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Interesting RV-4 I saw today

Retractable gear! Wow how he did that is amazing. Can't help the aft cg situation though.
 
Does look cool, but is the retract worth it?
NOW---a RV7, or RV8, or F1 ---hum----
Perhaps the owner will chime in here--
Tom
 
Also what every good hangar should have installed a fully stocked liquor cabinet in the back for when you return after a long flight!!!!
 
I'd like to know more about that 4. Heard rumors about a retractable RV for years but the rumor always seemed to include Germany as its homebase. Very, very interesting!
 
When I was talking to the owner, he was gracious and let me take a picture and ask questions. I don't know if he visits VAF or not. I will talk with him and ask if he minds letting people contact him.

He said it flys great and is fast. He just smiled when I asked how fast!
 
There was some posts about this plane a few months back. Someone has video of it in the air I think.
 
There was some posts about this plane a few months back. Someone has video of it in the air I think.

But Wait!!! There is another retract -4. The post i was referring to shows a different 4. One with a tip over canopy. Search retractable gear RV-4 it's in there
 
There are some old posts floating around about various retract 4's. I hangared with the builder of one if not the very first built. He built a dozen or so 4's before the FAA rule change shut him down. I started my project there. He had all of the form blocks for the rib modifications, plans, etc... He told me it was only slightly faster than stock and the weight did not make it a worthwhile compromise. He only built one.
Sadly, he passed, and to my knowledge, all of the tooling and plans where lost.
I ran into one of his early partners at breakfast the other day. If I see him again I will ask what he remembers about the retract 4.
 
Retract

Picture on Bing of N66PB in the grass on its belly. There are a couple other retract RV's shown, one is likely photoshopped, the other appears to be real. There was a retract RV at Oshkosh, I think '13, can't remember which model. Also mention of the one in Germany but didn't find a picture.
 
I can assure you this one is real. It is in the hangar right next to mine. The owner flys it quite often. I will try and get a picture of him on take off and landing. I have always been interested in a retractable, but didn't think it was practical. This one causes me to think again. Not on my current project, but maybe someday!
 
Retract

I can assure you this one is real. It is in the hangar right next to mine. The owner flys it quite often. I will try and get a picture of him on take off and landing. I have always been interested in a retractable, but didn't think it was practical. This one causes me to think again. Not on my current project, but maybe someday!

Not questioning that one. I saw the one at Oshkosh, just can't remember much about it. Look at the one on bing it doesn't look real.
 
This seems like a great way to avoid all the fiberglass work for the fairings and wheel pants ... ;-)
 
Photos of Red show up every once in a while... It indeed did have a gear-up landing about four years ago. I think the original red spinner is on the shelf at the left, it appears the owner put a polished spinner on instead when the gear was repaired and the prop replaced.
 
Photos of Red show up every once in a while... It indeed did have a gear-up landing about four years ago. I think the original red spinner is on the shelf at the left, it appears the owner put a polished spinner on instead when the gear was repaired and the prop replaced.
Good Eye Rob. I commented to him about how cool the spinner was and he said he had it made. I cant remember where. He said he hated the other one because if looked like Madonna's ...., well you know!
 
More info?

Cool plane! I'm impressed that he went through all the xtra work!
Not only the retract, but also the effort of installing a -8 canopy on a -4 fuse. Impressive!

It looks like there's an additional fin on top of the fuse, just fwd of the VS?
Maybe xtra stability due to the retracts?

What kind of engine?
There's a few non-standard scoops and intakes on the cowling, so it'd be interesting to know what "he's packing"...? :D

It'd be very interesting with more info of this beauty? What about a few pics from inside the wheel wells?
And how much fuel capacity and how and where are the fuel-tanks?
 
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In the late 90?s there was one parked near me at the Arlington fly in. The owner had purchased it from someone in Canada I believe. He loved flying it, didn?t say how heavy but that it was very fast. He did mention how the builder said it was to much work to do again, I can?t imagine.

On another note: The spinner on the one shown on this post looks to have a Cummins spinner. I just installed one on our 7 and it looks like the same design.

Larry
 
At OSH '13 there was an RV-7RG. The builder/owner was out of Ohio.

