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-   -   Introducing the RV-14 (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=89023)

fmiddleton 07-29-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel (Post 684228)
So, the stall speed stays the same regardless of weight?

Interesting. At light weight the stall speed of the -14 is 5 mph higher than the -7, but at gross weight it is 2 mph lower.

How they do that?

Yes...remember that a stall occurs when the critical angle of attack is exceeded, not related to weight. My guess is that the wing profile causes your observation, but I'm not an aerodynamicist and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

skylor 07-29-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel (Post 684228)
So, the stall speed stays the same regardless of weight?

Interesting. At light weight the stall speed of the -14 is 5 mph higher than the -7, but at gross weight it is 2 mph lower.

How they do that?

Don't know, but I suspect one of the figures is in error. Nevertheless, these are the numbers that Van's has published in their brochure so they should be included in the comparison.

skylor 07-29-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmiddleton (Post 684236)
Yes...remember that a stall occurs when the critical angle of attack is exceeded, not related to weight. My guess is that the wing profile causes your observation, but I'm not an aerodynamicist and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Yes but increased weight typically requires more angle of attack at a given airspeed to produce the required lift...hence critical angle of attack should be reached at higher airspeed when at gross vs light loading. Also, this is supposed to be the same wing section as the -10 which has different gross and light load stall speeds. The -14 does have a lower gross weight wing loading than the -10.

Skylor

fmiddleton 07-29-2012 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylor (Post 684239)
Yes but increased weight typically requires more angle of attack at a given airspeed to produce the required lift...hence critical angle of attack should be reached at higher airspeed when at gross vs light loading. Also, this is supposed the be the same wing section as the -10 which has different gross and light load stall speeds. The -14 does have a lower gross weight wing loading than the -10.

Skylor

I think that works though...in this case weight is relevant with the same wing profile. Lift = Speed * Angle of Attack. Lift has to counteract the weight of the plane, and they stall at the same AoA, therefore the speed will be different. I guess this also just disproved my original assertion about weight...however, the stall AoA on the -7 and -14 is likely different.

skylor 07-29-2012 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmiddleton (Post 684240)
...however, the stall AoA on the -7 and -14 is likely different.

Agreed...different airfoils, different critical AOA...but the stall AOA should be the same for the 10 and 14, at different speeds though.

Dave12 07-29-2012 07:07 PM

I am pretty sure one of the Van's staff said that a IO360 could be substituted for the IO390.

Sig600 07-29-2012 10:19 PM

It didn't look like it from the "walk around" video, but does anyone know if the -14 uses a reflexed flap position like the -10 in cruise?

rvnor 07-30-2012 05:16 AM

VNE ????
 
Anyone know the VNE???
Would be perfect with the IO408 for mogas, 218 HP:D
OlaM

Walt 07-30-2012 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig600 (Post 684422)
It didn't look like it from the "walk around" video, but does anyone know if the -14 uses a reflexed flap position like the -10 in cruise?

According to rep, yes.

BHunt 07-30-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvnor (Post 684443)
Anyone know the VNE???
Would be perfect with the IO408 for mogas, 218 HP:D
OlaM

That engine has a 10.5:1 compression ratio and is cleared for 91 UL. How is the 390 not approved for mogas with a 8.7:1?

DanH 07-30-2012 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHunt (Post 684612)
That engine has a 10.5:1 compression ratio and is cleared for 91 UL. How is the 390 not approved for mogas with a 8.7:1?

8.9:1 per the TCDS. Are they "approved" per the same standard?

BHunt 07-30-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 684620)
8.9:1 per the TCDS. Are they "approved" per the same standard?

After further reading, only the lower compression (8.7:1) IO-408 is approved for mogas.

rvnor 07-31-2012 07:57 AM

MOGAS
 
Jupp, the 408 is approved for MOGAS with lower compression, 218 HP:D
And the 390 will also run on MOGAS if the compression is lowered, performing around 200HP.
Remeber, this is Experimental, we can make the changes we want.
And BPE or anyone....will probably offer 390 for MOGAS if we, the customers, want it

OlaM

Bruce 07-31-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig600 (Post 684422)
It didn't look like it from the "walk around" video, but does anyone know if the -14 uses a reflexed flap position like the -10 in cruise?

I thought it had Fowler flaps . Reflexable ?????

