What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Correct usage of Oxygen

brian257

Well Known Member
Can anyone tell me when using an Oxysaver type canula if you are supposed to breath out of your nose or out of your mouth, or does it not matter.
 
Can anyone tell me when using an Oxysaver type canula if you are supposed to breath out of your nose or out of your mouth, or does it not matter.

The Oxysaver is designed to "cutoff" while exhaling so I believe you would be better off exhaling through the nose.
At least, that's the way WE do it.
 
Last edited:
That is what I was assuming, but nowhere that I look can I find any instructions that say one way or the other.
 
Nose

The Oxysaver is designed to "cutoff" while exhaling so I believe you would be better off exhaling through the nose.

More than that - I think you have to exhale through your nose to get the savings benefits...

From one of the sales descriptions -

This soft nasal cannula captures 18mL of your exhaled air in a dedicated reservoir and replaces/enriches it with O2 during the exhalation process. When you inhale, the reservoir diaphragm collapses, providing oxygen-rich air to the deepest part of your lungs.

It won't capture anything if you breathe out through your mouth...:)


And a more scientific explanation -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1020556/?page=1
 
Last edited:
Check out the Mountain High System

If you really want to save O2, and be sure that you are getting exactly the proper O2 delivery all the time, you should check out the Mountain High electronic O2 delivery system.

Most all of us in gliders are using this system nowadays.
 
Actually, if you really, really want to know you are getting enough oxygen use a pulse oximeter!
 
Yes, get a pulse oxymeter.
Yes, exhale thru your nose. The little moustache or pendent captures and re-uses O2 that was in your nose or throat (so it didn't get used).
 
The little moustache or pendent captures and re-uses O2 that was in your nose or throat (so it didn't get used).

Bob,

Not sure I understand how this part works. Can you explain how the thing captures oxygen to be re-released later? I am under the impression that the exhale essentially closes off the flow of oxygen from the tank/line, basically like a check valve. That would mean that any oxygen downstream of the check valve (i.e., downstream of the check valve in your nose/throat) would go out with your exhale.

Greg
 
Anyone using one of these portable O2 concentrators?

http://www.inogenaviator.com/shop.html

Yes, I have used them, and they work very well. You use O2 more often becaue you never have to worry about refilling them. Why don't I have one? Two reasons:

1) You need one for each person on board. Great if you always fly solo, but expensive if you have a passenger.

2) every time I run the numbers on cost, it is just very hard to justify when you add up the price of a bottled system and keeping your own big bottle to fill it, I just can't justify the concentrator.


I'd really like one for the RV-3, but there is no room in the cockpit for the device - it fits in the baggage area, but then you can't monitor or control it.

Paul
 
If I may ask and as long as O2 is the topic does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration. Thanks, Mark C.
 
Hard to say as there are many variables. While not required legally, you may find that you benefit from it (feel better) considering the actual density altitude, your age and general health, duration of flight, night/day etc.

You may want to get yourself one of those cheap oxygen saturation measuring tools and see where it reads for you under normal conditions on the ground, then in the air at altitude and then again with a borrowed O2 system to compare.

Just my thoughts. No expert here!

Bevan
 
Hard to say as there are many variables. While not required legally, you may find that you benefit from it (feel better) considering the actual density altitude, your age and general health, duration of flight, night/day etc.


Bevan

The physiology of oxygen in the body (having to cross membranes) is such that it depends on (partial) pressure, not density. e.g., pressure altitude, not density altitude, is what is important.

Other question: When you exhale, the first part fills a small 'bag' inside the mustache; the remainder is exhausted to the air. When you next breathe in, you use the air from the bag first. Since this air was in the nose and throat, it is 'pure', e.g., uncontaminated by CO2 and enriched by O2.
 
One time.....at band camp.....I crossed the Sierras, at night. 11,500 without O2. never again. although I don't hold an IFR ticket, I'm glad I had 30 hrs and 10 IMC training towards one, that night. It was quite disturbing watching the horizon disappear, and (appear) to get darker with altitude and maybe hypoxia, I was monitoring and was at 92% O2 will be in my plane.
 
does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration.

It's a personal choice and a safety choice. Depending on your health and actual flying conditions it may or may not be right for you.

If you have not read or refreshed yourself with IMSAFE, it's a good place to start.