When the German RV-4RG was first built and flying there was an extensive article in the EAA's Sport Aviation about it.

The RG was the builder's second RV-4, the first being in the standard configuration. This allowed the article's author to compare the two -4's side-by-side. (Same engine, prop, and paint.)

The builder said the RG was 4 Kts faster and 80 lbs heavier. (His mains and TW retracted.)

The article went into detail about the structural modifications required and the engineering requirementsf the German aviation authorities wanted before the first flight.
 
It looks like there's an additional fin on top of the fuse, just fwd of the VS?
Maybe xtra stability due to the retracts?
The extra fin carries the track that the rear of the canopy runs on. It would add additional stability as well, but I think that was a nice side effect, not a requirement.

What kind of engine?
As I recall, it was an O-360, possibly an IO-360.

And how much fuel capacity and how and where are the fuel-tanks?
Fuel tanks were just moved outboard on the wings, past the last bay where the gear attached. I think the capacity was increased, but the same builder has built a number of RV's with different leading-edge fuel tank lengths and I forget which is which. If you just buy a longer skin, you can make a fuel tank as long as you like... Increasing by a couple of bays is almost trivial.
 
Now you see them, now you...

I saw an RV-4 today at our airport and went over to introduce myself to the owner. When I got close, I couldn't figure out what I was looking at and had to ask! Notice why I was unsure? Very cool!
[URL=http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/rockwoodrv9a/media/rv4retractable_zps06eb6e44.jpg.html][/URL]

Yep, several have been built, the extra weight and expense outweighs the practicality. The one pictured above is originally from WA I believe, it's been around for many years. Very innovative builder. Along with retracts he installed a sliding canopy long before anyone else had one or the RV8, pre-punched skins or A-models even existed.
When I was building my 4 back in the early 90's a German retract-4 was built. In SBS comparisons with a stock 4 they were nearly identical in speed but the retract carried less fuel and less load.

Style points notwithstanding, the stock 4 is hard to beat!

V/R
Smokey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d506a6Id5CY
 
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A Swift-owning friend identified the landing gear as being from a Swift. His is hydraulic, so the hydraulic pump (which I think is driven by an electric motor) would be needed and the actuators.

Dave
 
Memphis RV-4RG

I believe Bob Rutherford, a retired FDX Captain, has a RV-4RG based at Dewitt Spain in Memphis.
 
A Swift-owning friend identified the landing gear as being from a Swift. His is hydraulic, so the hydraulic pump (which I think is driven by an electric motor) would be needed and the actuators.
If you're referring to the red RV-4 in the photos above, the gear is *not* from a Swift. It was from a different kit-built aircraft that was available back in the 80's but is not any longer. The configuration may have been made to look like a Swift, but there are no Swift parts.

I had breakfast with the builder of Red this morning. The design of the German RV-4 is different from this one. The German RV-4 has a long steel torque tube that runs from the front spar through to the rear (as the RV-7 builder did after having issues with skins).

Red's torque tube for the gearleg is only attached to the front spar. However, the ribs behind it connecting to the rear spar are beefier (1/8" I think) and the rear spar is reinforced out to that point as well.

The cruise speed was "a few knots faster" than other RV-4's he had built, but the weight penalty wasn't worth it. It was done more for the challenge than to address any practical considerations. In short, it looks cool. :)

Red had about 300 hours on it when the builder sold it, the next owner put about 1700 hours on it before it had one gear collapse on landing. It's now repaired, with a new owner, and getting lots of air time again. It may be one of the higher-time RV's overall.
 
I'm not sure why the hype about retracts. I can assure you that after maintaining a high performance, retract, twin for many many years you gauze in aww at the simplicity and "wondefulness" of a fixed gear RV and its performance. I can't be happier knowing that when I'm ready to land I have one less thing to worry about ..... I don't have to ask myself " are my retracts down and locked or is my indicator showing a false trigger"? For the type of flying that most of us do, retracts are just silly.
 
Amir,
Some people like me drive Ford Explorers and love them. My business partner has a McLaren. He loves it. I didn't change the plugs until I had over 150k miles. Didn't need to. The last time his was in the shop, it cost more than my Explorer did new.

