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-   -   Bomb bay for flour bombs (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=80528)

Ironflight 12-30-2011 05:21 PM

Somewhere, in a dark corner of a basement in a windowless building, a DHS Web-bot is beginning to stir..... :)

LynolA 12-31-2011 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpallist (Post 611333)
An interesting discussion. Seven years ago I constructed a camera port in the baggage floor behind the copilot's seat in my RV-6... it is a standard 4" Van's type inspection port hole in the skin with backing plate and aligned with an identical 4" hole in the baggage floor skin... both with cover plates which attach with screws and nutplates. (When in use, I made a clear lexan coverplate for the outer hole to shoot through). The camera port worked great: I built a mount to fit my digital SLR to the port, used a long cable shutter release and routed the video output to a PDA mounted near the panel so I could see what I was shooting.... but, that's a different story.
A few years later, the opportunity for four bombing presented itself... and I already had a port!! Some PVC pipe and plumbing adapters from the hardware store and I had a ready-made flour-bombing set up. ... I use a circular piece of cardboard at the bottom of the load, immediately above the pins.
If someone could tell me how to post some photos, I will do so.

Cheers, John P.

I can help you post the photos, I'll PM you.
Both these ideas are great. I can see dropping one or several flour bombs at at time. I take it the cardboard divider leaves the airplane with the flour bomb. Nice multi-load concept, pretty simple and removable. That fits my criteria. The plus is multiple use for camera platform too. Will you share your camera adapter plate details too? I think several of us are interested in you video set up too. What video output to what PDA?

AlexPeterson 12-31-2011 08:21 AM

Let's just say I was contemplating this a year or two ago, you know, an external store for extra toilet paper in case one gets caught in the boonies in need...



I was going to attach it to several of the screws on the bell crank access cover. Hadn't gotten as far as how to deploy said rolls, but I was thinking a single bowden cable going under all three. Pull 4", deploy one, pull another 4", second one, etc. Put a spring of some sort on top of each roll. Hmmm.

pkill 12-31-2011 04:38 PM

Good discussion, we were wondering about the intricacies of a hatch in the RV.

TP out the door would not always completely unroll?. Ended up prepping each roll with masking tape on the first 5 feet or so, then rolling them back up. Grasping the tape as the roll goes out the door insures a completely unrolled streamer hanging in the sky for all kinds of fun.

Spreading Ashes was also problematic at first, some of the ash always ended up back in the cabin? joke was The Dearly Departed didn?t want to get out. A PVC pipe out into the slip stream did the trick after that, although some ash has bone fragments which can hang up.

pk

AlexPeterson 12-31-2011 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironflight (Post 611359)
Somewhere, in a dark corner of a basement in a windowless building, a DHS Web-bot is beginning to stir..... :)

Ah, yes, DHS probably has most of us on this forum on their lists for numerous reasons...

LynolA 01-01-2012 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpallist (Post 611333)
An interesting discussion. Seven years ago I constructed a camera port in the baggage floor behind the copilot's seat in my RV-6... it is a standard 4" Van's type inspection port hole in the skin with backing plate and aligned with an identical 4" hole in the baggage floor skin... both with cover plates which attach with screws and nutplates. (When in use, I made a clear lexan coverplate for the outer hole to shoot through). The camera port worked great: I built a mount to fit my digital SLR to the port, used a long cable shutter release and routed the video output to a PDA mounted near the panel so I could see what I was shooting.... but, that's a different story.

A few years later, the opportunity for four bombing presented itself... and I already had a port!! Some PVC pipe and plumbing adapters from the hardware store and I had a ready-made flour-bombing set up. Turns out that this location and my plumbing puts the port under slight vacuum so no problem with exhaust fumes (although a rubber sewer pipe cap was rigged to the top of the PVC pipe just to be safe and to cut down on the noise). I found a black plastic reducer fitting that nicely fits the hole in the skin and attaches with screws into the recessed nutplates. It sticks out slightly into the slipstream, which may help account for the vacuum (venturi effect). And with a bit of sanding, it mates nicely with a 3.25" OD X 28" long piece of PVC pipe that can be inserted from inside the airplane.. I found that I could load the bomb tube up with a dozen separately bagged flour bags and rigged a release consisting of a U-shaped wire with the ends extending through parallel holes near the base of the tube and with a piece of cord attached to the U-end as a release cord. To keep the flour (+ some sand for extra weight and accuracy) from working their way out, I use a circular piece of cardboard at the bottom of the load, immediately above the pins.