Another thing to consider is "planning to fly at 8,000ft" vs "where you actually fly". I am reminded of a thread on this subject from a good friend: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=743657&postcount=1

At the very least, it's a good idea to have a pulse oximeter ...

 
At the very least, it's a good idea to have a pulse oximeter ...

I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?
 
How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying? What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower? Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

There a lots of applicable information on the internet (as long as you use reputable sources). Rather than duplicate that information here and risk it getting stale, you can do an internet search for "blood oxygen saturation level" and read what has been written by the Mayo Clinic, WebMD, etc.

tl;dr - "Normal pulse oximeter readings usually range from 95 to 100 percent. Values under 90 percent are considered low."
 
If I may ask and as long as O2 is the topic does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration. Thanks, Mark C.

I always use O2 at 8000' and up. I found that even as low as 8000' I was not as tired after the flight when on O2.

Just finished a west trip out of Virginia to Phoenix and Fort Collins with a lot of time at 14,000'. Two people and I used half of the Mountain High AL-415 bottle.

At the Airpark we have a shared O2 charging station. Three of use each provide a $40 O2 bottle from the local gas shop every other year or so. The three bottles are in a daisy chain so we always charge from the lowest bottle first. This is about as close to free air as you will get.

Carl
 
I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?

I agree with others comments and you are on the right track mentioning health issues and age as considerations.

This is a complex topic - the answer is that it varies from person to person. For most people in good health an oxygen saturation of 90-91% or more is adequate. The ability of the blood to deliver oxygen to tissue falls off very rapidly below this saturation level, due to the complex relationship of oxygen concentration (pO2) to saturation (% as measured by saturation monitor). Depending on individual factors, saturation can fall rapidly below the 90% range as ambient oxygen levels drop further (i.e. higher altitude). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen–hemoglobin_dissociation_curve).

Note that the curve is affected by many individual factors and that saturation can be much lower at a given pO2 if someone has lung disease or other diseases that impact the ability of the body to use oxygen.

If you can get access to an altitude chamber it's helpful to be able to recognize your own symptoms of hypoxia. I'm in good health but my saturation drops below 90% around 9000 feet, so I put on O2 above that altitude. Way below the 12,500 rule...
 
I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?
I seriously doubt there's any one number/table that will work 100% of the time. My own numbers change over time and with how I'm feeling, etc. And what is "good?"

Speaking to those of you who have not been at altitude and used supplemental O2, you need to try it and experiment a little. More O2 means more brain power (unfortunately, limited by your seal level brainpower of course).

On a cross country, I'll use a minimum to keep me clear headed and what I feel is out of headache zone. I want to be functional but not waste all my O2. When it comes time for dealing with crowded airspace, approaches, etc. I'll turn it up. How much? Enough to make my brain work better. And I can almost always feel the difference as I increase flow. Point being, it's not black and white and each situation differs somewhat. The O2 sat meter just gets you in the ballpark.
 
Your goal is 91% or better.
Depending on many variables as mentioned above, O2 may be needed at rather modest altitudes or possibly high.
Get a cheap oximeter and under various conditions learn at what altitude(s) your levels drop to 91%.
 
.................On a cross country, I'll use a minimum to keep me clear headed and what I feel is out of headache zone. I want to be functional but not waste all my O2. When it comes time for dealing with crowded airspace, approaches, etc. I'll turn it up. How much? Enough to make my brain work better. And I can almost always feel the difference as I increase flow. Point being, it's not black and white and each situation differs somewhat. The O2 sat meter just gets you in the ballpark.

My concern about this approach is how are you measuring your "brain power". You can NOT depend on your own perceptions of how well you are doing.

Low Oxygen Saturation in the blood produces a feeling of "euphoria", and it is nearly impossible for someone who is hypoxic to properly assess themselves. That's why a pulse oximeter is so important. If you stay above 90%, you will be safe.
 
My concern about this approach is how are you measuring your "brain power". You can NOT depend on your own perceptions of how well you are doing.

Low Oxygen Saturation in the blood produces a feeling of "euphoria", and it is nearly impossible for someone who is hypoxic to properly assess themselves. That's why a pulse oximeter is so important. If you stay above 90%, you will be safe.

Couldn't agree more. I took part in the high altitude chamber in college and was shocked at how insidious and scary the effect was. Even as low as 12,000, it took about an hour, but at the end of that hour, I thought Bill Clinton was legitimately a Canadian Prime minister.

