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GRT Mini

gtmule

Well Known Member
Any info on this? I'm 90% done installing an HXr, but since I eventually want to do IFR, the Mini looks like a great backup solution for me, is there more info available? Interested mostly in external connections, which external modules are required (mag, gps, ahrs, etc), and panel cutout dimensions.

Also, cost and availability info for the various versions.

Thanks,
Chuck
 
Introducing the GRT Mini...

Thanks Brian & Chuck,

A lot of info can be found here. The template for mounting is linked on the bottom of the page. The vertical and horizontal cutout dimensions will be the same as that listed, but the depth of the machined aluminum case may still increase a bit as we finalize everything. Pitot/static lines will enter the back of the unit, as well as the D-sub connector and optional plug-in backup battery. The AHRS is internal and independent of the main EFIS.

As far as external modules, the Mini-B "backup" is all self-contained, except for the included GPS antenna (the same we currently use for our EFIS GPS). The Mini-X (adding synthetic vision and basic autopilot control) and Mini-AP can have a remote magnetometer so they can use magnetic heading instead of a GPS derived track/heading. This is included on the AP and an option for the X (included through the end of April 2014).

The Mini-AP will have built-in ARINC 429 for interface with Garmin IFR GPS units, so it functions like an independent autopilot with flight instruments and a moving map. The GRT autopilot can be controlled by either the full-sized EFIS or the Mini-AP with a flip of a switch. When equipped with GRT servos, the Mini-AP can also function as an autopilot and backup EFIS in aircraft with a primary EFIS system of a different brand.

The price for the Mini B is $995 through the end of April 2014. The Mini X and AP are more-- I'll have a pricing and features comparison chart on the Mini web page in the next day or so.

We are anticipating production to ramp up for the Mini-B after Christmas. Pre-orders for all 3 Mini models are now being taken with no deposit required.

We're very excited about the Mini. In airplanes where panel space is at a premium, such as the RV-8, it provides a great backup flight instrument option for IFR redundancy. It is a solution for pilots who like the GRT autopilot, but prefer a control head independent of the primary EFIS. Plus, it has the same basic pilot interface as our other EFIS systems, something you don't want to think twice about during an emergency.

More information will be posted on our website soon, including basic wiring schematics and a feature/pricing chart.
 
Hi Katie,

I've been waiting a long time for a sub $1,000 small form-factor EFIS, and this one looks great. I currently have two Sport EFIS's - is there any way the Mini can interface to the Sport EFIS to share simple things like barometer settings?
 
Hi Katie,

I've been waiting a long time for a sub $1,000 small form-factor EFIS, and this one looks great. I currently have two Sport EFIS's - is there any way the Mini can interface to the Sport EFIS to share simple things like barometer settings?

That was my other question. I'd also like to use the Mini as GPS2 on my HXr, if possible.
 
Or maybe an RV 3;)

Yes Mr. Starkey... I know of at least one RV-3 that will get a MINI!

A Mini engine display is on the drawing board.

I will check tomorrow to see exactly what information will cross the inter-display link between the Mini and the big display units. You guys have good questions...
 
GRT MINI MOUNTING

Hello Katie

Can the Mini be mounted on a bracket ( Ram style ) like a Dynon D2 or is it just panel mounted??

If it is like the D2, you just sold one..:)

I need an IFR Back up in my -4

Bruno
rv4"videotron.ca
 
Hello Katie

Can the Mini be mounted on a bracket ( Ram style ) like a Dynon D2 or is it just panel mounted??

If it is like the D2, you just sold one..:)

I need an IFR Back up in my -4

Bruno
rv4"videotron.ca

It looks like it's meant for panel mounting, especially as it requires pitot-static connections. I don't see why you couldn't make a little sheet metal bracket maybe with some angles holding it up (a mini-panel, really) and run pitot-static lines to it if you could find the real estate.
 
Hi Bruno,

It's designed to be panel-mounted. The pitot/static lines and wiring hang out the back, so you would have a hard time putting it on a bracket-style mount. Plus the AHRS is inside, and I believe that needs to be solidly mounted, level with the airplane just like the big EFIS.
 
+1 for Mini-EMS

Hi Katie,

I'm also really interested in a Mini-EMS. I have an EIS-4000 in an airplane that is short on panel space.
I would really like an analogue tacho (& possibly MP) with other parameters popping up if they exceed limits.
Would be great if the Mini-EMS could replace the EIS-4000 box, albeit with a little metal work.

Pete

PS will it take an SD card for downloads?
 