If someone could tell me how to post some photos, I will do so.

Cheers, John P.

Here's the Pics of John's Installation:

















NickAir 01-01-2012 04:32 AM

How about using the hard points under the wings where the tie downs are. Plenty strong enough. W/elec. solenoid release systems you could have both sides available for drops. Also, storage pods for bear spray, in Alaska.

LynolA 01-03-2012 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpallist (Post 611333)
An interesting discussion. Seven years ago I constructed a camera port in the baggage floor behind the copilot's seat in my RV-6... it is a standard 4" Van's type inspection port hole in the skin with backing plate and aligned with an identical 4" hole in the baggage floor skin... both with cover plates which attach with screws and nutplates. (When in use, I made a clear lexan coverplate for the outer hole to shoot through). The camera port worked great: I built a mount to fit my digital SLR to the port, used a long cable shutter release and routed the video output to a PDA mounted near the panel so I could see what I was shooting.... but, that's a different story.

A few years later, the opportunity for four bombing presented itself... and I already had a port!! Some PVC pipe and plumbing adapters from the hardware store and I had a ready-made flour-bombing set up. Turns out that this location and my plumbing puts the port under slight vacuum so no problem with exhaust fumes (although a rubber sewer pipe cap was rigged to the top of the PVC pipe just to be safe and to cut down on the noise). I found a black plastic reducer fitting that nicely fits the hole in the skin and attaches with screws into the recessed nutplates. It sticks out slightly into the slipstream, which may help account for the vacuum (venturi effect). And with a bit of sanding, it mates nicely with a 3.25" OD X 28" long piece of PVC pipe that can be inserted from inside the airplane.. I found that I could load the bomb tube up with a dozen separately bagged flour bags and rigged a release consisting of a U-shaped wire with the ends extending through parallel holes near the base of the tube and with a piece of cord attached to the U-end as a release cord. To keep the flour (+ some sand for extra weight and accuracy) from working their way out, I use a circular piece of cardboard at the bottom of the load, immediately above the pins.

If someone could tell me how to post some photos, I will do so.

Cheers, John P.

... here is John's video hardware pic and comment:
Attached is a low res. photo of the FlyJacket that mates with the old IPAQ's and turns it into a video monitor. Also in the same photo is a DigiSnap, which is an electronic remote control for various digital cameras. Figured these might be of interest if you are wanting to do low-cost aerial photography with an RV.

VCMaine 01-03-2012 12:04 PM

Specs on a flour bomb
 
What is the best bag and weight for a flour bomb? Is there a spec with a max or min, does each contest set its own rule, or is it all an ad hoc exercise - the bigger the better? If you are mixing flour and sand (sand for deadweight), what volume ratio? Sand may be somewhat cheaper, maybe, but why not just a bigger bag and more flour? What's the story, you bomber pilots?

Capflyer 01-03-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCMaine (Post 612782)
What is the best bag and weight for a flour bomb? Is there a spec with a max or min, does each contest set its own rule, or is it all an ad hoc exercise - the bigger the better? If you are mixing flour and sand (sand for deadweight), what volume ratio? Sand may be somewhat cheaper, maybe, but why not just a bigger bag and more flour? What's the story, you bomber pilots?

I would think flour is better because it blows away in the wind where sand will require a more intensive cleanup.

I've been contemplating this for the last couple of years and my best thought would be to fashion a fiberglass pod that would attach to the underside of the wing screwed into the platenuts that hold one of the inspection plates. The door would be spring loaded and use an RC servo which can be remotely triggered from the cockpit or even a hidden buddy on the ground. Figure one per wing gives you two drops per flight or even a single unit with two doors so you only need one servo. Each unit is self contained with the servo so you just remove them when after you've won the contest.

Mark12A 01-03-2012 01:48 PM

Bomb Bay for Flour Bombs...
 
I can't help thinking that someplace there is some dedicated VAF member, just outside the edge of completely sane, working on a gatling paintball gun geared to shoot through the prop.

