What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Neighbor kids got into my shop...

aarvig

Well Known Member
Yep you guessed it. I forgot to lock the door and the little "fill in the blanks" got in and did this to my right elevator (of course the top)...
DSC_0003-4.jpg


DSC_0001-3.jpg


I tried so hard to have a dent free empennage, I even replaced this skin previously because of a dent. Now those little rascals did this. Is this fillable or do I have to replace the skin?
Lesson learned, lock the shop...oh and don't expect a perfect plane.:mad:
 
I would take it as a lesson learned and replace or accept

I would take it as a lesson learned and replace or accept the dented skin - but then I'm a passive soul that can't stand the ongoing tension brought about by confrontation. I would never survive in Texas. There is a bigger picture to consider on many fronts that only you are fully aware of including your work environment. The bottom line is the skin is damaged and I would replace it at this stage or I would leave it as is as structurally safe and accept the appearance. Attempts to fill this thin skin may work but my experience with a epoxy fillet on the rudder trim wedge was bad. The edges delaminated after painting. Some builders fill all the rivet locations and end up with a composite looking finish so experience varies.

Bob Axsom
 
I can't see the picture from work (site blocked) but I would be careful about additional weight in the empennage based upon the results of the Canadian accident discussed recently.

An experienced builder can put an elevator together in just a couple of days. Buy the parts and re-build it. In the mean time, work on something else to take your mind off of it and the little *&$^&@ who did it.
 
different approach

If you accept the dent and scratch then every time you look at it it will T you off.

Of course there a bizillion different ways to handle this. I would definately take the part to the parents and explain what happened. They may look at it and consider what you are building crazy and dismiss the whole thing. But, depending on the age of the kids and your relationship with the neighbors, you might consider buying new parts and having the kids come over to help you rebuild it. It might just help build a new kind of relationship with the kids and a new elevator.

My 2 c.
 
Some properly applied filler and that will never be seen again...unless you plan to polish instead of paint.
 
I agree with Brain -- fill it and forget it.

And, for your consideration, I once heard of a similar problem that a friend had with a neighbor's cat. The cat loved to come into my friend's garage and walk all over his car with his muddy paws. The friend mentioned this to his neighbor and suggested that he keep his cat at home instead of in my friend's garage. The neighbor suggested that my friend keep his garage door closed.

Fair enough. At least they had an adult discussion about it and remained friends.

Not sure what ever happened to the cat. It just ... disappeared ... :eek:

Since the dent/scratch is so small, I think you stand a greater chance of damaging the ribs by enlarging the holes when you drill out all of those rivets. Given a choice, I'll take a small, filled dent over enlarged rivet holes, but that's just me.

Depending on how old these miscreants are, it might be personally rewarding for you to invite the little rascals into your shop and teach them how to rivet on some scrap. And show them how to drill out rivets. It might sink in that the damage they did wasn't insignificant and you might end up with a riveting buddy out of the deal someday (if you build as slowly as I did, they'll be teenagers by the time you need someone to crawl back into the tailcone with a bucking bar!)
 
Last edited:
It's An Airplane

It's an airplane, not a loved one. Of course it can still fly. I don't understand the angst displayed by many homebuilders concerning perfection. I thought we were building airplanes to fly. Sleepless nights about how they look seems to me to defeat the whole purpose. Yes, a lot of hard, painstaking work went into the build. But it's still a thing...not a person. This reminds me of people who buy trucks and keep them immaculate...huh? As for the kids...now there's a topic that warrants sleepless nights and lots of care. Go fly.
 
Or maybe a motion-activated dog...

But I think you could try Steve's approach and, if the parents are willing to pay for it, replace the entire part with assistance from the kids - using the old one as a practice part. But I wouldn't put a lot of effort or confrontation into it; as others have mentioned, it's easy to fix by polishing out the scratch and filling. If you do it carefully you won't cover the rivets and, once painted, it won't be visible.
 
Some properly applied filler and that will never be seen again...unless you plan to polish instead of paint.

+2...it's a tiny scratch and dent compared to some I've seen. The ones that were worse got filler and they are enjoying flying as much as possible.
 
Fill and paint

+3. I punched a little hole in my rudder skin while dimpling with the C-Frame -- early days of building. Filled and painted over it. 450 hours later you would never know it was there.
 
IMO, the parents owe you a new skin or elevator. The buck stops at the top.