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More info...

Altimeter settings will be part of the data pack that transmits across the GRT Sport/Horizon EFIS-to-Mini serial inter-display link, along with screen dimming and some other basics. You will also be able to use the Mini's GPS as your secondary GPS on the HXr or other GRT EFIS. So YES to both of those questions from yesterday.

The Mini series uses USB like our other EFIS systems, so no plans for SD card data. USB is very versatile and has been working well for us for a growing number of features. The Mini will (of course) have a Mini USB adapter.

I just posted a full features & pricing list on the Mini web page that lists the differences between the Mini models.

Thanks for your input and questions!
 
Hi Katie, the mini looks great! Will the (future) EIS also be a S/W upgrade (with the requisite interface box of course) to any of the minis? Yes I want it all, split screen with EIS info along the bottom ;)
Gunther
 
MINI EFIS

Thanks Katie

That's too bad, it will have made the perfect back up for IFR.

I'm lacking the real estate ( Fully loaded RV-4 ) to install it in the panel..

I guess I will have to go with the D1-D2 .

Bruno
 
This mini efis is looking to be very attractive. I would like to see the manual and pics of the rear connectors. I hope there is more than one electrical connector such that it will simplify later connections to magnetometers, oat probes, etc.
 
Hmm... I like the VM1000 replacement idea! I'll mention that to Todd.

Now is the time for Mini EMS ideas!

I'm working on the Mini-B manual and wiring documentation now. I'll let you know as soon as it's published.
 
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I just posted a full features & pricing list on the Mini web page that lists the differences between the Mini models.

Hi Katie,
What is the cost of the Mini-AP without the servos? I am thinking that some of us may already have the servos along with a primary HX or HXr EFIS, and are just looking for a backup.

Thanks,

-Dj
 
Now is the time for Mini EMS ideas!

ok, integrate the EMS into the EFIS box so we can flip-flop a single unit between efis and ems. That way I can have two units with double redundancy and a lighter overall package. Just do it. Build it and they will come.

That is quite an upcharge for the CDI option. You know people will want the AP unit without bundled servos, just to get CDI. Will that be offered?

What's the screen resolution?

What is the GPS update rate?

What I envision is having one AP and one X. Both will flip flop between ems and efis. Both will have CDI.

I am impressed so far that you are offering moving map and hits on these buggers. Dont stop there, give 'em everything.
 
More specs:

480 x 272 screen resolution
5 Hz VFR WAAS-enabled GPS

The Mini-AP will come with the remote magnetometer and a built-in ARINC 429 interface, so it's more than just a CDI. I'm about to update the website to add the AP's price without servos-- subtract the cost of the standard-torque pitch and roll servo, which comes to $2,100 for just the Mini-AP.

As far as being able to show map, engine and flight instruments all on the same box-- remember for just $2,600, you can get a 6.5" Sport EFIS with internal AHRS & GPS and a screen that's a little bigger, but big enough to display all that information.
 
The sport is 2600 plus 1000 for the ems. I want that magic box in a small package. Being able to offer ems flip flop, as an option, seems like a marketable item. What I dislike about your ems currently is that I have to buy and program that old school looking gadget, and mount it remotely I guess, but that doesnt make sense to me. Ya most ems have a remote DAQ item, so why not pipe that into the mini efis and eliminate the need for dedicated ems display hardware? I am thinking rv4 here, two mini units, radio, xpdr, 7" android tablet for charts and checklist, that takes up all panel space. So one ems daq feeding 2 minis, I would have redundant everything should there be a display failure. With both displays active I can have all info distributed over two screens. With a display failure I can flip flop to the required screens. Just voicing my opinions, im glad to see you guys innovating. GRT is still my #1 like.

Cool, on the price of the AP without servos. I only meant if you wanted CDI you had to move up 1500 bucks to the AP with servos, but you are fixing that.

Nice resolution, should display well. It seems just about the size of my droid razr screen (by dimensions not resolution).

awesome GPS specs, thanks.
 
You're welcome! I know it's early to be talking about the Mini EMS, but I like reading what you all want. The guys who are doing the development will see all these ideas, so thank you!
 
Hi Katie -

First, congrats on an awesome product the market sorely needs!

Second...do you have any specs on the remote magnetometer (i.e. footprint and number of wires)?

Thanks!

