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-   -   RV-14 Engine choice (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=98748)

jswareiv 08-07-2016 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salto (Post 1101331)
Thanks for access to your build site Stoney.
Very nice paint scheme?

Thank you, 2 more weeks and I fly to Ft. Worth to pick it up, can't wait!

rvbuilder2002 08-07-2016 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswareiv (Post 1101237)
If you are looking to customize your engine, whether it's a 360 or 390, check with Ly-Con. Great product, great reputation and their customer service is 2nd to none. I didn't know the first thing about what I really needed in an engine and they spent a ton of time helping and educating me. I think they were very fair and didn't oversell me on things I probably didn't need. My requirements were, what can I do to get the most bang for my buck for speed and economy. On the Dyno, it tested out at 235HP and at 8,000' 173kts, burning 9.6GPH. Specs of what they did are on my blog.

This is not intended to Dis Stoney regarding the choices he made on his engine.... just pointing out that you don't necessarily have to pay for special extras to get good performance.

I have flown the RV-14A demonstrator on a couple of trips getting equal or better speed/ fuel flow (the tri gear should technically be just slightly slower).

It will easily true out at 171-172 Kts at 8.3-8.5 GPH at 9500 '

It has a bare bones stock IO-390.

MLock 08-08-2016 03:42 AM

Stoney is obviously a talented and well thought out builder, but I have to chime in with Scott. On my way to OSH this year, N914VA had a TAS of 175Kts, 8,500', 10.2 gph at peak EGT. Again, a stock I0-390.

After an enlightening conversation with Scott about LOP operation, I will begin to experiment and see how I can fine tune engine operation.

jswareiv 08-08-2016 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLock (Post 1101406)
Stoney is obviously a talented and well thought out builder, but I have to chime in with Scott. On my way to OSH this year, N914VA had a TAS of 175Kts, 8,500', 10.2 gph at peak EGT. Again, a stock I0-390.

After an enlightening conversation with Scott about LOP operation, I will begin to experiment and see how I can fine tune engine operation.

Thank you Mitch for the compliment. However, I am a first time builder with absolutely no prior experience. I made most of my choices from other's experience and research. Scott has forgotten so much more than I will ever know and respect him immensely. So... I must be doing something wrong. Once I get the plane back from paint, and I get the 100 hours on it, I will again check the numbers and report back. If I understand the power equation, if all else is equal, the increase in HP should result in faster speeds, however, the GPH may be higher. Once I am confident I am doing everything correct, to get the most accurate readings, I will report back. I have checkers in the new paint scheme, so that should get me at least 5 MPH. :)

rvbuilder2002 08-08-2016 09:07 AM

Since I don't have any recent cross country flights, and since my memory isn't what it used to be, I decided to double check my self.......

Here is a post (first post in the thread) from a couple years ago showing that my stated fuel flow was off a little bit but not much. Still good speed vs Fuel flow #'s with a stock engine.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=119114

Tom Martin 08-08-2016 09:46 AM

I have just gone through an engine change on my Rocket. Not an RV but I now have a good comparison of High compression (10:1), and flow matched cylinders to a totally stock lycoming engine.
I had 930 hours on my original engine and had had the ECI cylinders off three times due to ring delimitation. The last time the engine never broke in and after 60 hours of blow by my engine started to make metal. An inspection showed a spalled cam that had been perfect prior to the last cylinder replacement.
While tearing the engine down excessive crank bearing wear was evident. Was this caused by the high compression pistons or wear induced by the products of ring blow by? Probably a little of both, I had known that TBO would be reduced using the HC pistons but had hoped for at least 1500 hours not less then 1000.
I decided to use brand new stock Lycoming jugs on the rebuild.

After 60 plus hours on this rebuild I can say that I have lost 5 knots in cruise and burn about 1 gallon more per hour at rich of peak settings. The ECI jugs did not seem to like LOP operations and the speeds dropped way off to the point that I did not feel there were any real savings in terms of time or fuel with LOP settings.

With the new jugs I can run quite nicely LOP and after a few nozzle swaps I have all cylinders peaking within 0.1 gph, a number I have never gotten close to in all my other aircraft. The engine runs very smooth and I am experimenting with increasing power levels running LOP and there is some promise that I am going to get my fuel economy back. I am afraid that that extra 5 knots is gone for good.
The engine is broken in and oil consumption was one quart in 30 hours which is quite an amazing difference from the ECI jugs. At the end of the 30 hours the oil still has a gold tinge to it!

I have no regrets regarding the HC pistons and the flow balancing. At the time I was serious about racing and my numbers were very good. It came at a price in terms of longevity but money spent, I will forget, race wins I will not.
It is too bad that I had not gone with the Lycoming jugs from the start but at that time, 12 years ago, I had had some issues with lycoming quality and ECI had these new jugs that promised corrosion resistance. Since that time competition has upped the Lycoming quality and we all know how many folks have had issues with ECI jugs. It would indeed be interesting to see how HC pistons and flow balanced Lycoming jugs would have done.
At this time I am very happy with my stock engine; there was always this little black cloud in the back of my mind while flying the non stock engine, especially in areas of rugged terrain!

jswareiv 08-08-2016 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 (Post 1101473)
Since I don't have any recent cross country flights, and since my memory isn't what it used to be, I decided to double check my self.......

Here is a post (first post in the thread) from a couple years ago showing that my stated fuel flow was off a little bit but not much. Still good speed vs Fuel flow #'s with a stock engine.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=119114

One last bit of clarification, I wasn't recommending against the stock engine, I said in my post "if you are looking to customize it", they should also speak to Ly-Con. They have a great reputation.

rvbuilder2002 08-08-2016 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswareiv (Post 1101566)
One last bit of clarification, I wasn't recommending against the stock engine, I said in my post "if you are looking to customize it", they should also speak to Ly-Con. They have a great reputation.

No problem..... I didn't read it that way.

And I am not specifically recommending against modified engines either.

Just pointing out that the performance you have reported with an engine that is supposed to have an additional 25 HP is not better, and if anything worse (because of fuel flow) than RV-14's that have bone stock engines.

Flywade4 09-27-2016 09:03 PM

IO-360 from a 177RG
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike H (Post 1010977)
The Aerosport IO-382 is a PARALLEL VALVE engine. The IO-390-A3B6 and IO-360-A1B6 are ANGLE VALVE engines. I see where lots of -14 builders, or potential builders talk about this engine being an alternative. It can be an alternative if you are willing to modify the baffeling and other parts FWF to make it work. For the $1000-$2000 "savings" vs the IO-390 I am not sure it is worth it.

If you really want to build a -14 on the "cheap" I would look for a serviceable angle valve IO-360 from a Mooney or a C-177RG.

I have a Low time IO 360 in my 177RG that I want to use, What do I need to know?

SabreFlyr 09-28-2016 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flywade4 (Post 1114821)
I have a Low time IO 360 in my 177RG that I want to use, What do I need to know?

I'm thinking that there is a basic list of the required specs in this thread but I didn't find it from a brief scan. IIRC, you need an angle valve IO-360 (mostly because of CG issues, I believe), with horizontal induction & forward governor. Don't quote me, but I believe that the 177RG engine meets those specs. It's an -A1B6D, correct? Just need to know how that differs from the -A1B6.


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