped to about $1,800 and it?s remained pretty flat the last six years. Last year I saw a slight increase.
 
I'm in year 3 of -10 ownership, 900+ hours total time, no instrument ticket
250+ hours in the -10

Mine went up again this year, now at $3286 ($2996 last year). No changes in coverage etc.

I have no accident history, etc.

I didn?t think the lack of IFR had that big of an impact. I thought it was more like a 10-15% discount.

You?re almost a 180% of what I?m paying for $175k hull and you have more total hours than I have. What insurance company? That doesn?t seem to be in line with the average rates that I?m aware of at the moment.
 
I didn?t think the lack of IFR had that big of an impact. I thought it was more like a 10-15% discount.

You?re almost a 180% of what I?m paying for $175k hull and you have more total hours than I have. What insurance company? That doesn?t seem to be in line with the average rates that I?m aware of at the moment.

I'm insured for $230k, 1 million liability with 200k sublimits. The extra 100k sublimit was worth $195/year.

Old Republic via Gallagher. All the quotes they got were pretty similar...
 
My thought is that its !@3!%$ expensive.
500+ hours, Instrument rated. I’m paying $2700 a year for this first year. We’ll see how much it drops year 2

similar here. 750 hours and inst rated. First year premium with $175K hull value was 2400. I would expect this to go down in the second year. Some of this is new. My quote a year prior, before I was ready, was only 2100.

Larry
 
I'm insured for $230k, 1 million liability with 200k sublimits. The extra 100k sublimit was worth $195/year.

Old Republic via Gallagher. All the quotes they got were pretty similar...

DROP GALLAGHER!!!!

I had them with my Christen Eagle, my rates went from 2300 to 3800. Got a new quote with AirCapital and was quoted 2100. That is for high performance biplane, no IFR and ~350hrs. Agent even told me gallagher is always high
 
DROP GALLAGHER!!!!

I had them with my Christen Eagle, my rates went from 2300 to 3800. Got a new quote with AirCapital and was quoted 2100. That is for high performance biplane, no IFR and ~350hrs. Agent even told me gallagher is always high

Be looking for some pushback from your post.... :D
 
DROP GALLAGHER!!!!

I had them with my Christen Eagle, my rates went from 2300 to 3800. Got a new quote with AirCapital and was quoted 2100. That is for high performance biplane, no IFR and ~350hrs. Agent even told me gallagher is always high

This is not how the system works. Agencies like Gallagher provide service; they do not write policies themselves. You should have called them and asked for an explanation. One possibility is that the new agency mis-represented you, leaving out something negative? (If so and you ever file a claim, expect trouble). Another possibility: some years back people on vaf were raving over their great quote from insurance company X. I called Gallagher, asked why they didn?t offer me a quote from X. They told me that they wouldn?t quote them, because they lacked financial stability. Sure enough, 7 months later X dropped the aviation market, and all the policy holders were scrambling to get coverage. This is the kind of advice you pay a broker for. So, again, call Gallagher. $2100 vs $3800 something smells fishy.
 
I'm in year 3 of -10 ownership, 900+ hours total time, no instrument ticket
250+ hours in the -10

Mine went up again this year, now at $3286 ($2996 last year). No changes in coverage etc.

I have no accident history, etc.

This looks pretty expensive to me, BUT, everyone is different, and it?s tough to compare without all the facts. Things no one talks about:
Age. At some point it makes a difference.
Hull value. We all love our planes, but if you claim an unrealistic hull value (high), the insurance company gets nervous. They don?t like it if an ?accident? could make the owner extra money.
Liability limits: I was offered a sub limit of $100K per passenger, or no sub-limits ($1 million ?smooth?). Cost difference of $400.
IFR rating is worth something, more for low time pilots, less for high time, it seems.
History. Some companies want no accidents, others will forgive one, especially if you?ve been with them for a while.
And other stuff I?m sure.
 
This looks pretty expensive to me, BUT, everyone is different, and it?s tough to compare without all the facts. Things no one talks about:
Age. At some point it makes a difference.
Hull value. We all love our planes, but if you claim an unrealistic hull value (high), the insurance company gets nervous. They don?t like it if an ?accident? could make the owner extra money.
Liability limits: I was offered a sub limit of $100K per passenger, or no sub-limits ($1 million ?smooth?). Cost difference of $400.
IFR rating is worth something, more for low time pilots, less for high time, it seems.
History. Some companies want no accidents, others will forgive one, especially if you?ve been with them for a while.
And other stuff I?m sure.

