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PIREP on Whirlwind "new" 330 series C/S propeller series

Frogman208

Active Member
Hey Guys,

Wanted to get an 'initial' PIREP out for the 'new' Whirlwind 330 series C/S propeller that I've been testing. For background, I've had a Hartzell BA 7495S 2-blade (pre-7497 and post 7666 blade) and MT MTV-12b 3-blade propellers all within the last year and testing in San Diego. My first Condition Inspection will be in May and I'll have over 200hrs on the RV-7, so I do fly a lot. My constant issue has been finding the perfect propeller/engine combination that would allow me to use the full capability of the 200hp, angle valve IO-360 A1A non-counterweight crack without RPM restrictions. The non-counterweight cranks are notorious for harmonic vibrations that eventually become evident with grease leaking thru propeller hubs even if your adhering to RPM restrictions. I only mention Hartzell and MT (both good propellers) because I've had both on my RV prior to the 330 series. I'm still collecting data via Savvy Analysis (I download every flight currently around 550 flights) and comparing flight runs in the vertical and top speeds. Initial impressions of the Whirlwind 330 series is exactly what I've been looking for. I've increased climb (even above 3-bladed MT) and 'surprising' to me, I've regained the 5-7knot top end speed I lost going from a 2-blade to a 3-blade. My top end is making Vans marketed top speeds with a 3-blade propeller:) I've ran multiple GPS runs and its consistent so I'm really impressed and confused since 3 blade is suppose to be slower. I've done full-power climbs from Borrego, CA (sea-level) up to 9,500 MSL on auto-pilot with an average climb of 2000+ fpm till level off. The 330 series is stunningly smooth across the power range. My new favorite is full throttle and 2100 RPM cruise (over-square) at mid-range altitude I can pull 165kt TAS sipping gas and cant even hear the engine. I'm running LOP, ROP and max allowable over-square operations and truly amazed. I've had the 330 series dyno balanced at 2400 RPM but its extremely smooth across all RPM's.
For those with non-counterweight cranks (Lycoming's, Titans, etc), please give Hunter a call at Whirlwind before you decide on a propeller. What makes the 330 series able to withstand the non-counterweight harmonics is the beefed up Hub design. If you want to compare capability and price, you need to compare the Whirlwind 330 series with the Hartzell composite propeller and MT MTV-9 against the Whirlwind 330 series.
Finally, I wanted to mention the 330 series can be configured for either 2-blade or 3-blade configuration. In simple terms, the 330 series is basically a beefed up 300 series Hub and 72HRT blades (best of both worlds). I'll post more data results as I fly since San Diego weather is pretty stable year round, air temps allow for comparative testing year round.
**For those with keen eyes, I'm not making 80% at 10K DA, I'm still adjusting the Dynon power setting for my engine. I'm actually making approx. 75-76% at 10K. Kevin or Dan will definitely catch that. Also, the spinner has not been painted yet so it is just primer paint.
 

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I’ve recently been testing a variety of props as well, and absolutely love the -300 WW!

In answer to your amazement that you aren’t losing speed when going from two blades to three as we traditionally expect, I chalk it up to the fact that blade aerodynamics have improved considerably since the older Hartzell blades were first laid out - state of the art has advanced. So you get the best of both worlds with the modern blades on a three-blade hub - no loss of speed, and better climb....what’s not to like?!

Paul
 
Thanks Matt and Paul,

I'll be the first to acknowledge I'm an absolute amateur in both build and flying experimental and aircraft in general but I'm a big believer in knowing your equipment inside and out. In my field of the military if you didn't know your diving, jumping or shooting gear inside and out (and limitations) it could cost you your life. I've probably over done my research and testing with the various propellers and they all have their own benefits but I choose Whirlwind because I believe in technology and advancements in efficiencies (just like Paul said). Not to say other manufacturers are not doing the same but Whirlwind has a passion for it. They listen to the customer base and adapt. The 300 series is a great propeller for 80% of the RV engines. The new 330 series covers the last 20% for those with non-counterweights, electric ignitions and pumped up HP's. Its not Whirlwinds (330 series) or MT (MTV-12) issue if you use those propellers for your 200+hp, EI engine and start pushing grease out your hub as they are not designed for your engine, the 330 series is.
Couple points I forgot to mention is the 330 series can be 2 or 3 blade configured AND counter-weighted for those aerobatic inclined individuals. How I understand it from Whirlwind is the 300 and 330 series will be individually (modular) configurable to your specific needs but please ask first as I'm not affiliated with Whirlwind. I just really like the propeller and asking a lot of questions about their operations and business model.
 