Louis
 
VERY interested in the Mini! Quick question; it appears that the minis will not have your calculated AOA function? I am kind of wanting to kill two birds with one stone (replace my wonky electric AI and add AOA) and AOA is one item that the Dynon D6 and D10 have that makes them attractive. Your product has, well, everything else. I am very impressed with the pricing on this unit as well as the new pricing on the Sport and other larger units in your line, especially considering the features and functions included. Good work!
 
Good morning!

According to my information, the remote magnetometer will have 4 wires and a small CNC machined case. It is a newer, smaller design than the EFIS mag, but I don't know all of the details yet.

The GPS antenna will be a remote puck like most typical GPS antennas, but the chip itself will be inside the Mini unit.

I will ask about AOA...
 
More info...

I've just posted a rear bezel drawing of the Mini-B and Mini-X with wiring information. Mini-AP will add ARINC-429.

I've also just learned that it will control a remote TT22 transponder as well...
 
I really love the new unit. I first saw it at Oshkosh and have been speaking to GRT about it since. My plan was to keep my existing gauges for IFR backup and put the mini in place of the attitude indicator in a standard six pack arrangement with the nav indicator below it. When the final specs were decided on and I found out that the engine gauges would not go on the screen and it would not interface to the nav radio I decided to go with the EFIS sport instead. It will be here tomorrow and will go in this weekend. I do plan on someday getting a mini as a backup and ditching the round gauges in the future though. And I will most likely replace the EIS with the mini EMS when it comes out also.
 
I've also just learned that it will control a remote TT22 transponder as well...

Katie, you are really throwing a monkey wrench into my carefully thought out panel upgrade... :)

I am currently upgrading from steam gauges to a single screen HX EFIS. I was going to keep my analog airspeed and altimeter. I am all set to buy an Android 7" tablet so I could use the GRT app as a second display and to enter/modify flight plans without taking the HX away from the PFD screen. When I can afford it, I was going to get a TT22 with the small round panel control for ADS-B Out to go nicely with my SkyRadar D2 ADS-B receiver.

So now you are saying the Mini will control a TT22 and I won't need a separate control head (saves about $300), and of course it does everything the GRT app on the tablet will do, plus a lot more (saves $200). Essentially for $500 more I get a much nicer setup with the -B, or $900 more for the -X gives me an almost complete backup for the HX, and I can get rid of my analog airspeed and altimeter.

How well will the -B or the -X interface with an HX model? Will the HX also be able to control the TT22?

My head is spinning, but I'm excited! :)

Thanks,

-Dj
 
Possible panel plan

My somewhat thought out plan would be to replace my old, first generation D-10 with the new Mini then, down the road, go with the Horizon when I get around to redoing my panel so that it has the IFR bells and whistles and use the Mini as my back up. I could have the functioning autopilot in place through the Mini. A real bonus (my idea posted here) would be if my VM-1000 could be plug and play replaced with a Mini EMS. There are a lot of us with those units. So for a reasonable amount of money and minimal panel surgery, my capabilities would be greatly enhanced pending the "next big deal."

Just waiting....

John
RV-8
 
A few Questions

1) Temperature operating and storage limits?

2) How much panel tilt angle adjustability does the set up software allow? (Being that the Mini X has it's own internal AHRS and that all panels are not inclined at the same angle.)

3) Lets say we are having a bad day on approach in icing and we lost our pitot heat due to an alternator failure. The pitot blocks so we are left with the mini X with it's own back up battery and GPS synthetic vision.

Does the displayed airspeed fail over to GPS ground speed and does the blocked pitot foul the displayed altitude or does it fail over to a GPS altitude?

Does the synthetic vision image change with the blocked pitot or remain true to the GPS data?
 
How well will the -B or the -X interface with an HX model? Will the HX also be able to control the TT22?

Ah, more great questions! Sorry I didn't read this sooner.

The Minis will all interface with any of our EFIS systems through an RS-232 serial port.

Serial control for the TT22 through HX will likely show up in the next software update. I haven't seen the details of the transponder interface yet for that or the Mini, so I can't comment on how easy it is to use. It likely will not be as easy as HXr just because there are more buttons on the HXr dedicated to remote controls. And, it will require use of a serial port, so you might not want to use a serial port just for that if you only have one EFIS screen. When we release that feature I'll post some screenshots of the transponder interface, or better yet, come to our booth and push buttons at Sebring or SNF to see if you like it.

Yes, my evil plan has always been to throw monkey wrenches in well-laid panel designs... ;)
 
The Mini is Todd's baby and he is off today for Thanksgiving, but here is what I know:

1) Temperature operating and storage limits?