Neal@F14 07-31-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce (Post 684897)
I thought it had Fowler flaps . Reflexable ?????

Not Fowler flaps, just slotted flaps with the hinges shaped like V's under the flap/wing. Very easy to reflex by adjusting the length of the flap pushrods.

Ausflyer 08-03-2012 03:40 AM

How much help needed?
 
I have completed a -12 and really enjoyed the process. Vans technology and paperware were so user-friendly.
I keep seeing reports that the -14 has the same process, and builders can expect a 30% reduction in build time, compared with the -7.
What I have not been able to find in posts to date is just how much of the -14 riveting is solid rivets. And more importantly for me, how much of the solid riveting needs a helper on the bucking bar? I built my -12 on my own. Including flipping the wings. I could set all the rivets without assistance.
Can a -14 be built with minimal help?
Rod

rleffler 08-03-2012 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ausflyer (Post 685720)
I have completed a -12 and really enjoyed the process. Vans technology and paperware were so user-friendly.
I keep seeing reports that the -14 has the same process, and builders can expect a 30% reduction in build time, compared with the -7.
What I have not been able to find in posts to date is just how much of the -14 riveting is solid rivets. And more importantly for me, how much of the solid riveting needs a helper on the bucking bar? I built my -12 on my own. Including flipping the wings. I could set all the rivets without assistance.
Can a -14 be built with minimal help?
Rod


Rod,

I'm building a 10, so I can tell you it can be done by yourself. However, there are some tasks that are easier with a partner. Since the 14 uses the 10 wing, riveting the bottom skin is easier if you have a partner to assist. The RV-10 community has a cheat sheet on the order of rivets to do first to make the job easier. I suspect the logic would apply to the 14 as well.

bob

rocketbob 08-03-2012 06:58 AM

Late to this thread. Saw the -14 at OSH and my overall opinion on it is....

meh.

Just flew a -7 this week and was reminded how much nicer a -6 flies. The -14 will fly like the -10...heavy.

bill@fusion4.net 08-03-2012 07:07 AM

I agree with Bob
 
I'm building a 10, and I have had less than 5 hours of someone helping me rivet. I am done with 99% of the riveting. Most of that was on the fuselage.

Bill

Ausflyer 08-03-2012 06:46 PM

Hi Bill and Bob
Thanks for your encouraging replies. It looks like Vans has single builder as one of their design constraints on the -10. I hope the -14 is the same. They need to point it out more clearly in their promptional releases, if that's the case.

With the 12 vans made a big thing of the lack of jigs and the small collection of tools required. I hope we hear more of that stuff for the -14.
Rod

pck 08-22-2012 10:15 PM

Nice Bird
 
Looks great and the extra roominess is a good addition, but..... $9000 for the wing kit ... wow $2200 over a 7 wing

Joness0154 08-23-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pck (Post 692326)
Looks great and the extra roominess is a good addition, but..... $9000 for the wing kit ... wow $2200 over a 7 wing

Not surprising, as it's based off the -10 wing which goes for about $9,500

pilottangocharlie 08-23-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pck (Post 692326)
Looks great and the extra roominess is a good addition, but..... $9000 for the wing kit ... wow $2200 over a 7 wing

Don't forget there is more in the kit than what a -7 wing kit includes. Their idea is for the builder to entirely complete a piece of the plane as go along building. What I'm ready to see is just how much will be included in the base kit. A set of lights and autopilot gear for a wing isn't free and things like this COULD be the reason for the difference in price.

Ron B. 08-23-2012 01:51 PM

I'm pretty sure the landing lights and wing tip strobes are included but I doubt the autopilot servos will be.
Ron

David Paule 08-23-2012 02:20 PM

On the RV-12, those are all options.

Dave

Rich_in_AK 08-23-2012 05:29 PM

lighting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron B. (Post 692545)
I'm pretty sure the landing lights and wing tip strobes are included but I doubt the autopilot servos will be.
Ron

If you watch the walkaround video on Vans website, he says that the cutouts are there for the landing lights if you want to add them. Same on the wing tip lens, there for if you want the lighting in the future.

Surfboy 08-27-2012 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel (Post 682886)
The canopy has a jettison. In the walk-around video they show a handle that'll basically eject the thing off the airplane.