RV8R999 01-03-2012 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capflyer (Post 612789)
RC servo which can be remotely triggered from the cockpit or even a hidden buddy on the ground.

Just make sure your buddy is a grad of FAC(A) school :)

Tom Martin 01-03-2012 02:33 PM

I asked an airforce friend for some insights in how I should know when to release my pumpkin; taking into account altitude, wind direction and speed. He stated that in the absence of the current pumpkin ballistics tables he would not be of much help!

LynolA 01-04-2012 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCMaine (Post 612782)
What is the best bag and weight for a flour bomb? Is there a spec with a max or min, does each contest set its own rule, or is it all an ad hoc exercise - the bigger the better? If you are mixing flour and sand (sand for deadweight), what volume ratio? Sand may be somewhat cheaper, maybe, but why not just a bigger bag and more flour? What's the story, you bomber pilots?

I cannot find an 'official' flour bomb specification. However, when we did it last year, it was a simple brown paper lunch sack with about 2 cups of flour inside. Wrap the excess bag material on around the flour lump and secure with a piece of masking tape. Mark the bag with a Sharpie with the pilot's handle (name) so when the ground crew measures the distance from the center of the target to the point of impact, they know who gets the credit. Pilots fly over the target at a pre-arranged altitude, typically between 500 and 1000 feet AGL. Low wing airplanes are at an obvious disadvantage, unless additional measures are taken, hence, this thread.

GusBiz 01-04-2012 05:16 AM

darn google
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Martin (Post 612848)
..... He stated that in the absence of the current pumpkin ballistics tables he would not be of much help!

was about to look for something else on VAF but now have an overwhelming urge to google "pumpkin Ballistics Tables"....

.... be right back

Mike S 01-04-2012 10:05 AM

This might help.

http://science.discovery.com/videos/...r-cannons.html

Rick S. 01-04-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexPeterson (Post 611701)
Ah, yes, DHS probably has most of us on this forum on their lists for numerous reasons...

And some of us even work for DHS:D

N24YW 01-04-2012 08:41 PM

Short Video
 
I added short vidoe of bomb door operation

http://s730.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=MVI_2161.mp4

Jim Knight
Burlington Iowa
RV-6

gmpaul 01-04-2012 08:57 PM

Put the flower in Styrofoam cups works much better than paper sacks.
G.P.

fatherson 01-05-2012 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N24YW (Post 613458)
I added short vidoe of bomb door operation

Hey, Jim! Didn't you say earlier this was a main gear inspection window, or some such? ;)

--
Stephen

p.s. cool fab on that mechanism. And the vid really shows it off. Nice work!

zilik 01-05-2012 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N24YW (Post 613458)
I added short vidoe of bomb door operation

http://s730.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=MVI_2161.mp4

Now that's just to cool. :)

LynolA 01-27-2012 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N24YW (Post 611026)


Jim Knight
Burlington Iowa
RV 6 500 hours

Jim, Where did you find the matched gears/mechanics for this configuration? Were these 'recycled' from a different device?

Nihon_Ni 03-16-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynolA (Post 613058)
I cannot find an 'official' flour bomb specification. However, when we did it last year, it was a simple brown paper lunch sack with about 2 cups of flour inside. Wrap the excess bag material on around the flour lump and secure with a piece of masking tape. Mark the bag with a Sharpie with the pilot's handle (name) so when the ground crew measures the distance from the center of the target to the point of impact, they know who gets the credit. Pilots fly over the target at a pre-arranged altitude, typically between 500 and 1000 feet AGL. Low wing airplanes are at an obvious disadvantage, unless additional measures are taken, hence, this thread.

I'm wondering if you could put a plexi window in the cockpit floor of an -8, just big enough to sight a target on a bomb run. Then I could fashion one (or two) bombays in the cargo section and be able to tar (flour) and feather (TP) all "enemy bases" near my home. If the plexi proves to be too difficult (most likely will, although I haven't looked at the cockpit plans yet) I guess I'll just have to perfect the "pop" maneuver.