We've tested the Mini here to +180F and 0F with no adverse behavior, other than the screen started to get a little funky over 180. No damage occurred at either end of the scale.

2) How much panel tilt angle adjustability does the set up software allow? (Being that the Mini X has it's own internal AHRS and that all panels are not inclined at the same angle.)

It will have an adjustment for tilted panels (Pitch Ladder Offset). The Mini will likely have the same amount as the EFIS, -35 to +35 degrees, but I will confirm that with Todd.

3) Lets say we are having a bad day on approach in icing and we lost our pitot heat due to an alternator failure. The pitot blocks so we are left with the mini X with it's own back up battery and GPS synthetic vision.

Does the displayed airspeed fail over to GPS ground speed and does the blocked pitot foul the displayed altitude or does it fail over to a GPS altitude?

Does the synthetic vision image change with the blocked pitot or remain true to the GPS data?

As long as you have GPS, the synthetic vision will stay up. Attitude is also not dependent on pitot/static, so you will have a horizon as well. GPS-based speed and altitude information will be available, but I don't know if it will automatically switch over. This would be the ideal data input, because you would have actual airspeed and altitude in all situations except those where your pitot is blocked.

Thanks again for the very good questions! I will check with Todd on the ones I don't know when he comes back. Have a great Thanksgiving!
 
Looks nice, and I know a number of people who would like a small EFIS like this as a stepping stone before a major panel upgrade. It's too bad you couldn't capture the retrofit market by having it fit into a standard 3" hole like Dynon did with the D10.

You mention that it will use USB for updates... Will that require removing it to take it to your computer, or will you be able to plug in a thumb drive? The only annoying thing about my D10A is that I have to borrow a laptop to upgrade it as it only uses serial and removing it from the panel is a pain.
 
will you be able to plug in a thumb drive?

Hi Rob,
The larger GRT EFIS systems use a thumb drive for updates, so very likely the Mini will as well. One difference is that the Mini uses a mini-USB, so you will need to use a cable to go from mini to regular USB for the thumb drive to plug in. You can buy cables where one end is a panel mount port so you can simply have this as a permanent installation. GRT sells these for the larger EFIS units, so I suspect they will carry one with the different plug that will work for the mini. The panel mounted port is very useful for being able to easily use a thumb drive to record in-flight data from the EFIS, then take the thumb drive home with you.

On that note, I can't think of any reason why you couldn't install a similar cable for your Dynon D10 serial port so you don't have to remove it from the panel for updates.

-Dj
 
I've got a serial port wired in that I can uncoil from behind the panel, but it still needs a laptop. I have an iPad, an Android phone, and a Linux-based netbook. No portable Windows software here, and that's what the Dynon software needs. I think I'm one version behind, but I don't think I'm missing any significant functionality.
 
Two questions, Katie: First, do you have any screen shots anywhere of the MiniB? The MiniX with the SV looks great, but it would be nice to see the more basic presentation as well. Second, did you ever get an answer on whether these units will have AOA? Thanks.
 
Hi Gerry,

AOA is being explored as an option, but I don't have any details about availability or features yet.

Here's a screenshot off the Mini-B (no synthetic vision):

Mini-B.png
 
More questions

Unit looks great. Just have a few more questions about the Mini-X.

1. What drives the heading bug? Manually set to a heading or can input from external handheld GPS flight plan drive it?

2. What do you mean by stand alone GPS Navigator?

3. Can you flip/flop display between indicated air speed, true airspeed and GPS ground speed or will it show all three at same time?

4. By limited Auto-Pilot do you mean it will only control pitch and roll and no altitude change?

5. Nice offer to initially include the Magnetometer with the Mini-X. Any chance offering OAT probe and battery as an alternative to the Magnetometer? Do I need a Magnetometer if I have a compass?

Thanks for your response
 
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Have ordered a Mini-X and now anxiously await delivery...

Katie - do you have an ETA on the initial cut of installation and operation manuals?

I know I'm not the only customer trying to figure out how to fit this into our existing equipment architecture, so this "how does it work" info is critical (as you've seen from previous questions).

In our case, the Mini-X will be a backup to a Horizon HS. Primary GPS source will be a GNS480 wired to the HS and the TruTrak Vizion autopilot (via a selector switch). Now I'm trying to figure out which GPS to use as an input to the Mini - either RS232 from the GNS480 or RS232 from the portable G396, or the Mini's internal GPS. Knowing how that GPS data can be used by the Mini will greatly influence this decision.
 
More answers...

Hi Guys-- Sorry it took so long to respond to these, I had to double check some facts!


