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Mods & Improvements for Completed Airplane?

Dad's RV-10

Well Known Member
Gentleman, I'm looking to get a little direction and guidance. My father was building an early RV-10 but unfortunately passed away before completing the project. I have inherited the airplane and will be removing the wings and empennage in order to ship the aircraft to a shop for completion. I will have the shop install a completely new Garmin panel and also have any and all applicable Service Bulletins addressed.

The plane has not yet been painted and will undergo quite a bit of disassembly for the process of shipping and panel reinstallation.

What I'd like to know is what modifications and improvements should be considered for an aircraft at this stage of completion? For example, I've read about the PlaneAround door center cam kit and I intend to have this installed. All of these improvements or modifications will be performed by the shop.

I'm also intrigued by the SDS EM-5 and am considering having this installed as well, although I have not committed to anything at this point.

While the plane will probably undergo nearly a complete rewire, I know my father installed a Vertical Power VPX and as of now, I intend to keep that as part of the new electrical and avionics installation.

I'm sorry my dad never got to fly his airplane and I'd really like to make this the airplane he dreamed it could be.

Thanks for any and all feedback.
 
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I see you’re in Florida and New York. Probably not necessary for Florida, but I think you’d enjoy having heated seats for your time in New York. I installed seat heat in my otherwise perfect [thanks Chuck!] RV3 and it really makes cold day flying nice. Great bang for the buck. My setup comes from flyboyaccessories.com.
 
If you have USB or 12V jacks, there are some cheap heated seat covers or seat pads out there (Sharper Image, car parts stores, et al) that plug in and don't require wiring inside the seats. Plus, you can take them off in the summer to save weight and wear and tear.

And if you don't have USB jacks and are tearing the panel apart, now is the time to add them! Beyond the seats, it is nice to have power for iPads for charts or whatever other accessories you may have.
 
I see you’re in Florida and New York. Probably not necessary for Florida, but I think you’d enjoy having heated seats for your time in New York...

If you have USB or 12V jacks, there are some cheap heated seat covers or seat pads out there...

...And if you don't have USB jacks and are tearing the panel apart, now is the time to add them! Beyond the seats, it is nice to have power for iPads for charts or whatever other accessories you may have.

The airplane will be based in FL, so right now I am more concerned about ensuring adequate cabin airflow/cooling vs. heating. But who knows where the skies will take me. Heated seat suggestion noted.

I definitely intend to incorporate USB charging ports in the cabin.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Since it’s an RV 10 and you’ll be flying in Florida I might suggest air conditioning.

Air conditioning is something I've given thought to. I haven't ruled it out but from the reading and research I've done thus far, although there are retrofit solutions available and although the airplane will undergo considerable disassembly, it seems most a/c systems are best implemented while the aircraft is being initially constructed.

I realize retrofit is not out of the question but I'm not sure that's a can of worms worth opening. There is obviously a weight penalty with aircon and considerable cost, neither of which are deal breakers. But I think I'd need more convincing as to the viability of the retrofit options before committing to the concept.
 
My advice, having also inherited a “dated” RV is to get it airworthy and fly it!

While I understand the motivation to honor your father with beautiful upgrades, and finishing his masterpiece, you may get yourself into a much more drawn out (and expensive) project than you anticipate. This also gives you an opportunity to determine if the RV10 is the right airplane for your needs/mission.

I would humbly suggest:
1). A detailed inspection by an RV expert (Vic Syracuse or Jesse Saint perhaps) to objectively evaluate what your starting with
2). Get it flying and fly (or have flown) off the Phase I requirements
3). With benefit of that experience determine if you are finishing it to keep (based on your skills and mission) or to sell (a well constructed but basic 10 that has the test period completed is quite valuable).
4. If your keeping it, determine the upgrades you want and have it painted. Lots of things can be done progressively as you have time/interest - but it’s a very good idea to have a clear idea of the final state your working toward.
5. If your selling don’t have it painted, the new owner may want to decide on that

Perhaps you’ve already thought all this through, if so, best of luck!

Peter
200 enjoyable hrs on Dad’s Retirement project!
 
What Peter said!

There is a strategy to follow if you're planning to sell and a different path to follow if you plan to keep and fly it!
 
My advice, having also inherited a “dated” RV is to get it airworthy and fly it!...

...Perhaps you’ve already thought all this through, if so, best of luck!

Peter
200 enjoyable hrs on Dad’s Retirement project!

What Peter said!

There is a strategy to follow if you're planning to sell and a different path to follow if you plan to keep and fly it!