You callin' me old?! :D

I'm 46, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I'm not really sure otherwise. I think the hull value is reasonable given how the airplane is equipped.
 
It?s all about supply and demand

AOPA and EAA have written several articles about the current status of the aviation insurance industry in the recent past and it is not good for those of us paying the premiums. I do not recall the exact numbers, but apparently the number of companies writing policies has dropped from around 20 down to around 12. This has caused the large increases in policy premiums that some are reporting. The only good news is that they believe that the situation will stabilize in five or so years and pricing will become more competitive again. I hold an ATP and CFI and have over 21,000 total time and about 900 hours in the RV-10. I was stunned when I got a notice that my insurance carrier was not going to renew my policy. It turns out that the company was going to stop writing policies on aircraft completely; it had nothing to do with me. I eventually went with AOPA and they found a underwriter that was charging me about $1,800 for a million dollars liability and one hundred thousand each passenger. That was just over a year ago and the value of the aircraft was $175,000. Then I put in a new panel and got a $20,000 paint job so I increased the value to $225,000 and the policy premium increased to $2,440. In the articles mentioned, they stressed the importance of filling as many of the boxes as possible. More hours, more ratings etc. Even though I am no longer required to maintain a First Class Medical certificate, I still get one hoping that will help offset my increasing age (74). Another thing that they recommend is staying with the same company. Apparently, developing a long clean track record with an individual insurance company will pay dividends in the future.
 
Here are a couple more data points for the discussion.

I recently got my annual quote from Gallagher, whom I'm very happy with by the way, and completed my IFR rating shortly after that initial quote. The new quote with IFR rating in hand was 11% less than not having the rating.

The premium was up 22% from last year.
 
The insurance market (all insurance) has ups and downs. They have been going through these cycles for sure since 1971 when I entered the business and I think since far longer than that. They make money and then the lower rates and ease underwriting rules. In aviation insurance, new companies enter the market and sell for low rates, effectively buying the business. Then because of the low rates and easier underwriting rules, they lose money. So then they go back to higher rates and tighter underwriting rules.

Many times things that people tell you will get you a lower rate will not. Several years ago I was a corporate pilot flying Citations. The chief pilot and I went to Atlanta to meet with our insurance company. We met with a vice president and the underwriter who was handling our policy. Then, and now, Safety Management Systems, are a big thing in corporate aviation. I ask the VP is we adopted a SMS would that lower our premiums. He said that at the time premiums were so low, that they could not give discounts for anything.

So while pilot rating, experience, hours in the airplane, etc. all make a difference, I think the biggest factor is the state of the insurance market at the time. And right now, it is a hard market, meaning they have raised rates and tightened underwriting rules.

The best way to handle aviation insurance is the get a good broker who specializes in aviation insurance. Tell them everything about your airplane, ownership, use, rental if any, aerobatics if any, airshows, if any, hangar, tied down, home base, etc. Then ask the broker to get you quotes from all the companies that insure you type of airplane. Not every aviation insurance company insures all types of aircraft. Review the quotes in detail, discuss them with the broker, ask for the brokers recommendation, and then make a decision. I think that will get you the best overall insurance solution. And that is not always the lowest rate.
 
FWIW in this discussion:
I use a broker who found: AIG $1M/100K at $180K hull. First renewal was last Dec. $2040.
Even at first time underwriting with 0 RV10 time, is was just a little over $2100 with a 1 hour checkout from owner/builder.
I'm ATP, with CFI,I, ME and 6 type ratings.
At the time I had 12,000+ hours with about 400+ in complex ASELs

With insurance, it's such a toss-up. Without seeing the actuarials they use and the myriad factors that go into risk assessment, your flight experience alone doesn't always add up to a good rate.
 
FWIW in this discussion:
I use a broker who found: AIG $1M/100K at $180K hull. First renewal was last Dec. $2040.
Even at first time underwriting with 0 RV10 time, is was just a little over $2100 with a 1 hour checkout from owner/builder.
I'm ATP, with CFI,I, ME and 6 type ratings.
At the time I had 12,000+ hours with about 400+ in complex ASELs

With insurance, it's such a toss-up. Without seeing the actuarials they use and the myriad factors that go into risk assessment, your flight experience alone doesn't always add up to a good rate.