1. What drives the heading bug? Manually set to a heading or can input from external handheld GPS flight plan drive it?
You can do both if you have the external magnetometer option. On the Mini-X, you can use the knob to set the heading bug if you have the magnetometer. Either way, you'll be able to track either the internal or an external GPS flight plan or direct-to.

2. What do you mean by stand alone GPS Navigator? You will be able to enter and track a GPS flight plan using the Mini's own internal GPS, showing a GPS CDI needle, and time/distance/bearing to waypoint.

3. Can you flip/flop display between indicated air speed, true airspeed and GPS ground speed or will it show all three at same time? You'll be able to configure data boxes on the PFD screen to display TAS and groundspeed as supplemental information near the airspeed tape.

4. By limited Auto-Pilot do you mean it will only control pitch and roll and no altitude change? Yes. The Mini-X will have Heading mode (with magnetometer), ENAV (GPS tracking), and Altitude Hold. It will also track a VOR/LOC signal if you have a serial nav receiver connected to it, such as an SL30.

5. Nice offer to initially include the Magnetometer with the Mini-X. Any chance offering OAT probe and battery as an alternative to the Magnetometer? Do I need a Magnetometer if I have a compass? You won't need a magnetometer, but it will add some good functionality to the Mini because it will give you use of the heading bug, and actual heading will be displayed instead of GPS track. To keep it simple I'll say no substitutions, but if you call and talk to Todd, who knows what he'll tell you. :)
 
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Have ordered a Mini-X and now anxiously await delivery...

Katie - do you have an ETA on the initial cut of installation and operation manuals?

I know I'm not the only customer trying to figure out how to fit this into our existing equipment architecture, so this "how does it work" info is critical (as you've seen from previous questions).

In our case, the Mini-X will be a backup to a Horizon HS. Primary GPS source will be a GNS480 wired to the HS and the TruTrak Vizion autopilot (via a selector switch). Now I'm trying to figure out which GPS to use as an input to the Mini - either RS232 from the GNS480 or RS232 from the portable G396, or the Mini's internal GPS. Knowing how that GPS data can be used by the Mini will greatly influence this decision.

First of all, thanks for your order!

I've got a long to-do list before Christmas, but the priority right after New Year's is to get the Mini manuals done, starting with the B. If you're familiar with the HS, you're already familiar with the basic GRT EFIS logic. The Mini follows right along with that for both wiring and pilot interface.

I asked Ben about which GPS he'd use in your situation, and here's what he said: "The Mini-X GPS can be used alone for internal flight plans. If you are going to use an outside GPS source to feed the Mini also, then you can connect them via serial port. The 480 and the 396 will supply the same position and flight plan data via the serial connection. If you have the mapping option on the Mini-X, then you would not gain anything by having the external GPS units feed position and navigate on the X, other than the carry-over of flight plans. Out of the two, I'd use the 396, because the only time that you are going to worry about it is when the rest of the electrical system has failed and the only thing you have left is the Mini and 396, running off of their own batteries."

I will add that you might find one device to be easier to enter flight plans than the others, and that might sway your wiring decision as well. Which flight plan interface do you plan to use for everyday flight? GRT HS, the 396, or the 480? If you use the HS alot for flight planning, then the Mini will be a seamless piece of cake to use on its own when everything else goes dark. If you primarily use the Garmins for flight planning, which one will be available if you have an electrical failure? GRT flight planning is not difficult, but it is different from the 480 and the 396. If you can use the device you're most comfortable with to enter the flight plan to be displayed on the Mini, then you'll have an easier time if you need to navigate somewhere without ATC's help.
 
As usual, excellent responses, Katie (and Ben!). Thanks for getting this info posted.

(I still can hardly believe that I'm going from having a Horizon HS surrounded by steam gauges to an HS and a Mini, with sufficient space to upgrade to an 8.4" HX should funds ever become available. There's so much extra space in the panel now!)
 
Reading this again I just caught this line...
"On the Mini-X, you can use the left knob to set the heading bug if you have the magnetometer."

Katie - I suspect you meant to say "right knob to set the heading bug"? If the Mini-X has both left and right knobs then I'll spend all day twiddling them! LoL
 
Dj - please do go right ahead and order that Mini-X. Since your plane is flying I'll be able to learn from your experience and recommendations. Hmmm... maybe I'll even have to drop down to Maine to see it with my own eyes! (Gotta love flying bums who invite themselves over and leave their greasy nose prints and drool on your airplane...)
 
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