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A more comfortable ride in turbulence?

Ed_Wischmeyer

Ed_Wischmeyer

Well Known Member
Although I'm hopeful that the current round of physical therapy will help my spinal issues, there's no hope that my spine will ever again be good for more that 2 Gs (five level fusion, L1-L5, and additional recent symptoms). And the other day, it's newest complaint was whining in moderate turbulence (enough that the downdrafts would lift you out of the seat a little, but not slam your head into the canopy.) The sharp edged updrafts were the uncomfortable ones.

So what to do about getting a better ride in turbulence?
* I talked to the good folks at OregonAero, and their suggestion was to make sure that I wasn't slouched over in the seat. I climbed into the -9A on the ground, and guess what I was doing? Yup, was slouching, but when I sat up straight, my upper arm was pressed against the side rail;
* Fly slower. The RV-9A has adequate speed for cross country, but I'd hate to have to slow down whenever it got bumpy;
* Get a faster plane and fly it slower. That could be a -7A, -10, or -14A. I've already been spoiled by the Garmin G3X touch system for IFR, and that's $40K to replicate in a new plane. The -7A has the same fuselage as the -9A, but I could slow it down to RV-9A speeds. The one time I tried, the -10 seemed heavy enough that I probably shouldn't try pushing it on the ground. RV-10s are also pricey, as are RV-14s which are rare on the market. An -8A is a possibility, but the ride in turbulence is not good for the back seater, and I don't know that the G3X yaw damper will work on an -8A.
* Get a (horrors!) spam can with springs in the seats.

Hate to do it, but the time has come to sell the RV-8, which I love to fly. And the -9A is also a candidate for replacement if I find a reasonable alternative. At this point, however, the easiest solution is to keep the -9A and slow down in turbulence...

Anybody got any better ideas, other than turning the clock back a decade or so? Surely other folks have gone through this, or very similar...
 
options

Ed,
Steve Smith was working on a wing design for the -8 that may improve the ride. I'm assuming that you want to stay on the Experimental side of the airplane world or I would suggest something heavier like a Twin Comanche or F33 Bonanza. (im a little bit partial to the twinco). Both of these options are higher operational cost over the RV but they do have better ride in turbulence. The -10 would also offer a better ride but the entry cost of that bird may be a barrier. It was for me. The wing idea is really interesting but not sure what the lead time would be or construction time once you got your hands on one.
 
Drawing from experience owning a 9A and a Lancair I would suggest that a slick round fuselage with high wing loading isn't affected much in turbulence. The RV beats it in multiple other ways but was far far rougher in turbulence.
 
Sit up straight!!

Ed,
If your spine is aligned, bumps should be more tolerable (also have a spinal fusion).
Some extra relatively firm foam under the seat bottom could help. You don't want it so soft that it's already bottomed out under 1 g.
Increase the wing loading: 1. Fly it at gross weight using ballast as necessary. 2. Take off the wingtips http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=84187
Slow down; the airlines do it.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF
 
Ed, as you guessed, the one downside to the high aspect ratio -9 wing is that it can get rough in bumpy air.

Why not try moving the back rest all the way forward and flip up the back support up so the seat is as laid-back as possible. This will help stop your spine compressing in the bumps.
 
N941WR said:
Ed, as you guessed, the one downside to the high aspect ratio -9 wing is that it can get rough in bumpy air.

Why not try moving the back rest all the way forward and flip up the back support up so the seat is as laid-back as possible. This will help stop your spine compressing in the bumps.
Click to expand...

Bill beat me to it. :) I reclined the seat in my -4, & it made it a *much* more comfortable plane all around. And the military figured out a long time ago that reclining seats improves g tolerance.

Charlie
 
Others have already posted some of what I am thinking. I will try to add something new to this thread.

Wish I had magic words of wisdom but here is what I can tell you about flying my RV-6 for 20-years and 3,300 hours. 1/3 of the hours are logged as Cross Country hours.

I hate turbulence as much as anyone.

Try to pick the days you fly and the time. I like departing as early as sunrise and stay above the turbulence as much as possible. I have a tendency to end flying for the day earlier than many.

15 of the 20 years were based out of KCCB in SoCal so yes I have seen a lot of turbulence. Heading out of the LA Basin I typically headed toward Vegas or Phoenix. Depart at daybreak and around 3 PM, I was stopping for 2nd tank of fuel and spending the night. Flying over Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah early in the morning helps with the ride.

Two weeks ago, I took the airplane out of my hangar at NC25 to go fly a little at 3 PM. Ride was so bad, I was only in the air 15-minutes as the ride was that bad. Need to get back into the habit of making most of my flying in before noon.
 
In a similar place, no discs in L series due to jumping out of perfectly good aircraft. Been dealing with the issue for over 20 years now.