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How I understand it from Whirlwind is the 300 and 330 series will be individually (modular) configurable to your specific needs but please ask first as I'm not affiliated with Whirlwind. I just really like the propeller and asking a lot of questions about their operations and business model.

This is important.
I was set to order one prop, but after talking to WW and explaining what my typical day of flying was like, they recommended the 74HRT. WW has many options, are really good about recommending a prop that will suit your needs.
 
Sounds like the 330 is designed to replace the HRT series? I've been eyeing up the 2 blade 72HRT with aerobatic counter-weighted blades. I don't see the 330 on their website yet. Any word on when that's happening? This prop has me paying close attention.
 
Sounds like the 330 is designed to replace the HRT series? I've been eyeing up the 2 blade 72HRT with aerobatic counter-weighted blades. I don't see the 330 on their website yet. Any word on when that's happening? This prop has me paying close attention.
Hey David, I can't speak for Whirlwind but I believe the 300 and 330 series may be the future production lines since the 300/330 series Hubs are produced at Whirlwind instead of using the McCauley Hubs from other production lines. My 330 series uses the 72HRT blades and Whirlwind produced hub. The hub and blades are a work of art and I've seen how they produced the Hub/blades that can be modularly configured for individual needs. Maybe Whirlwind will see this thread and give an update. I don't like speaking for a manufacturer or their business model. I just like the product.
 
What is the Whirl Wind 330 series?

Scott, I'm glad you like the propeller so much. To clear up what the 330 series is I'll quickly explain what we had been producing for many years and how we arrived at the 300 series.
1995 is when we started making composite constant speed propellers. Up until recently these propellers (including the HRT and 200RV series) used the thread-less McCauley based hub.
To save structural weight for less aggressive engines, we started from scratch and designed a smaller, lighter 300 series hub
ACtC-3dMWBy6vHzzQVQaay5YdtCTOsASftxFIDjXhi-HLQ-J7p0AyywxR0c8fKY-z2GZ0MBb7VnoiuqcFeDhASlBLGA38RdQ_YFlBQNOpIo-GRfy-dKv8ZbCb2EJP7Tsnvwd-9pXai1VgbvAtWL3mXFLV0K6=w500
ACtC-3ceN0b2gSLfIH2ZY7UOdxkmv9vANnicjOBIqHeeDxemb9lePL4sxBczhRWDWQXLEaJDLCUIoywNIb5IMNNNQbG7J9iu2uQUMM2pMA7g6sJs-VzHhm_guxvK7Id2UUH-Kmn3ymFBaoQzretFVIQOn-Ka=w450

Now, using a beefed-up design of the 300 series, the new 330 series replaces the legacy McCauley hub platform while saving several pounds of weight. Example of application is 72” diameter, 2 blade 330-2B/72H-72 (same style and performance as the legacy HRT 72 blades) for the (I)O-360. Or for the aggressive engines such as non-counterweighted IO-370/375’s or angle valve IO-360s, we put those same blades in a 330 3-bladed hub making the diameter 73” (330-3B/72H-73). The blades ARE NOT compatible between the McCauley hubs and the 330 hubs.
ACtC-3duR7e7pXMTUlHBx4Hi4FtKfLKRAteDumJvt3znGF2SCPObDg0eY0_lIGs3ka8ebq2tiUXQmgwiCebct_zAM5ynO5Aogh_R9s3NGLEIC3i0hwwD8W6YJAKsC0oH4NeyJYApbUlr_DAlqgCmNyUS9gus=w500

The website is undergoing updates, so call in or email for the most up-to date info.
Although our legacy propellers are no longer in production, we will continue to support them for parts and service.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong.