Oh, what fun awaits...:cool:

NickAir 03-16-2012 01:05 PM

Exhaust consideration
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihon_Ni (Post 640203)
I'm wondering if you could put a plexi window in the cockpit floor of an -8, just big enough to sight a target on a bomb run. Then I could fashion one (or two) bombays in the cargo section and be able to tar (flour) and feather (TP) all "enemy bases" near my home. If the plexi proves to be too difficult (most likely will, although I haven't looked at the cockpit plans yet) I guess I'll just have to perfect the "pop" maneuver.

Oh, what fun awaits...:cool:

Just a thought on exhaust:
Exhaust may be a consideration (with plexiglas) & (carbon monoxide) at the front floor of an RV8.

walkman 03-16-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N941WR (Post 610703)
I have given this much thought over the years but haven't tried building anything.

My thought was a "bomb rack" that could attached to the tiedown hard point and use some type of relay to drop the flower sack (Or pumpkin) and would be removable.

My thinking is that you will have to limit your top speed to keep from ripping the sack open.

I build a 5 tube rocket launcher for Estes D series single stage rockets that mounted there. Never had the guts to try it

walkman 03-16-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC10Chief (Post 610933)
Whatever you do, go all out! Drop an entire sack of flour! :cool:

Yeah, I was always disappointed at the Grumman fly-ins. Our Safety Nazi (some here will remember Ron fondly) would only approve like a half cup of flour in a zip lock freezer bag. No way is that gonna break.


On related note, I need to design a Norden sight for an RV-6 :-D

Mike S 03-16-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkman (Post 640336)
I build a 5 tube rocket launcher for Estes D series single stage rockets that mounted there. Never had the guts to try it

I had a pair of wingtip mounted Estes T series rockets on a Sig Kougar-----fun:D

roadrunner20 03-16-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N24YW (Post 613458)
I added short vidoe of bomb door operation

http://s730.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=MVI_2161.mp4

Jim Knight
Burlington Iowa
RV-6

Wow, that is so cool. I like it.:D
This really gets the wheels turning.

Our formation group fly high cover in the Key West Independence Day celebration for the open cockpit planes that bomb the Navy with TP.
With this, we could actually participate. At high cover position, we'd see the streaming TP from above and are always envious of those guys.

humptybump 03-16-2012 06:42 PM

7B3 has a flour bomb contest every year. The bombs are 1lb of flour in a small paper lunch bag the the top of the bag wrapped around and sealed with masking tape. From talking with "those in the know" from both Owls Head Air museum and Rhinbeck, this is "a standard bomb". J-3's are the preferred platform.

However, that bomb door is so cool!

panhandler1956 03-16-2012 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkman (Post 640336)
I build a 5 tube rocket launcher for Estes D series single stage rockets that mounted there. Never had the guts to try it

I have thought about doing this too! I think it would be cool even if just cosmetic - would be fun to drop into a fly-in with external stores...

NickAir 03-17-2012 12:37 AM

Flour Drop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler1956 (Post 640400)
I have thought about doing this too! I think it would be cool even if just cosmetic - would be fun to drop into a fly-in with external stores...

Just a thought:
Considered a flour drop unit w/ solenoid release, (attached to the wing tie down hard point.

mikerkba 06-06-2020 05:00 PM

old video
 
The link to the toilet paper drop bay (posted in 2012) has expired. Any happen to have the downloaded video or a current link, perhaps?

Ralph Inkster 06-06-2020 06:24 PM

fun to read this old thread.... & remember
 
Many years ago, I attended (twice actually) an annual "community fly-in /show & shine / drag race weekend", at an undisclosed airport, in an undisclosed NW state. Big local crowds attended and was covered by local media. The finale event of the weekend was the 'bomb' drop event, The idea was that participants would pass over twice, first run at 1000ft, second run at 500ft and try to hit an old car in the mid field. The ordinance was a 10 pin bowling ball... The story was- that nobody ever hit that old car in all the years the event was held. Many tactics were employed from Stuka type approaches to slow / side slip out the door drops, of course, high wing planes were best suited to enter.
There was a Waco that participated and had a novel bomb mechanism rigged to the aft fuselage consisting of rope webbing slings which could be released individually. Was hilarious watching the old Waco taxi out from the ramp as the twin bomb load swayed like other thangs that dangle.

vgb 06-06-2020 06:31 PM

tp
 
I miss chasing TP

Gash 06-06-2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

I miss chasing TP
Just go to Costco, everybody's doing it there.


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