Who is your broker? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Broker

I'll make a long story short, EBCO Aviation Insurance LLC dba Aerovon. My agent is Miller Stallings. They are in GA, NC and TN. You can look them up under either name. 800-972-8820

The longer version is the brokerage that found both my original and renewal policy through AIG was AIBNA (Aviation Insurance Brokers of North America in GA). This firm was acquired by Aerovon about a year ago. I'll be nurturing a new relationship with them now having been with AIBNA for a number of years with a previous airplane. Very little interaction with them yet beyond howdy-dos and we're your new broker/welcome letter, as my policy doesn't renew near year-end. As long as they can keep finding me good deals with solid underwriters, I'll stick with them.
 
I just bought my first GA plane, a RV-10, and my premium is $2300/yr for $175k. I went through Lima Bravo Aviation. Lee underwrites for many carriers and is really good at shopping the market. I found that my biggest issue was the runway length at my home airfield. Because it was only 2500’ I had several carriers deny me coverage. Had it been 2800’ or longer I wouldn’t have had any issues. I thought my CFII, ATP, airline and military flight experience would have made a difference in their decision making but it didn’t.
 
I just bought my first GA plane, a RV-10, and my premium is $2300/yr for $175k. ....... I thought my CFII, ATP, airline and military flight experience would have made a difference in their decision making but it didn?t.

Maybe it did make a difference. A lot of pilots with zero RV time (regardless of other experience) pay more than that until they have 50 or 100 hours in type.
 
Up 15%, caution about $1M smooth

Just got my renewal quote: up 15% over last year. Also, I carry $1M ?smooth? liability. There was a note that going to lower sublimits can lower my premium (last year it would have been $400 less) BUT I might never be able to go back, e.g., higher limits are currently only being offered to renewing customers.
 
Here's the problem. You guys insure the hull for inflight damages. I only carried "Ground not in motion" plus liability on my 6A. If Bubba ran his pickup into the plane it was covered. If a tree fell on the plane it was covered. If it hailed, it was covered. If I created a smoking hole it was not covered.

I basically have the same coverage on all of my automobiles.

This has worked for me all my life. Insurance is a scam.
 
Here's the problem. You guys insure the hull for inflight damages. I only carried "Ground not in motion" plus liability on my 6A.

This has worked for me all my life. Insurance is a scam.

Well, calling it a scam is a bit harsh. But you are correct: many seem to forget that insurance is for a loss which otherwise would be devastating. If your house has a second mortgage on it to pay for the plane, the lender might want insurance. If the kids? college fund is tied up in the airplane, you should consider hull insurance. But if you can afford the loss, then yes, you may be willing to roll the dice. One thing I?ve noticed is that many people insure for a hull value that exceeds their out of pocket costs to build the plane. e.g., I carry enough hull insurance to pay for the parts, but not my labor. That part was for fun.
 
Given the right appetite for risk one can "save" the premium the insurance company would make for the policy on the in motion coverage
on the hull value. IE carry no coverage on the hull. I have been told a good rule of thumb for hull coverage is that it costs 1% of the insured value. I wonder though if this lack of insurance would cause one to make a poor decision in the event of an in flight issue. IE Engine out upwind on climb out shortly after takeoff - instead of making the best aeronautical decision to keep the occupants alive would you be inclined to "save" the plane and attempt a turn back to the runway?

That said we insure our -10 for $200K, the current cost of the parts that would be needed to build another one. When fires hit Paradise California (2018 I think) there were plenty of people who had no insurance or insured the replacement value of their home for what it cost to build when they built it 30 years ago. Fast forward from when they built it and the cost to build the 2018 replacement home is vastly higher. The owners (knowingly or unknowingly) saved that additional premium money on insurance all those years and then when their homes got burned to the ground got a check for something less than what it would cost to build a replacement home in 2018 dollars.

Not saying one insurance decision/risk tolerance fits all but rather that people make an informed decision.

