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-   -   transition training in RV-12 (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=86322)

edward7048 05-15-2012 10:59 AM

transition training in RV-12
 
I am looking for some one who can give transition training in a RV-12
in the middle of the U.S., #361 is about ready to fly but insurance
needs me to have some training in a RV-12.

MLock 05-15-2012 05:20 PM

You can contact John Albury at Jetguy@att.net. He is in Texas. That's pretty much the southern middle.

He does RV-12 training. Otherwise you'll have to go see Mike Seager out at the factory.

HDDAHL 05-17-2012 06:05 AM

Transition Training
 
Looking for a ride or transition training in the 12. Currently fly a 9A. Am told by Vans that the 12 flys much like a 9. Live in SC - Mitch, can you help? Or is there someone closer? Thanks. Ready for engine start.

Doug Dahl

HDDAHL 05-17-2012 06:06 AM

Sorry - email is hddahl@hargray.comhddahl@hargray.com

Geico266 05-17-2012 06:07 AM

The 9 does indeed fly like the -12. Just a little lighter input on the stick, and a little more responsive. You'll do fine. :D

Catbird 05-17-2012 08:39 AM

Geico,

Your second sentence is a bit vague. Are you saying the RV-9 is a little lighter input on the stick and a little more responsive than the RV-12? Or are you saying the opposite?

DAR Airworthiness Inspection this Saturday, May 19, 2012. First flight is imminent.

Catbird

LittleJoeA 05-17-2012 08:59 AM

Catbird,

Good luck on your DAR Inspection. I look forward to reading about your first flight.

yankee-flyer 05-17-2012 08:10 PM

Pitch change
 
The biggest difference between the -12 and any other low-wing airplane I've flown (and there aren't THAT many) is the pitch change when flaps are are added or retracted. Much more like a C-170's barn doors in that respect. Apparently has to do with the fact they're full-span. The other difference is that if you're above 55 knots on final you'll need a lot of runway. Transition training is HIGHLY recommended if you've been flying Brand C or P-- the 12 flies a lot like a Grumman (except for pitch changew/flap).

Wayne 143WM

Peterk 05-17-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catbird (Post 659962)
Geico,

Your second sentence is a bit vague. Are you saying the RV-9 is a little lighter input on the stick and a little more responsive than the RV-12? Or are you saying the opposite?

DAR Airworthiness Inspection this Saturday, May 19, 2012. First flight is imminent.

Catbird

For me personally, the largest transition issue was learning the throttle control system used for the Rotax. It is spring loaded to go full power unless locked. That went against all my muscle memory. Learn how that puppy works during your taxi tests. My final best solution was to operate the "push/pull" with my palm around the end while my single index finger rests on the locking "turn" so that I can lock and unlock at anytime instantly without moving my finger more than a half inch. First time you take your hand off the throttle without locking it you'll get smart real quick.

Pete

KALEWIS 05-18-2012 12:05 AM

I agree w/ peterk , that throttle is backwards to everything I am used too. After cert. I am putting a lighter spring on. Just finished W&B and have some taxi time, and the free castor nosewheel is easier to figure out than the throttle control is.

pietermk 05-18-2012 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterk (Post 660161)
For me personally, the largest transition issue was learning the throttle control system used for the Rotax. It is spring loaded to go full power unless locked. That went against all my muscle memory. Learn how that puppy works during your taxi tests. My final best solution was to operate the "push/pull" with my palm around the end while my single index finger rests on the locking "turn" so that I can lock and unlock at anytime instantly without moving my finger more than a half inch. First time you take your hand off the throttle without locking it you'll get smart real quick.

Pete

I just want to say that it is not a Rotax "feature" this is how Vans implemented it. It is the one thing I am apprehensive about, I understand the reasoning but those locks are sometimes hard to loosen especially when your hands are cold. The Remos uses a similar lock but no throttle springs and the one I fly you have to really tighten to stop the throttle from creeping out.

Peter

Peterk 05-19-2012 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pietermk (Post 660450)
I just want to say that it is not a Rotax "feature" this is how Vans implemented it. It is the one thing I am apprehensive about, I understand the reasoning but those locks are sometimes hard to loosen especially when your hands are cold. The Remos uses a similar lock but no throttle springs and the one I fly you have to really tighten to stop the throttle from creeping out.