Thanks very much for the replies. Not to imply that I'm Chuck Yeager reincarnated but I fly for a living and I'm confident I'll be comfortable in the RV-10. I have no intention of selling the airplane. It has sentimental value.

While I very much appreciate all of the posted comments, maybe this example will better illustrate my thoughts regarding the type of worthwhile improvements or modifications I'm curious about addressing while the airplane is deconstructed;

A I understand it, my father installed a set of Cleaveland "Sure Grip" rudder pedals. Apparently, these were only available for a short time. I have no experience with these or any other RV-10 pedals. But I have read about the Control Approach pedals. Maybe the Sure Grip pedals are fine. I really don't know. But if I were interested in having the Sure Grip pedals replaced with Control Approach pedals, it would seemingly make sense to do this while the panel is completely removed and access to the pedal assemblies is relatively unfettered, as opposed to coming back to address this after the is airplane is fully reassembled and flying.

EDIT: The Cleaveland "Sure Grip" are brake pedals for the stock Van's rudder pedal assemblies.

I've also seen some mention of modifying the seat tracks to facilitate easier removal of the front seats? Or substituting the PH Aviation flap actuator for the Van's actuator. Would these enhancements not be better addressed now vs. after the airplane is completely reassembled?

I'm not looking to waste money, but I'd like to address things at this stage that make the most sense to address now vs. later, especially after paint.

PS - Peter, I am in the Tampa area too.
 
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Not knowledgeable enough to offer specifics, but while it's apart, do as much as you can for maintainability:
* A friend had fancy wheel pants etc on his -10 and it took him and his wife two hours to check tire pressures
* He also had a three bladed prop and it was difficult to remove the cowling
* On my RV-9A, there are basically no service loops to the avionics, so adding a wire or two to the center stack requires major disassembly
* Wish my plane had LEDs for external lighting. I'd leave 'em on all the time
* Microswitches to make sure doors are latched
* Access to avionics behind the baggage bulkhead! On my -9A, have to take out the top and bottom bulkheads, a pain!
* Headphone jacks so you don't have cords in your lap
* Holders for spare headphone batteries, pens, etc

Enjoy your plane!

Ed
 
The panel

Van’s panel is really Fred Flintstone stuff! There are a couple of really modern panels available, with very easily removable panels for access to the rear.

Go with the latest state of the art EFIS screens with weather and traffic in real-time. Moving weather in our -10 was one of the wisest moves we made.

Best of luck on this fine airplane.

Regards,
 
Van’s panel is really Fred Flintstone stuff! There are a couple of really modern panels available, with very easily removable panels for access to the rear.

Go with the latest state of the art EFIS screens with weather and traffic in real-time. Moving weather in our -10 was one of the wisest moves we made.

Best of luck on this fine airplane.

Of the avionics that were previously installed or purchased by my father, one of the few components I'll be keeping is the GTN-650. Beyond that, I plan to do a full G3X panel.

I am interested in both the Aerosport 310 panel and the quad armrest. But at 6'1" and 225lbs, I'm concerned about the ergonomics of this setup with regard to knee/thigh/leg room vs. some kind of traditional panel with push-pull T/P/M, leaving open the space beneath the panel and above the tunnel. The original panel was configured with the factory throttle quadrant.

I'm going to Sun 'n Fun and I'm hoping there will be many RV-10's on the flight line. Hopefully, I be invited to sit in a few with various different interior configurations.


Is there an overhead panel for (at least) fresh air delivery to your noggin?
There is an overhead, though I'm not sure how it's been plumbed. I haven't seen the airplane for many years but I think the overhead is an early Aerosport panel. I plan to be at the hangar in a couple of weeks so I'll have a much better feel for things at that point.
 
Gentleman, I'm looking to get a little direction and guidance. My father built an early RV-10. It took him quite a while to complete but he received the airworthiness signoff in 2013. For a multitude of reasons, he never flew the airplane and decided to deconstruct much of the instrument panel for various modifications.

Unfortunately, my father recently passed away having never completed the panel improvements. I have inherited the airplane and will be removing the wings and empennage in order to ship the aircraft to a shop for completion. I will have the shop install a completely new Garmin panel and also have any and all applicable Service Bulletins addressed.

The plane has not yet been painted and will undergo quite a bit of disassembly for the process of shipping and panel reinstallation.

What I'd like to know is what modifications and improvements should be considered for an aircraft at this stage of completion? For example, I've read about the PlaneAround door center cam kit and I intend to have this installed. All of these improvements or modifications will be performed by the shop.

I'm also intrigued by the SDS EM-5 and am considering having this installed as well, although I have not committed to anything at this point.