RV-10
1st year of ownership
0 hrs RV 10 time
PP Rating
$200k hull coverage
Premium $2,444

2nd year of ownership (Current Year)
200 hrs RV 10 time
Instrument rating
$200k Hull coverage
Premium was $2,348
 
I just got quoted. The broker queried six carriers. Two quotes were in the ball park of $3000 annually for $250K in hull coverage with $1mil/$100K liability. A third quote was nearly $6000 annually. Three carriers declined to offer coverage. The best rate was from AIG.

I fly for a living but was honest on the application about having no time in RV-10's. The quoted rates require two hours of dual and one hour of solo.

The rates are also based on being hangared in Florida. Florida obviously has hurricanes. I don't know how much that impacts the rate vs. other parts of the country? And I'm also very curious why three carriers declined to offer coverage (QBE, USAIG & IAT)?

$3000 ($1650 for not-in-motion coverage) is more than I was anticipating but there's not too much I can do about it.
 
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Latest renewal

Jan 2021 renewal, $180K hull, $1M smooth (apparently no longer available to new customers, but still available on renewal) $2335/year. USAIG through Falcon.

Me: 3500 total time, 1400+ in RV-10, Commercial, Instrument, CFI, AGI, A&P.
 
Jan 2021 renewal, $180K hull, $1M smooth (apparently no longer available to new customers, but still available on renewal) $2335/year. USAIG through Falcon.

Me: 3500 total time, 1400+ in RV-10, Commercial, Instrument, CFI, AGI, A&P.

Wow, only $180k hull??? Would you sell your -10 for $180k? Seems to me that's pretty low...

-Marc
 
Just got my renewal for this year. Went with a different carrier, but my premium dropped $1000 for the same coverage. Carrier is now HARCO. $200k hull and $1M liability. 130 hours in type now
 
I am carrying $165 hull. That's what is actually in it for parts. Decisions like this are always a compromise...
 
Much the same as Bill Boyd.
Mine was below $2000 until this year when I added my son to the policy.
He just got his private ticket middle of last year and the insurance required
10hrs dual and 10 hours solo."sounds fair".
The premium went up $1000, also understandable.
Gallagher is my broker and they often give me a choice of carriers, the cheapest is not always the best when it comes to service. I am hoping I will never need service but that is why I carry insurance. As for carrying hull insurance, I self insured my hull on the RV 8 and liability was relatively cheap.
The RV-10 valued around 185,000 is a bit out of my league to self insure.
the choice is yours.
 
When you insure your 10 for ~$180k it will be difficult to replace it with a flying 10. But it will cover your cost to build another one. It's all a compromise.

Fly Safe and hopefully you won't need to use that insurance
 
Just got my renewal for this year. Went with a different carrier, but my premium dropped $1000 for the same coverage. Carrier is now HARCO. $200k hull and $1M liability. 130 hours in type now

So just to be sure you are now paying $1700? That seems far more reasonable. Do you have a link for HARCO? I might have to check them out.

I'm due for my renewal in a few weeks. First year was $2700 with AIG.
$239,000 hull ($0 not in motion/$0 in motion deductibles)
$1,000,000 per occurrence/$100,000 per passenger liability
$5,000 medical per passenger

Now I'm at 4400 total (about 450 more than last year) and 120 RV-10 (0 last year). Thought rates would drop with the time, but instead renewal is quoted at $2800:mad:. Seems rather backwards to me.
 
So just to be sure you are now paying $1700? That seems far more reasonable. Do you have a link for HARCO? I might have to check them out.

I'm due for my renewal in a few weeks. First year was $2700 with AIG.
$239,000 hull ($0 not in motion/$0 in motion deductibles)
$1,000,000 per occurrence/$100,000 per passenger liability
$5,000 medical per passenger

Now I'm at 4400 total (about 450 more than last year) and 120 RV-10 (0 last year). Thought rates would drop with the time, but instead renewal is quoted at $2800:mad:. Seems rather backwards to me.

It's not going to get better... I just got my new premium quote, $2300 with 200k hull. I have 26,000+ TT and over 100 in type. I opted to add my son, 400TT & 60 in type, and 250k hull which made the premium $3200 through IAT.
 
Insurance premiums for RV-10

I was quoted $2900 for $225k Hull insurance (probably light given current prices), $500K in liability. I have about 700 hours, 500 of them in an RV-9A. I go with the EAA Broker, Falcon. They have handled my '9 and rates have been reasonably stabile.
 
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