Oximeter and oxygen above 8 for sure.
 
Sorry for derailing the topic.

I was always told that you can exhale through the cannulas, but the oximeter is definitely the way to go to confirm it.
 
If you really want to save O2, and be sure that you are getting exactly the proper O2 delivery all the time, you should check out the Mountain High electronic O2 delivery system.

Most all of us in gliders are using this system nowadays.

I have it and love it. I have timed it and can last me for more than 22 hours around 14-15K (one person) when it is set to dispense Oxygen at 10K. It last for more than 11 hours when flying two people.
 
I agree with others regarding an oximeter. I always have it available & will usually attach it when on AP cruise, just to establish a baseline monitor.
 
Trust but verify! Pulse oximeters are a useful check. If you are a lowlander or fly at night use O2 at a lower altitude than 12000 ft. Same goes for if you smoke (rather than fume) have a cold, or any lung or heart problems.
The FAA has a O2 chamber that goes around the USA, will be in Reno, NV next week. Everyone has a different O2 saturation threshold....some can tolerate 85% others need 92%. We also all react differently and it is good to know when you are not performing well!
That said I really like flying at 12-17000 ft. Faster ground speed, less fuel and less traffic. Have fun and stay safe.
 
20 years ago, I use to fly solo 12K and below all the time. My wife would complain of a headache on anything greater than 9k, so I purchased an oxygen system "for my wife". What I immediately notice was my wife no longer complained of headaches and I didn't feel so tired and beat up after a couple 2-3 hour hops on cross country flights. No facts to support, but the older we get the more I think O2 is needed, especially age mid 40s and above. As mentioned above, you are the least qualified person to determine if you are suffering hypoxia symptoms without altitude chamber training or a pulse meter. As they say, I "never leave home without it". Dan from Reno
 
Flew for the first 200 hours without O2. Wife has a SPO2 monitor, and we would routinely drop below 90 on flights above 10k. Never got a headache but would feel tired for the rest of the day. Keep in mind, our house is at 4,800 feet, and we hike and ski in the Sierras at 8-12k.

Installed a tank from AEROX with the oxysaver cannulas. Titrate the flow rate to keep saturation above 92%. 95% and above is better (unless you have COPD, then consult your doctor!!). The pulse oximeters are sold on Amazon for $20. There is no reason not to spot check in flight. One is clipped on the shoulder harness of our plane at all times.

Now, when we arrive at our destination, we feel much better. Dan Ross, and a few others told me to use O2 a while ago. Glad I finally got it installed.

By the way, the the oxysaver cannulas work By acting as a resivor. The O2 flows at a constant rate (unless you are using a pulse demand system). The resivor stores the oxygen dispensed from the tank during exhalation, which would be wasted with a simple cannula. Upon inhalation, you breathe the stored oxygen. According to AEROX, you can get he same O2 intake using 1/4th the flow.
 
I agree

I agree with Dan and some of the others. Everyone reacts differently and has different thresh holds. I agree the best way to know is get yourself tested. My only addition is that I have two three good friends that are pulmonary specialist and have asked this question of all of them to get differing views.
To a person all of them told me if they have a patient in care they don't like to see them off of O2 tell their level is above 92-93% and can hold that on their own. I would think from this that maybe that 90% level may even be a few points low in order to stay sharp when up high. Thanks for the tip about the Alt. camber I will have to see when it is going to be in my area as I to like to go high and am not getting any younger. Yours as always, R.E.A. III #80888
 
That is correct. 90 was too low for us, effects were being tired at our destination. I did not mean to imply that 90 was ok. In the hospital, we place just about everyone on oxygen unless they are 92% or higher. That is for people lying in bed watching TV, not trying to multitask at 200 mph in the air!
 
I know myself pretty well when it comes to O2. "Hello, my name is Scott and I'm addicted to O2." Tanya laughs at me sometimes, but on a cross country any significant time for me above about 8k' and I'm sucking the juice. I just feel so much better on the other side. 10k', forgeddaboudit, max flow please. 11k' I'll start to get foggy after a half hour, so you just won't find me there without it. We transfill our own, so I feel like it is nearly free. Our weapon of choice is Mountain High pulse-ox.
 
Back
Top