The 2 blade up sticks out from the spinner, and the 3 blade hubs stay inside.....
 
@Whirlwind Propellers. Help us out here. My build and others will probably fall into a product black hole. The new 300 series stated performance looks great. It will probably be too lightweight for many four cylinder tandem seat aircraft even after moving as much other equipment forward as possible. For the four cylinder HC and/or stroker crowd in the 210 HP range, there appears to be a product hole between 300 series and HRTs. If you can share any insight here, it would be appreciated by many. Thanks.
 
@Whirlwind Propellers. Help us out here. My build and others will probably fall into a product black hole. The new 300 series stated performance looks great. It will probably be too lightweight for many four cylinder tandem seat aircraft even after moving as much other equipment forward as possible. For the four cylinder HC and/or stroker crowd in the 210 HP range, there appears to be a product hole between 300 series and HRTs. If you can share any insight here, it would be appreciated by many. Thanks.

Just FYI - the -300 WW I have on my RV-8 right now (O-360-A1A) with aft-mounted battery) is a perfect combination - rememebr that the original design engine for the RV-8 was the O-320, so everything has moved in the direction of nose-heaviness since then. A lighter prop really makes things feel better!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong.

The 2 blade up sticks out from the spinner, and the 3 blade hubs stay inside.....

No, sorry, the photos attached were from the old style spinners. The new spinners come in a 13" or 14" diameter. Both sizes will completely enclose the ferrule of the 330-2B.
The 330-3B will slightly show the ferrules with a 13" spinner, but the 14" will enclose the ferrules for the 3-blade.

edit: replaced the picture in the other post and added spinner pic here

ACtC-3d6lpj7fRZ93WQ8GrUJl-DPuacOmmsm49RX1fkh1bdf0p7Q1Gp_r0_diIg3-QcIQK2K2V417kFQLxwWJ5CGLjLAjctI64VjhxpN7b3uufrHiXPyb48Wn0-AkZrHeVUEM7ujThhGGDs4P_i3ealoMHyu=w500
 
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@Whirlwind Propellers. Help us out here. My build and others will probably fall into a product black hole. The new 300 series stated performance looks great. It will probably be too lightweight for many four cylinder tandem seat aircraft even after moving as much other equipment forward as possible. For the four cylinder HC and/or stroker crowd in the 210 HP range, there appears to be a product hole between 300 series and HRTs. If you can share any insight here, it would be appreciated by many. Thanks.

The 330-3B 73" propeller is well suited for that application on engines with or without counterweighted crankshafts. The 330-2B 72" propeller is also a good option offering slightly faster top speed and slightly lower takeoff/climb performance (2-blade limited to engines with counterweighted crankshafts).

**Edit: this was in response to Freemasm asking about the aggressive engines in range of 210hp (angle valve -360's and IO-370/375's). If you have a parallel valve IO-360 with stock compression for example you do not need a counterweighted crankshaft to run our 2-blade propeller. Updates are still being made, but all the recommended engine combinations will be listed for each propeller on the website: whirlwindaviation.com
 
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The 330-3B 73" propeller is well suited for that application on engines with or without counterweighted crankshafts. The 330-2B 72" propeller is also a good option offering slightly faster top speed and slightly lower takeoff/climb performance (2-blade limited to engines with counterweighted crankshafts).

Still probably won't work from a W&B standpoint for Rocket Lites (four banger Rockets). Hopefully I'll be surprised.
 
Freemasm,

Are you looking for more weight up front or less? My 330-3B 73" weighted in at 52lbs with spinner. Based on what I read, your needing more weight up front not less but I could be getting that backwards. I'm pretty sure the 330-2B weights less just based on number of blades. Not sure I helped you or just confused you more but I knew the 330 @52lbs would work for my W/B since I began with a 56lb Hartzell.
 