Best,

I would definitely get the kids parents advised of what is going on (breaking and entering, and trespassing). Tell the parents you will be elavating security for the property and speaking with local authorities may need to take place. This is total BS and if they damage parts of the aircraft you never catch, well that could be very bad down the road. I do agree if you could get the kids to come over and learn about what you are doing (and all the work) it may help to resolve the issue.

Next, I would secure your facility and keep some sort of lighting active at all times during the night (so they think you might be filming with a remote camera inside). Sorry to hear about the problems but you can't be passive about this kind of activity. I live in Austin, TX and I can say I never have problems like this but if I did I would handle it ASAP! ;)
 
Last edited:
I like the idea of the parents paying for the part and the kids helping fix it. Taking responsibility for ones own actions seems to be lost to the self centered, instant gratification culture. The parents would learn to keep their kids in check, the kids would learn consequences as well as a skill they were previously not exposed to. Plus the fact that they would even consider entering someone else's property tells me a lesson needs to be taught. I worked a whole summer to replace a window broken with a baseball, and had to go down and apologize to neighbors for cutting through lawns on my bike... thanks to good parents and forgiving neighbors for teaching me those lessons.
 
Obviously I don't know these kids or their parents but perhaps you could take a different tack here: invite them over and teach them how to build an airplane. Teach them how to buck rivets and fill in dented skins. It sounds like these kids need a little interventional change in direction. I suspect getting in the face of their parents will only serve to create hostility in the neighborhood. I might be living in a dream world but I think getting them interested in something besides TV and video games could ultimately open up a new world to them. If they can develop a little pride in this project, you've solved numerous current and potential problems.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. I took some more photos of it and sent them to Ken and my building mentor. Both feel it is definitely fillable. To be honest, I am tired of trying to chase a perfect plane...frankly it costs to much and with my life schedule is way to much work. My biggest concern was safety.
As for the rascals, I should provide more details before we all send our kids to the work camp. These kids were in the 3-5 year old range. I have a shop in my basement where everything is at and I SHOULD have locked the door. I have little kids myself (age 3, 5, and 6) and they always have their friends over. The night before this happened I had a brain fart and left the door unlocked. I have a little corner of the workshop with broken or unacceptable parts that I let the kids tinker with when I am in the shop and they love to watch me rivet and work. So they see me working on the plane. I am sure one of them just mimicked what they had been seeing but with a screwdriver when they got into the shop. I do not feel it was intentional. Yes I am upset at them but in reality I am more upset with myself and my dumb luck (the one time I leave the door unlocked:eek:).
Anyway, I am not going to start world war 3 over this. I already talked to the kids at the bus stop about staying out of my shop when I am not there.
Now, if they were a little older, they'd be paying and building it for me.:D
The elevator stays on, it will be repaired, I will move on and be happy. And I will always know there is a little builder out there who needs some instruction on how to properly work on a plane.:D He'll come in handy when I am working on the fuselage!
 
My son Eric used to hang out in the garage while I was working on my RV-4 empennage. He was about 4 or so. One day he apparently took a break from his 2x8 wood chunk and bag of roofing nails "project". I turned around and he had my mill file sawing against the HS leading edge!!

Me "Eric, what are you doing!"
Eric "I'm helping!" (said in a 4 year old voice)

Classic, and we often use that phrase now (he's 24)

Turned out he had zero pressure on the file and didn't even make a mark.
 
Shop access!

I once came home from work to find my 10 year old inputting the code for the garage door to get into my shop with a friend. As soon as I opened the door and he saw me...he knew he was busted.

Knowing him, he would have briefed them to not touch anything or any tool, but would they listen?

Needless to say, his friends are very aware now, as they were present for the "talk" my son and I had, about who and when persons are allowed in.

The more that know the better as they all now check each other when thinking about going in. I have even heard them ask..."is your dad in there?" before they enter.

I cannot blame him for wanting to show his friends the project he and I are working on, but there are boundaries that have to be clearly set with all ages. This was not his first warning either.

The code will be changed soon and retained by my wife and I only to be double sure. ;)
 
Last edited:
Yes I am upset at them but in reality I am more upset with myself and my dumb luck (the one time I leave the door unlocked:eek:).

While it probably seems like a great coincidence, I expect that little guy has tried the shop door a couple of hundred times, until................cha ching, now I'm an airplane builder :D
 
WOW!!!

