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Tail troubles?!

BruceMe

Well Known Member
My older '96 RV-6 has a tail that is tiny. Looks like maybe it came from an RV-4 without counter-weight. I found a replacement tail that was _WAY_ bigger and didn't fit the trim (maybe RV-9?) and I was worried the tail might hit it too. So I found one that was "smaller" (not much) which I hope will fit... but not 100%. I've heard anecdotes about this, but nothing firm.

Does anyone know the empennage history of the RV-6?
 
My older '96 RV-6 has a tail that is tiny. Looks like maybe it came from an RV-4 without counter-weight. I found a replacement tail that was _WAY_ bigger and didn't fit the trim (maybe RV-9?) and I was worried the tail might hit it too. So I found one that was "smaller" (not much) which I hope will fit... but not 100%. I've heard anecdotes about this, but nothing firm.

Does anyone know the empennage history of the RV-6?

There have been two "official" vertical tails/rudders for the -6/6A that I am aware of. The first is the shorter, non-counterweighted flavor. The second adds a small counterweight and is essentially the RV-8 vertical/rudder.

I've seen one -6 with an RV-7 style fin/rudder which has a larger counterweight than the -8 fin and a riveted trailing edge on the rudder vs. the previous bent trailing edge. I don't think the factory ever shipped them as part of a -6 though and was instead of a builder-produced innovation.

My -6A has been mistaken for a -7A because as one of the later -6 kits shipped I got the -8 style fin/rudder. The most foolproof way to tell the difference is by looking at the bottom fuselage at about the position of the wing leading edges. -7/7As will be flat here while -6/6As will have an angled skin that matches the dihedral of the wings.
 
RV-6

One must consider that adding more weight on the tail can affect your CG. Adding several pounds back there can make your tail 20lbs heavier in your CG calcs and affect how baggage....ect you can carry.
If you have a CS prop out front then it may help you..........

I have thought about this on my RV-6 and opted for the normal rudder and VS. My first RV-6 flew hands off with the normal tail and CG was about perfect with a CS prop and 180hp. I heard people say that the bigger tail gives a more solid feel to yawwing but that was about it.

I think Vans put the bigger tails on the 7 and 8 for help with spin recovery....
 
One must consider that adding more weight on the tail can affect your CG. Adding several pounds back there can make your tail 20lbs heavier in your CG calcs and affect how baggage....ect you can carry.
If you have a CS prop out front then it may help you..........

I agree
My RV-6A has the later RV-8 vertical stab. and rudder out of convenience when I was rebuilding it from a salvage airplane. C.G. is fine with my fixed pitch metal prop. With that vertical tail, I would not install a wood or composite fixed pitch prop because of the negative effect it would have on baggage utility

I think Vans put the bigger tails on the 7 and 8 for help with spin recovery....
The RV-7 is the only model that has ever had a design change to improve spin recovery. The RV-8 has the same tail today as it had when it was introduced.
 
Tail group

I'm pretty sure its the same tail as on the Harmon rocket not sure what your concern is with performance.I have small tail on my 6 with 200hp angle valve and Hartzell CS with 3" spacer.
Bob
 
How do I build an origonal non-counter balanced tail?

So this plane flipped over and remarkably, the vertical and rudder only got minor damage at the tip. I could in theory salvage/fix the vertical I have.

Instead I opted to replace it. The trouble is that nobody has the non-counter weighted tail anymore. I've looked and looked _AND_ I tried to order parts from Vans to repair the one I have... I got the bigger RV-8 parts. So now I'm at a loss, I can easily get the raw stock and rebuild the tail I have using the plans with the airplane or try to make the bigger RV-8 tail fit.

btw, I too want the smaller tail, cause it works, looks right and fits.

Any advice?
 
Lots of -7s flying with the larger tail and light weight, FP, prop but most install a weighted prop plate from Saber to help keep CG where they want it and allow sufficient baggage.

I plan to install either the 15 or 20 lb plate, as needed.
 
So this plane flipped over and remarkably, the vertical and rudder only got minor damage at the tip. I could in theory salvage/fix the vertical I have.

Instead I opted to replace it. The trouble is that nobody has the non-counter weighted tail anymore. I've looked and looked _AND_ I tried to order parts from Vans to repair the one I have... I got the bigger RV-8 parts. So now I'm at a loss, I can easily get the raw stock and rebuild the tail I have using the plans with the airplane or try to make the bigger RV-8 tail fit.

btw, I too want the smaller tail, cause it works, looks right and fits.

Any advice?

Could still build one from plans? I'm pretty sure the -6 plans have all the dimensions and such that you'd need. You'd need access to a brake I think but beyond that it seems pretty straightforward, if labor intensive.
 
Lots of -7s flying with the larger tail and light weight, FP, prop but most install a weighted prop plate from Saber to help keep CG where they want it and allow sufficient baggage.