Peter

No. It is a Rotax "feature". It is specifically addressed in the Rotax 912ULS Installation Manual. It is part of the carburetor set-up...full throttle warnings included. Van's apparently decided to leave well enough alone. I have no idea what Remos did but it is a certified SLSA and bound by Rotax to use only their certified technicians. You might ask how they got permission to change it.

Mich48041 05-19-2012 08:45 AM

Two different "Features"
 
The super strong springs are supplied by Rotax with the engine.
The throttle cable is supplied by Van's.
Joe Gores

yankee-flyer 05-19-2012 03:08 PM

Softer Springs
 
The suoer-strong springs that come with the RV-12 installation were made either for Van's or Rotax by McFarlane Aviation. They have a much softer set available strictly for the '12-- I forget the part number but they'll know what you're talking about. They'll still pull the throttle open in you turn loose of it, but not nearly as fast. They have the same "straight" lengths as the originals and Are "clocked" the same.

Wayne 143WM

rgmwa 05-19-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee-flyer (Post 660580)
The suoer-strong springs that come with the RV-12 installation were made either for Van's or Rotax by McFarlane Aviation. They have a much softer set available strictly for the '12-- I forget the part number but they'll know what you're talking about. They'll still pull the throttle open in you turn loose of it, but not nearly as fast. They have the same "straight" lengths as the originals and Are "clocked" the same.

Wayne 143WM

McFarlane lists two different part numbers with the same description. Does anybody know which is the softer spring?

http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Se...&Search=rotax&

rgmwa 05-19-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgmwa (Post 660610)
McFarlane lists two different part numbers with the same description. Does anybody know which is the softer spring?

http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Se...&Search=rotax&

Another thought: does anyone know whether Vans is using the softer springs on new engines?

BigJohn 05-19-2012 06:27 PM

McFarlane No. 6534. See: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displa...=139315&row=14

Peterk 05-19-2012 09:06 PM

I'll stick with the factory spring...Rotax that is. It is only a transition issue because it's different/not dangerous...or even difficult to work with. In fact, if my throttle breaks on take off, my preference would most certainly be the spring that opens the throttle the fastest.

Pete

rvbuilder2002 05-19-2012 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee-flyer (Post 660580)
The suoer-strong springs that come with the RV-12 installation were made either for Van's or Rotax by McFarlane Aviation.

This statement is false.

The engines are supplied to RV-12 builders by Van's, configured as built and delivered by Rotax. The installed springs are the standard part that you would get if you ordered springs using teh Rotax Illustrated Parts Cat.

The only things specifically done to the engines for installation on an RV-12 are that they get assembled with the water pump inlet housing pre-installed in the correct orientation, and a main water pump housing with outlet pipes pointing directly forward.

gblwy 05-20-2012 03:44 PM

I'm in favour of sticking to the Rotax spec'ed engine, but that doesn't alter the fact that some builders don't have a problem with setting the throttle friction, and others do. My throttle creeps forward at all revs below about 4500 no matter how tight I twist the friction grip.

It's not much fun on a go-around after tightening the throttle as much as possible to keep the revs low for landing.

I wish I could change something to make this a little more user-friendly.

Cheers...Keith

Ausflyer 05-20-2012 04:47 PM

throttle friction
 
Hi Keith,
I found 3 things worth doing:
Replace the springs with the softer McFarlane alternatives
Replace the leather packing washers, the original ones are probably too dry and hard
Put a little antiseize grease on the thread for the knurled knob to eliminate the possibility of galling in the aluminium thead.

Get your throttle working properly and you will be able to relax more on final.
Rod

NASA515 05-21-2012 11:44 AM

This is a great set of messages, but it's too bad it got buried in a thread labeled "transition training" about looking for a CFI. I wish it could be sprung out into a thread with a better title. I only found it by accident after wondering why there were so many pages about finding an instructor.

I agree with the posters who dislike the throttle. I think it sucks. If your car operated this way, you'd have one of those "uncommanded accelerations." Humans should not have to "learn" to cope with and accept some quirk of the machine - machines should be designed and built to accomodate humans.

Bob Bogash
N737G

Tony_T 05-21-2012 02:12 PM

Hey Roberto,

Lots of good info about the throttle springs & the spring open failure mode in several past threads:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...rottle+springs

Tony

NASA515 05-21-2012 03:01 PM

Missed you at my Kelly Johnson talk at the Museum Saturday, Anthony. You missed (another) good one.....

Roberto
N737G

P.S. Roger the past threads - have perused them before - might have even posted on them!


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