Thanks for all the replies guys. I took some more photos of it and sent them to Ken and my building mentor. Both feel it is definitely fillable. To be honest, I am tired of trying to chase a perfect plane...frankly it costs to much and with my life schedule is way to much work. My biggest concern was safety.
As for the rascals, I should provide more details before we all send our kids to the work camp. These kids were in the 3-5 year old range. I have a shop in my basement where everything is at and I SHOULD have locked the door. I have little kids myself (age 3, 5, and 6) and they always have their friends over. The night before this happened I had a brain fart and left the door unlocked. I have a little corner of the workshop with broken or unacceptable parts that I let the kids tinker with when I am in the shop and they love to watch me rivet and work. So they see me working on the plane. I am sure one of them just mimicked what they had been seeing but with a screwdriver when they got into the shop. I do not feel it was intentional. Yes I am upset at them but in reality I am more upset with myself and my dumb luck (the one time I leave the door unlocked:eek:).
Anyway, I am not going to start world war 3 over this. I already talked to the kids at the bus stop about staying out of my shop when I am not there.
Now, if they were a little older, they'd be paying and building it for me.:D
The elevator stays on, it will be repaired, I will move on and be happy. And I will always know there is a little builder out there who needs some instruction on how to properly work on a plane.:D He'll come in handy when I am working on the fuselage!

I learned a lot about some of the people that post here.

I wondered from the beginning if it were possible the kids were very young. Had they been older and had they been malicious then it would be a different story. Sometimes we're a quick to judge.

As for the airplane...the damage I see in the pictures in completely negligible. That said...I'm not a perfectionist, but I see myself as a realist. I have one of those on my rudder. I dropped the rudder while getting ready to install it. It (the ding) will stay there and I'll always be reminded to be much more careful.

By the way...the work in your photos displays fantastic craftsmanship. Just don't let it drive you crazy. :)
 
Relating

I think we can all relate to this post. I think most of us strive for perfection when starting something like this because we want it to look great and want it to be safe.

There were many times in the project that I couldn't sleep at night because of a dent or a scratch or something that I'd worry about (mainly empennage phase). As many of you have mentioned, that's just part of the deal, and you have to fix it however it makes you happy and press on. Some might leave it like it is ... some might take it off and start over.... and some (like me) would lightly sand the groove so there are no sharp edges, fill it and press on. I feel there is no compromise in safety by doing that.

My 17 year old son was playing ping pong and the paddle slipped out of his hand (his story and he's sticking to it). He dented two of the large wing panels that were against the wall (before I started the wings). I was bumbed (again) at the idea of wanting a perfect airplane but not having the perfect airplane. But things happen along the way of this awesome journey, and all we can do is try to not stress too much over the unexpected bumps in the road. It's all fixable -- it might just take a little (or a lot) longer with whatever solution floats your boat.
 
Go out and purchase a baby monitor

I listened to our 8 & 11 yr old kids when they were babies. Kept it just in case I ever had a use for it again.

The past two years it came in handy. The kids knew from day 1 no playing in my shop. My shop was for working.

Our -10 is now out of diapers and rolling. Soon to be flying. I kind of miss listening to her sleep.
 
dents

call those guys that do the dent elimination from cars dent doctor or something like that they do wonders and dont damage the paint so they might be able to help.

cyril
 
Fill it and move on. Be sure to rough up the area before filling - polyester body filler will work just fine. Epoxy would be tough to feather down.
 
As for the rascals, I should provide more details before we all send our kids to the work camp. These kids were in the 3-5 year old range. I have a shop in my basement where everything is at and I SHOULD have locked the door. I have little kids myself (age 3, 5, and 6) and they always have their friends over.

3, 5, & 6? Perfect age for work camp!!

Glad to hear that the damage was not major, and you are correct that you now have some ""tiny builders" to assist with the fuselage! They would probably get a big thrill out of being able to help with the multitude of repetitive tasks that will be required to get you flying.
 
Make the parents pay for every cent, plus cost of labor, then tell the kids the next time they'll be met with the business end of a Remington 870...
 
Make the parents pay for every cent, plus cost of labor, then tell the kids the next time they'll be met with the business end of a Remington 870...

If some guy ever threatened my 3 and 5 year old children with a Rem 870, a dent in his pretty little airplane will be the least of his worries.
 
Last edited:
I am a fill and move on type of guy but I am really curious how sharp that indentation is. This could be an area for crack initiation and crack propagation. Round dents are OK it's those sharp gouges that concern me. At the very least I would probably drill a hole through that deep dent to stop any crack initiation. Just my two cents.
 