While the plane will probably undergo nearly a complete rewire, I know my father installed a Vertical Power VPX and as of now, I intend to keep that as part of the new electrical and avionics installation.

I'm sorry my dad never got to fly his airplane and I'd really like to make this the airplane he dreamed it could be.

Thanks for any and all feedback.

I have a very nice completed RV-10 with an all Garmin 3 screen panel, a GTN 650, and various mods (lots of Aerosport Products), that make it better than a lot of Cirrus SR-22's. Feel free to call and chat, or come by and fly mine, and I can go over all the mods that made mine a very nice "Magic Carpet". My Cell is 317 407 8479.
 

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First off, sorry about the loss of your father.

Glad you are keeping the plane, and while not a 10 owner (yet), outside of modern panel maybe:

LED lighting (interior and exterior)
P-Mags (or other electronic ignition)
Not sure on the 10 if cowl flaps are a necessary item- but now would be the time
Ruder trim (aerosport has a nice set up)
If it's not already been addressed possibly upgrade the nose wheel bearings or a Berringer wheel. Could do the mains too, or just the Anti-splat bearing upgrade.
 
PH aviation flap motor

The PH aviation flap motor is superior to Vans. Internal flap positioner and much more robust. I’d leave it. I’m using it now in the 14 and purchased for the 10.
 
I have a very nice completed RV-10 with an all Garmin 3 screen panel...

...Feel free to call and chat, or come by and fly mine, and I can go over all the mods that made mine a very nice "Magic Carpet". My Cell is 317 407 8479.
Thanks so much, Larry! Very gracious of you to offer your time. You and I actually spoke a few weeks ago. I'll be sure to reach out again when I get closer to finalizing the panel. I'm definitely going with Garmin.

First off, sorry about the loss of your father.


P-Mags (or other electronic ignition)
Not sure on the 10 if cowl flaps are a necessary item- but now would be the time...

...If it's not already been addressed possibly upgrade the nose wheel bearings or a Berringer wheel. Could do the mains too, or just the Anti-splat bearing upgrade.

Thank you for the condolences. I am interested in the SDS EM-5 full electronic ignition and fuel injection system. But if I don't go that route, I will look at other electronic ignition options. I can't believe those 6 cylinder P-Mags are finally available. I remember stopping by their booth at Oshkosh 10+ years ago and they said the 6 cylinder P-Mag would be introduced within the year.

I'll have to do some reading about the cowl flaps and wheel bearings. Thanks for the suggestions.

The PH aviation flap motor is superior to Vans. Internal flap positioner and much more robust. I’d leave it...

The plane was built with the Van's actuator. I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to retrofit with the PH actuator while it's disassembled?
 
If it is the one at Westfield, I met your dad on several occasions and am sorry to hear of his passing, seemed like a first class guy. I am based at Westfield and if I can be of any assistance, let me know.
Thanks very much, Bruce. I'll miss the old man.

Sent you a private message.
 
Of

I am interested in both the Aerosport 310 panel and the quad armrest. But at 6'1" and 225lbs, I'm concerned about the ergonomics of this setup with regard to knee/thigh/leg room vs. some kind of traditional panel with push-pull T/P/M, leaving open the space beneath the panel and above the tunnel. The original panel was configured with the factory throttle quadrant.

I'.

I am 6' / 200 and have a home made arm rest that is similar to the aerosport. It does nothing to make the cabin feel less roomy, It is great for storage and love having a place to rest my arm. It also hides my headset jacks and O2 ports. I do not have the center console portion that extends to the panel nor the throttle quadrant, so can't say whether that would be a leg room issue. Would be a bit worried about the knees meeting the quadrant though.
 
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...I am interested in both the Aerosport 310 panel and the quad armrest. But at 6'1" and 225lbs, I'm concerned about the ergonomics of this setup with regard to knee/thigh/leg room vs. some kind of traditional panel with push-pull T/P/M, leaving open the space beneath the panel and above the tunnel. The original panel was configured with the factory throttle quadrant....

I am 6' / 200 and have a home made arm rest that is similar to the aerosport. It does nothing to make the cabin feel less roomy, It is great for storage and love having a place to rest my arm. It also hides my headset jacks and O2 ports. I do not have the center console portion that extends to the panel nor the throttle quadrant, so can't say whether that would be a leg room issue. Would be a bit worried about the knees meeting the quadrant though.

Thanks Larry. I'm fairly certain the plane has an older Aerosport center console. Not the "quad" console with the throttle/prop/mixture but just a storage console. It also currently has the throttle/prop/mixture in the factory quadrant location.

