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Andy, my thoughts were, I don't much care what happens to the airframe once I commit to pupping the canopy, cause, lord willing, I ain't staying with that broke sucker longer than it takes me to pop the harness and wave fairwell. LOL. Only way I am parting company is if I am on fire, or if I am missing critical parts for continued flight. So meh, canopy induced tail crunch is kinda moot at that point.
I like this pin idea. I was thinking about the issue over breakfast, discussing it with some other pilots. I had hit upon a pin/wire/D-ring idea -- complicated, but assured to retain the canopy under negative loads and if you somehow managed to open the thing in flight an inch, which seems unlikely considering how much it DOES NOT want to open, you'd still have positive attachement. I like having something actually retaining the canopy until I decide otherwise. Having said that, this pin idea looks very tempting. Simplicity itself. So, reading the comments, it appears a number of you remove the pins after latching the canopy and trust it to remain in place under G-loads. Seems sound, but I might work something similar by removing one pin and D-ringing the remaining pin or dummy cording it to the canopy latch. Convince me its safe to remove both. Seems counter intuitive...but considering how much this lid wants to remain closed, maybe I am over thinking it? |
Oh, and before I forget, someone said something about having a plan. This really is critical. The headset is a PERFECT example. If you do not remove your headset and toss it aside you can guarantee it will foul your departure. The leads are not just going to rip free.
Which brings up one more point. Have a hold of that chute D ring BEFORE you exit. It seems like the simplest thing to find, but by all accounts, if it is not in your hand when you jump, you are going to spend a LOT of time fanning your body trying to find that sucker! One of my best friends was a jump master and he has "hilarious" stories of students "playing the accordian" in free fall trying to find the rip cord. And those jumps were for FUN, with plenty of altitude and no surprises. We don't have that luxury. |
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Hi Scott...
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In an RV-7/8, the chance of needing to bail out are very small - we have thousands of examples flying, doing formation / aeros etc., and an incredibly small number where a chute would have made a difference. Any "modification" to add safety e.g. these Pip-Pins then removed for flight, should be analysed to see if it clearly adds safety - not introduce new hazards such you end up less safe than you started. I have not seen enough to make that judgement call yet... useful info coming through here, but I am not yet convinced about removing these Pip-Pins for flight. Andy |
Andy, I got what you were saying. Thanks. :) I was coming at it from the other angle. I am actually with you on the pin issue. I am trying to wrap my head around removing them BEFORE the need. Not sure I am comfortable with that. I see it kind of like the Master Switch issue. Once in your lifetime, or twice, or three times if you are just thick like ME, you will leave it ON. Seems a given that once in your lifetime, you will forget to replace the pins before opening the canopy while taxiing. High heat day, you land, slide the canopy back to get some releif...DOH! No thanks! lol.
Hence my thoughts on trying to come up with an active release system that would combine pins AND a pull ring. I WANT to be able to pull something to actively release during an actual emergency. Not in prep for one. This conversation is all on the PREP side. Trying to hash out whats required. As far as ever needing it? Irrelevent. I don't need a 16 round magazine to put down an armed burgler, but I am darn tootin happy to have one when I discover he brought three friends!!! :D |
While I agree with Andy completely about not adding a step that makes you more susceptible to another failure, I have not found the canopy handle (at least in my airplane) easy to unlock - it is an over-center latch device that can't really be bumped. Coupled with the known reports that the canopy on an -8 is pushed CLOSED (forward) by aeroloads, I am not worried about it opening accidentally even if the latch were unlatched.
But...I should also note that I haven't pulled those pins since Phase 1 testing, because I don't routinely wear a chute for the kind of Acro I fly on a daily basis. Needing to bail out due to a structural failure in an RV is an EXTREMELY remote possibility (yup, they are that strong). If you are wearing a chute for the event of a fire, then of course, you probably need to plan for this on every flight, and you might want to build a more sophisticated mechanism for pulling the pins. As for forgetting to put the pins back in before opening the canopy, this is a complete non-event - if you use the pins in place of the bolts that hold the roller support brackets in to the frame. Gravity holds the frame on the roller mounts. If you use the pins in place of the roller AXEL bolts, it would be a mess, but I certainly don't advocate that....(actually, I don't know how you'd do that). Just my thoughts, and Andy is right - make sure you think through the process and don't create larger risks than you are preventing! Paul |
I have been reading this thread and not said much. I am working on a group buy for the Strong 304 and the 311 models. If you are interested in purchasing an emergency parachute, read below and send me a PM.
Must purchase 5 or more: Strong model 311 (wedge back) $1875 each Strong model 304 (seat type) $1800 each |
Thanks for the clarification Paul. Good to know you can taxi with the pins out!
As the topic has evolved, let me clarify on the WHY of using a chute in my case, and why I started the post, just so there is no confusion for those joining the post and thinking it?s about any perceived issue with the RV design. One, the stated original intent of the post, was to find a proper, comfortable chute that will allow expedient egress while providing comfort for extended flights. Back versus Seat. Brands. Configurations within styles, wedge versus back, thin seat versus bottom heavy seat. That was my intent. Subject Two, canopy release, which the post has evolved toward -- in MY case, has less to do with aerobatics (although I do those) and everything to do with tight, parade or demonstration type formation flying, which I have done for some time and hope to get into at a deeper level, with an ever increasing number of ships. I have a fair amount of faith in the aircraft design. So please don?t anyone assume otherwise. Should someone boogger up a cross-under during a formation display and chew my tail off, or crush a wing due to a botched rejoin, I want to be able to immediately vacate the office. I trust my wing mates and I fly with FAST certified wingmen or prior military ego-jockeys, but I believe completely in Reagan?s adage, TRUST, BUT VERIFY. LoL. In this case, I want to verify that should the unthinkable happen, I?ve done thunk about it and am prepared with a proper chute and a quick canopy release mechanism. AX-O, Just so you know, I found one chute dealer selling the Strong 304 with the military C-9 chute (28 Foot) for $1600, in case anyone wants to go that route. See if he can price out those as well for the group. It would be interesting to see if they?d come down to $1400!! Your group price on the Strong 304 with the LoPo chute (26 foot) is outstanding, I may want in, if I go with a seat pack. I am still trying to get a weight on the C-9 equipped 304. I believe it may come in around 18 to 19 pounds, which maybe be heavier than I or others want. I think the LoPo style chute is around 16 to 17 pounds?? The C-9 represents a massive $$ savings from the standard 304/LoPo chute. And it?s a military grade chute with no life limit. But it?s definitely heavier. And will sit taller on the floor. Decisions, decisions! |
Until the advent of the ejection seat, pretty much all tactical aircraft sported seat packed chutes. Like they told me a long time ago, you've got to practice. When the airplane is out of control and headed for the ground is not the time to work out the details. Also, if you get a seat pack chute, let me know how they feel to sit on for a while.
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What's your assessment of the 304 and 311? Had a chance to fly with them yet? |
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