You don't have to understand the hype about a retractable. You sound very happy with the plane you have. The owner of this plane loves his just as much as you do yours. It works for him - that is what matters.
 
Despite there not being huge performance gains for retractable gear on an RV, I am definitely a fan however. Lately I have been having an itch to build a single seat, fastback, HR-II w/retracts, with an IO-375 for power. Would probably fly it from the back seat.

Has anyone ran across any legit drawings or plans for the retracts in an RV-4? Does the article in Sport Aviation go into enough construction detail that one could build from it?
 
Amir,
Some people like me drive Ford Explorers and love them. My business partner has a McLaren. He loves it. I didn't change the plugs until I had over 150k miles. Didn't need to. The last time his was in the shop, it cost more than my Explorer did new.

You don't have to understand the hype about a retractable. You sound very happy with the plane you have. The owner of this plane loves his just as much as you do yours. It works for him - that is what matters.

Well said. Don't tarnish the other guys gem, polish your own.

We build them because we can, they build a retractable, because they can. Same stuff.
 
My apologies; I wasn't trying to put anyone down. I was merely sharing my small amount of knowledge and experience about something that seemed sexy and cool at first but after having to maintain it year after year, deal with the additional costs, and on top of it all have to worry about it each and every time you are ready to land.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. By all means, build away :D - We love to see cool planes :)
 
Put in their place...

My apologies; I wasn't trying to put anyone down. I was merely sharing my small amount of knowledge and experience about something that seemed sexy and cool at first but after having to maintain it year after year, deal with the additional costs, and on top of it all have to worry about it each and every time you are ready to land.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. By all means, build away :D - We love to see cool planes :)


Retracts definitely have their place and having spent most of my life flying airplanes that cruise far in excess of maximum gear extension speed, needed.
RV's were originally designed for builders on a budget, Wittman gear works well for the mission.

My F-16N buddy Trout scratch-built a set of wings for his RV4 fuselage with his own laminar flow design and retracts he manufactured in his business machine shop. Like Forrest Gump said "he's smart"...:)
They're 90% done but languishing (dusty) while he finishes his SNJ project.

Here's a picture...
Merry Christmas!
Smokey


 
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A real P-51-like wheel well door. Is he going to paint the inside of it green? ;)

I'm glad people experiment this way: we wouldn't know whether or not retracts improve performance until it was done.
 
Retracts definitely have their place and having spent most of my life flying airplanes that cruise far in excess of maximum gear extension speed, needed.

Amen, brother!

As an Aero Engineer-type I think the real interesting part will be seeing what performance he gains with that laminar flow wing!
 
Welcome

Welcome Dan.
Where in CO?
There are a few of us building around the Denver area. Send me an e-mail if you would like to be included.
 
RV6-RG

Here's mine. :)
p51.jpg
 
Those Who Have, Those Who Will

Too true, all who think it a trite expression. The plane that opened this thread belongs to a friend, who is now trailering it back home from OSH after he landed gear up at OSH on Monday evening.

It's his story to tell and I'll reveal nothing further about his identity or the incident.

John Siebold
 
Looks clean but the lack of a tail wheel looks like a photo shop retractable.
The -6 photo is a photoshop... But both the red RV at the head of the story and the German one mentioned had retractable tailwheels.
 
thats sad news

what a bummer.
Well, it will fly again, I trust.


Too true, all who think it a trite expression. The plane that opened this thread belongs to a friend, who is now trailering it back home from OSH after he landed gear up at OSH on Monday evening.

It's his story to tell and I'll reveal nothing further about his identity or the incident.

John Siebold
 
You really have to have a high cruise speed for it to make sense, other than the cool factor of course.

The SR22 with fixed gear beats the pants off a lot of 4 place retractables. They did it by attention to detail, good fairings, reducing cooling drag etc etc. But, as stated, this is experimental aviation and with RVs it is rather difficult to stand out as an individual so I can understand why someone would go for it. Also fitting it to an airplane not designed for it is a huge challenge and that's what some people like about homebuilding.
 
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