Freemasm,

Are you looking for more weight up front or less? My 330-3B 73" weighted in at 52lbs with spinner. Based on what I read, your needing more weight up front not less but I could be getting that backwards. I'm pretty sure the 330-2B weights less just based on number of blades. Not sure I helped you or just confused you more but I knew the 330 @52lbs would work for my W/B since I began with a 56lb Hartzell.

More but of course won't know until it's almost completely done. Published weight for a 300-3B/A-72 is 36#s. That's a big delta at that station. There is no 330xxx on the WW website. This may be teh root of any confusion.

I like the performance #s quoted and like it when new(er) players can impact a market. Obviously I want the best application possible.

(A different) Scott
 
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More but of course won't know until it's almost completely done. Published weight for a 300-3B/A-72 is 36#s. That's a big delta at that station. There is no 330xxx on the WW website. This may be teh root of any confusion.

I like the performance #s quoted and like it when new(er) players can impact a market. Obviously I want the best application possible.

(A different) Scott

Yep you are right, the 300 series weights 36Lbs but I can confirm the 330 series both 2 and 3 blades weigh in around 46-52Lbs due to hub design and thicker blades (I dont know the weight of the 2 blade but its around the 46's lb range). I know Whirlwind is working on the website so hopefully when that is up it will help answer your questions. I know the 330 series was purposely developed for your power range. I absolutely love the 330 series and keep pushing the envelope more and more but still within Lycoming recommended power settings.
 
330-2B 72H-72" weighs 40 lb standard ($12,400) and 44 lb counterweighted ($13,000)
330-3B 72H-73" weighs 53 lb standard ($14,355) and 60 lb counterweighted ($15,255)

website updates in progress. Prices subject to change.
 
330-2B 72H-72" weighs 40 lb standard ($12,400) and 44 lb counterweighted ($13,000)
330-3B 72H-73" weighs 53 lb standard ($14,355) and 60 lb counterweighted ($15,255)

website updates in progress. Prices subject to change.

I understand "counterweighted" in this post to mean counterweighted prop blades for aerobatic operation.

Counterweighted (or dampened) crankshafts are a different thing altogether, yet also very important to propellors.

If I'm wrong, please let me know
 
No, sorry, the photos attached were from the old style spinners. The new spinners come in a 13" or 14" diameter. Both sizes will completely enclose the ferrule of the 330-2B.
The 330-3B will slightly show the ferrules with a 13" spinner, but the 14" will enclose the ferrules for the 3-blade.

edit: replaced the picture in the other post and added spinner pic here

ACtC-3d6lpj7fRZ93WQ8GrUJl-DPuacOmmsm49RX1fkh1bdf0p7Q1Gp_r0_diIg3-QcIQK2K2V417kFQLxwWJ5CGLjLAjctI64VjhxpN7b3uufrHiXPyb48Wn0-AkZrHeVUEM7ujThhGGDs4P_i3ealoMHyu=w500



Now I’m confused. How can I tell which hub I have? It’s not listed on my invoice.
Also, do I have the “old style” spinner? Will one of the pointier new style spinners work with my hub?



812711EC-76F0-4FFA-949E-181B53EF52AA.jpeg

E09E5426-FAC9-4DC7-AF6A-2269961C9719.jpeg
 
I understand "counterweighted" in this post to mean counterweighted prop blades for aerobatic operation.

Counterweighted (or dampened) crankshafts are a different thing altogether, yet also very important to propellors.

If I'm wrong, please let me know

Yes, it can be confusing: a counterweighted propeller has centrifugal weights to prevent overspeed during inverted aerobatics (lapse in oil pressure)

A counterweighted crankshaft reduces torque loads on the engine crankshaft at each cylinder's ignition stroke.
 
Now I’m confused. How can I tell which hub I have? It’s not listed on my invoice.
Also, do I have the “old style” spinner? Will one of the pointier new style spinners work with my hub?

Feel free to call in or email us pictures to get some clarification on what you currently have. The new spinners are only for the new 330 hub. If you placed your order after Jan 1, 2021 you probably have a 330 hub.
 
Spacer/Prop extension

Does anyone know if the 3-blade 330 prop requires a 2.25" spacer/prop extension with a stock Vans RV-8 cowl?
 
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