The only answer that worked for me was strengthening my core. It didn’t matter if I was sitting straight or reclined back. Tried bolsters and cushy seat pads. Your PT can give you some low impact exercises. Take your time and build up the intensity. The pain does come back when I slack off the exercises. While not a 100% cure, it does help significantly. For me it was preventing nerve impingement. The way to do that is control spinal movement. Fusion is an option but does come with downsides. Muscular control is another way to control movement. An jarring movement like turbulence will cause movement regardless of what position you are in. For me, I needed to find a way to control / constrain that movement.
 
Ed,

Sorry to hear about your back issues - that can be the worst sort of orthopedic malady. (For my much less serious back issues, I have to do some workarounds that are inconvenient but manageable.)

I don't have helpful comments other than perhaps one of the seat cushion manufacturers would be willing to work directly with you to develop a much improved seat for you.

It seems to me if the seat back is reclined, the seat bottom also has to be raised in the front so you don't have "sliding forward" pressure. Also the lumbar curve has to be right so the downward pressure on your back is well distributed. This sort of mod could require a fair bit of work to get the right angles, the right firmness and shape on the cushions, etc.

The RV-9A is a fairly low wing loading aircraft. I recall taking a test flight in your very -9A when it was previously for sale, and even in mild conditions, we were bumping around a fair bit. Reminded me of the rather bouncy Skipper I trained in, except with effortless power, better visibility, and crisper handling.

Aircraft having significantly higher wing loading will bounce around far less in turbulence, that's just the reality of aviation physics. A higher wing loading aircraft is perhaps the way to go as others have suggested, like a Lancair, Piper Saratoga, Cirrus, etc. These can have the drawback of higher stall speeds, longer takeoff/landing distances, higher operating costs, etc.
...

Of course you could sell me the -9A for a song and you would feel so much better in general!!

Best Regards,

-Paragon
Cincinnati, OH
 
The higher the wing loading , the smoother the ride.

Load it to max gross wt. / slow down and fly in smooth early AM air before the sun gets a chance to heat the ground and make any thermal turbulence.

If you were really motivated, you could make a new set of rocket length wings about 15 inches shorter per side and leave off the wing tips.

Try a ride in a rocket loaded to MGTOW and you might soon be spending some money on a horse trade.:D
 
Maybe this will work for you

Ed_Wischmeyer said:
Although I'm hopeful that the current round of physical therapy will help my spinal issues, there's no hope that my spine will ever again be good for more that 2 Gs (five level fusion, L1-L5, and additional recent symptoms). And the other day, it's newest complaint was whining in moderate turbulence (enough that the downdrafts would lift you out of the seat a little, but not slam your head into the canopy.) The sharp edged updrafts were the uncomfortable ones.

So what to do about getting a better ride in turbulence?
* I talked to the good folks at OregonAero, and their suggestion was to make sure that I wasn't slouched over in the seat. I climbed into the -9A on the ground, and guess what I was doing? Yup, was slouching, but when I sat up straight, my upper arm was pressed against the side rail;
* Fly slower. The RV-9A has adequate speed for cross country, but I'd hate to have to slow down whenever it got bumpy;
* Get a faster plane and fly it slower. That could be a -7A, -10, or -14A. I've already been spoiled by the Garmin G3X touch system for IFR, and that's $40K to replicate in a new plane. The -7A has the same fuselage as the -9A, but I could slow it down to RV-9A speeds. The one time I tried, the -10 seemed heavy enough that I probably shouldn't try pushing it on the ground. RV-10s are also pricey, as are RV-14s which are rare on the market. An -8A is a possibility, but the ride in turbulence is not good for the back seater, and I don't know that the G3X yaw damper will work on an -8A.
* Get a (horrors!) spam can with springs in the seats.

Hate to do it, but the time has come to sell the RV-8, which I love to fly. And the -9A is also a candidate for replacement if I find a reasonable alternative. At this point, however, the easiest solution is to keep the -9A and slow down in turbulence...

Anybody got any better ideas, other than turning the clock back a decade or so? Surely other folks have gone through this, or very similar...
Click to expand...
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I installed front seatbelts in the Doll that have a ratchet on the lap belt. I installed them for the purpose of doing aerobatics. You simply can't pull the lap belt tight enough by yanking on the belt on both sides. With the ratchet you can depress your bottom into the cushion, and even flying inverted, only your hair moves toward the canopy.

When you get into turbulence, you can ratchet it down a couple more clicks and stay firmly attached to the seat. No bouncing or stressing your spine. No hitting your head on the canopy!

Hooker Harness only sells their beautiful ratchet seatbelt as a double belt for aerobatics. I tried to get them to make me a single ratchet belt. No luck. So I purchased one front seat double aerobatic belt, and front and rear shoulder and crotch belts. I then cut the double belt apart and used the non-ratchet in the rear and the ratchet belt in the front. Problem solved.

5n10ev.jpg


Doug Reeves photo.
 
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