I think that should be an option cos it is fugly/real estate for one and how many peeps fly with parchutes:eek:

Rich_in_AK 08-27-2012 10:02 AM

CAnopy Release
 
Having built the RV-7 which also has the release I can tell you that it is a very nice thing to have for doing any kind of maintenance behind the panel. The canopy can be quickly and easily removed. The emergency handle that goes with it probably costs less than a dollar to make so would be kind of ridiculous to charge extra for it as an option. You don't need to install the handle if it makes you nervous.

Mike S 08-27-2012 10:26 AM

I talked to them about this at the Homecoming, and the way the gas lift strut is installed has a lot to do with this.

Basically the hinge and strut mechanism are mounted to the airframe, and the canopy is mounted to the hinge-----makes it a lot easier to build if the canopy is removable.

philip_g 09-09-2012 06:30 PM

I can understand it's not for everyone, but a 2 seat RV10 as they describe it is perfect for my mission, being both big and tall, I'll pay a little speed and weight penalty for the comfort. Plus hopefully simplified wiring and lower build time, I'm sold.

I do question the benefit of using the I0-390 over a 200hp 360, especially at the price they get for a 390 when I can buy a used 360 (hopefully). Anyone have thoughts on that?

w1curtis 09-09-2012 10:36 PM

On speaking with a Vans rep at OSH, a 200 HP angle valve IO-360 is also usable with the RV-14 since its external dimensions are the same as the IO-390 and would be able to utilize the same firewall forward kit without any modifications.

rvbuilder2002 09-11-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip_g (Post 697512)
I do question the benefit of using the I0-390 over a 200hp 360, especially at the price they get for a 390 when I can buy a used 360 (hopefully). Anyone have thoughts on that?

Not directly comparable to prices of a used engine (when you can find a good one), but from what I have heard so far, the OEM price for a new IO-390 through Van's could end up being about equal to the OEM price of a new IO-360 (200 HP).

flyboy1963 09-11-2012 12:41 PM

tryin' it on for size....warning!!!
 
I made my first pilgrimmage to the mothership last week, picked up a few hats, parts etc.
Even tho' I was late, ( Portland 'no turns' signs are new to me!!! :( they called out Ken Scott who gave my family a personal tour of the facility!
...then out to the hangar, where I sat in the new -14a.

My advice?

Don't!

.....as would be expected with a design as it evolves, it's a whole lot of things I wish my -9a was....but I couldn't help thinking..." aw, man, why didn't he do this one FIRST?" :)

KCBerner 09-11-2012 08:00 PM

-14 pricing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 (Post 697983)
from what I have heard so far, the OEM price for a new IO-390 through Van's could end up being about equal to the OEM price of a new IO-360 (200 HP).

I emailed Vans and asked when they'd have at least preliminary pricing on the rest of the -14 kits. They replied: "best guess is about $85,000 for the complete airplane. We should have a wing kit price soon, maybe a further kit before
the year end. An IO-390 will probably be a little less than the IO-360 we sell, $39,300." ...so I guess that lines up with what you heard.

bhassel 09-11-2012 08:26 PM

Fortunately, I'm not that far along on my 9. If I can afford it the 14 looks like it has stolen my heart (now to see if the wallet can stand the shock)!

Bob

rgmwa 09-11-2012 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy1963 (Post 698035)
...( they called out Ken Kruger who gave my family a personal tour of the facility!

Is Ken still doing any work for Vans?

Louise Hose 09-11-2012 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgmwa (Post 698203)
Is Ken still doing any work for Vans?

I'm pretty sure he meant Ken Scott, who gave the afternoon tour yesterday.

philip_g 09-12-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhassel (Post 698170)
Fortunately, I'm not that far along on my 9. If I can afford it the 14 looks like it has stolen my heart (now to see if the wallet can stand the shock)!

Bob

if I read it right, it really hurts to drop the 9k to start with the wing kit first.

bhassel 09-12-2012 05:19 PM

Yeah - I'm doing a little chocking on that one. I sure would like to start the emp first. Of course I can wait, but...

Bob

philip_g 09-13-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhassel (Post 698430)
Yeah - I'm doing a little chocking on that one. I sure would like to start the emp first. Of course I can wait, but...

Bob

Well just means us pay as you go guys pay a little more and go a little less at first I guess :D

Seems like the more I make the further away the dream of building gets but I digress....


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