All of this is subject to change since the entire panel will be redone but I'm hoping to sit in a few aircraft this week at Sun 'n Fun before I commit to any redesign.

AOPA installed the full Aerosport 310 panel with quad console. This was some feedback from Dave Hircshman regarding the installation:


"Installing the center console and repositioning the throttle quadrant, cables, and fuel lines was an extremely big and complex job. Also, it dramatically narrowed the space available for the front-seaters' legs. I'm an FAA-standard-sized pilot, but after the center console was installed, I was unable to get full aileron deflection without the stick bumping my thighs. Make sure the size of the panel/center console fits you before you commit to it."
 
A big thanks to all the folks who took time to speak with me these past couple of days at Sun 'N Fun. Your shared thoughts, experiences and opinions are greatly appreciated.

An especially big thanks to those who were gracious enough to allow me to get a few minutes of seat time. The opportunity to have a brief, tangible cockpit experience will prove to be incredibly helpful when choosing the new cockpit layout.

Thanks again!
 
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Leg room

Of the avionics that were previously installed or purchased by my father, one of the few components I'll be keeping is the GTN-650. Beyond that, I plan to do a full G3X panel.

I am interested in both the Aerosport 310 panel and the quad armrest. But at 6'1" and 225lbs, I'm concerned about the ergonomics of this setup with regard to knee/thigh/leg room vs. some kind of traditional panel with push-pull T/P/M, leaving open the space beneath the panel and above the tunnel. The original panel was configured with the factory throttle quadrant.

I'm going to Sun 'n Fun and I'm hoping there will be many RV-10's on the flight line. Hopefully, I be invited to sit in a few with various different interior configurations.


There is an overhead, though I'm not sure how it's been plumbed. I haven't seen the airplane for many years but I think the overhead is an early Aerosport panel. I plan to be at the hangar in a couple of weeks so I'll have a much better feel for things at that point.

I agree that the plane is more comfortable with no center console. It reduces hip space. I also agree that air conditioning is more weight and complexity than it is worth. I have a -10 in the Tampa Bay Area (48X) if you want to see or fly sometime.
 
I agree that the plane is more comfortable with no center console. It reduces hip space. I also agree that air conditioning is more weight and complexity than it is worth. I have a -10 in the Tampa Bay Area (48X) if you want to see or fly sometime.
I sat in a few RV-10's at SNF that had the full Aerosport panel with the lower extension and the quad console. And I sat in two that had open space above the tunnel. After having that opportunity, I'm almost sure I want to keep the space above the tunnel open. Right now, I'm leaning toward a two screen setup similar to Randy Vanstory's but without the lower console extension. I'd still keep the center console. I like the armrest. But the lower center panel extension really takes up what I think is valuable knee room.

I'll likely switch from the factory TPM quadrant the plane was initially built with and install push-pull controls in the space where Randy has his cabin heat and lighting controls.

With regard to air conditioning, I'd thought I'd talked myself out of it but while I was sitting in one RV-10 at SNF, the owner said "here, I'll close the door." He latched the door shut for all of about 20 seconds. That was about all it took to make me want A/C :) Nothing is set in stone yet but I'm giving it serious consideration.

At any rate, I just got back from Massachusetts. The wings and empennage are now removed and the airplane is awaiting shipping. I had given the shipper (Stewart Transport) a "no earlier than" pick-up date of April 26th, so I was hoping he'd have me scheduled within a day or two after the 26th. But now he's telling me he has no schedule yet. I couldn't hang around MA waiting for a call that might not come for weeks, so I had to leave. I'll have to go back to MA when he contacts me with a scheduled date.

I now see that my father built the plane with an Aerosport overhead console but he didn't plumb any ventilation to the overhead. The location in the overhead that normally has vents instead has lights. A/C or no A/C, I'll need to get some air to the overhead.
 
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Brad,
I’m about halfway done pulling my 10 apart for this year’s condition inspection. If there’s anything you want to see or have questions about you’re more than welcome to come on over to the hangar.
 
Brad,
I’m about halfway done pulling my 10 apart for this year’s condition inspection. If there’s anything you want to see or have questions about you’re more than welcome to come on over to the hangar.
Thanks Todd. I think I'll be back in FL next week. I'll reach out then.

I'd like to come pick your brain, even if you've got the airplane reassembled by then.
 
Thanks Todd. I think I'll be back in FL next week. I'll reach out then.

I'd like to come pick your brain, even if you've got the airplane reassembled by then.

No worries. You’re welcome anytime. In any event I doubt I’ll have it done before the weekend after next as there’s some maintenance items I’m taking care of beyond the normal condition inspection stuff.
 
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