If some guy ever threatened my 3 and 5 year old children with a Rem 870, a dent in his pretty little airplane will be the least of his worries.

I'll assume you've taught your kids better too! Breaking and entering is not a small crime, especially if the owner of the house is armed. If you've broken into my house you're armed/dangerous until I deem otherwise.

I was also thinking more along the lines of teenage delinquents (which abound where I live). Toddler friends of your own kids just need a lesson in respecting other people's things. I think the lesson of having a 5 year old help fix the damage may be lost. At that age their attention span is about 30 seconds. I too would just move on.... But aspiring for perfection is never a lost cause.
 
Last edited:
I'll assume you've taught your kids better too! Breaking and entering is not a small crime, especially if the owner of the house is armed. If you've broken into my house you're armed/dangerous until I deem otherwise.

My girls are only a year old. I haven't gotten around to discussing breaking and entering with them yet. Especially not breaking and entering into the neighbors house who has set a precedent of allowing them in the house.

If someone comes into my house uninvited, they will be met with force.

Sure, it's a shame the kids put a dent in the plane.
Sure, the kids should not have been in there.

My question for the OP - were the children already at his residence playing with his children?

It appears to me, the OP has allowed the children into his workshop in the past - so the kids think it's ok.

He didn't state, or I didn't see, but it seems as though, perhaps the kids were already at his house when this happened? I can't really see a 3 and 5 year old easing out of their house on their own, down to the neighbors house, where they'd let themselves into someone's shop.

Sounds more like to me, the kids were playing at his house with his children and they got into the workshop.

If this is the case, holding the parents feet to the fire to pay is fruitless, even more so the Remington 870 talk, sorta like if you invite someone into your house, you no longer have the "right" to blow his head off simply for breathing the air in your living room.
 
Agreed. Holding the parents accountable may not only be fruitless, but may make future interaction awkward and uncomfortable... especially with such young kids where a precedent has been set. But there is a lesson they could learn about boundaries and respect for others.
 
Agreed. Holding the parents accountable may not only be fruitless, but may make future interaction awkward and uncomfortable... especially with such young kids where a precedent has been set. But there is a lesson they could learn about boundaries and respect for others.

I think that's the answer..

Lessons learned by everyone and move on..

Awkward neighbors are... awkward.. ;)
 
..you can't let them off the hook so easy...

...I think to NOT bring it up at LEAST to their parents is a disservice to everyone- the kids, their parents, yourself, and another builder whose hangar they want to go into next time. They might feel that the distruction is no real big deal and would do it to your neighbor that might also be building a plane..

I would be thankful as a parent if I was told that my kids had done the damage- this would at least give me the opportunity to correct the problem. You don't need to call the police, but if their parents are even somewhat responsible, they would be grateful that this the only thing that you did, and that you brought it to their attention, understanding that a more severe response was warranted but not chosen.
 
UPDATE WITH PICTURES....

Thanks for all the replies guys.
First of all, I have dealt with the situation by talking to the kids and their parents. I did not blow a fuse. I tactfully spoke to them about what was done, how much those parts cost and the amount of work that goes into them. Not once did I raise my voice or get mad. I don't want the kids to think they can't come into my shop when I'm there or that airplane builders are creeps. It was not done intentionally so I needed to act accordingly. Everyone understood what happened and I am sure it won't happen again. I let the kids watch me fix the dent (next thing you know the plane will be covered in microballons and epoxy :eek:). Anyway, I am satisfied with the outcome, the kids are not afraid of me or airplanes and the parents and I remain friends.
Finally, here are some pictures of the fix. It is perfectly flat even though the pictures don't necessarily show it. Once primer is on this...you will never know it existed. I sanded the dent and crease with 80 grit (lightly). I then filled it with microballons and epoxy and sanded it down with 180, 220, 320 and finally 400 grit.

DSC_0005-3.jpg

DSC_0010-2.jpg

DSC_0008-1.jpg

DSC_0009-1.jpg


Being a perfectionist, this was a real learning experience for me and I felt that I grew as a person and in my builders skills. I learned patience and forgiveness as well as accepting imperfection and the end result is that I am better for it. As a builder I learned that I am not afraid of dents because now I have the skills to fix them.
Now its time to move on and get this thing done...:D
 
Agreed.

aarvig;587169Now its time to move on and get this thing done...:D[/QUOTE said:
This is a great outcome!...Everyone learned a lesson too:)....and no one's mad at the other!

Best,
 
Back
Top