I plan to install either the 15 or 20 lb plate, as needed.

Mine has it already with the smaller vertical
 
Could still build one from plans? I'm pretty sure the -6 plans have all the dimensions and such that you'd need. You'd need access to a brake I think but beyond that it seems pretty straightforward, if labor intensive.

I can make a brake in 20 minutes with a 2x4 and few spare door hinges. That's easy. I think I'll head to airparts and get some aluminum.

Also the shop I'm using has a nice 4' bender/brake for the spar.
 
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Van's still sells all the parts for the -6 tail, they just don't advertise a tail kit. You can still find the parts on the list.
 
I have original -6A VS only ...

...(snipped) The trouble is that nobody has the non-counter weighted tail anymore. I've looked and looked _AND_ I tried to order parts from Vans to repair the one I have... I got the bigger RV-8 parts. So now I'm at a loss, I can easily get the raw stock and rebuild the tail I have using the plans with the airplane or try to make the bigger RV-8 tail fit.

btw, I too want the smaller tail, cause it works, looks right and fits.
...

I replaced the 'classic tail' (i.e. "small") with the -8 VS/Rudder set because the rudder was not included in the project kit (RV-6A QB). Building the original rudder required a bunch of line items, and the -8 VS/Rudder set was a single line item. Convenience order ...

Part of the aft weight penalty is the counter balance lead wt, think it's 20 oz. Another factor is the 0.020 skin on the rudder, and also the size increase.

With the O-360 and FP Sensenich prop the tail wt is a consideration but baggage wt is not the main concern - the Vans recommended gross with two occupants is 1650 lbs and so a couple of "me" (235) and some fuel is already there. [Yes, I've seen POH's with 1800 and even 2000 lbs gross limits.]

Yes, I still have the classic VS in the attic ... and it's QB (factory built). If anyone is interested. You'll still need a 'classic, non-counter balanced rudder'.
 
With the O-360 and FP Sensenich prop the tail wt is a consideration but baggage wt is not the main concern - the Vans recommended gross with two occupants is 1650 lbs and so a couple of "me" (235) and some fuel is already there. [Yes, I've seen POH's with 1800 and even 2000 lbs gross limits.]

I agree that with two 235 lb'ers in the seats the impact of the heavier tail doesn't matter.
With a couple of 170 lb'ers in the seats the impact on baggage capability is the major concern.
 
Should have written more ...

I agree that with two 235 lb'ers in the seats the impact of the heavier tail doesn't matter.
With a couple of 170 lb'ers in the seats the impact on baggage capability is the major concern.

With my two 235 pounders there is no weight in the baggage area, worth mentioning. It's all occupants and fuel, to the max gross wt. Scott - will PM you a couple of W&B questions especially on Loading/Unloading & Planing/De-Planing sequences. Or new thread.
thanks
 
Yes, I still have the classic VS in the attic ... and it's QB (factory built). If anyone is interested. You'll still need a 'classic, non-counter balanced rudder'.

I think I would take advantage of this offer if I was looking to rebuild the older tail.

I built my -6 with the -8 tail and never looked back. Flies great and is pretty fast for a O-360 with a fixed pitch Sensenich.

Just my opinion.
 
6 with 7 tail

I built my 6 with the 7 tail, because that is what was available to me at the time ( Time is money & worth more:p)

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Part numbers for 6/6A VS and Rudder

Bruce, having built a few 6 & 7 replacement rudders for other folks I keep a current part's list with catalog numbers in an *xls sheet. I can provide you with both VS and Rudder part numbers, including skins if you decide to undertake a rebuild.
 
Hello Bruce,
A complete noob here. I hope all will forgive my ignorance in my first post.
I just acquired a partially built -6 I'm pretty sure it has the old style Vertical fin the purchase also included a -7 Vertical fin. Problem is neither one has has a rudder with it or the glass top cap of the vertical.
It is skinned, has never been mounted and the workmanship looks pretty good.
If you would be interested I would be willing to buy/trade your -8 Vert/rudd for my old style -6 vert. Then you would only have to build a rudder. :)
 
All,

I did a trial fit on the -7/8 style vertical/rudder. It fits the fairing nicely. Now my only misgiving is that it will weigh more and could throw off CG some as it is a significantly heavier counter-balanced rudder. I'm normally not _THIS_ concerned with W&B except, I went lithium on the heavy lead battery in the nose (25# difference) and I've removed the vacuum system and several other "farmer" modifications all in the nose. I suspect I have dramatically moved CG aft. I'm going to press on and I had already planned on re-weighing the plane. We'll see how it goes from there. If it's too far aft, it's likely only under certain loadings. If that's the case, I'll build an older non-weighted rudder / vertical and replace it so I have a full mission profile.
 
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