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-   -   Parachute Selection Question (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=77883)

Andy Hill 10-18-2011 03:24 PM

Scott...

Thanks for that... it seems the "canopy wants to close" is far more significant than I had thought :(

The danger with a "canopy jettison" is if it goes unintentionally, will it take the tail off? Or just leave aircraft unflyable? There was a Machetti SF260 over here lost the canopy recently, and only just managed a forced landing - almost lost control.

Andy

panhandler1956 10-18-2011 03:58 PM

Thread creep (not parachute info)
 
In regards to canopy jettison, here is what I have. I believe I saw this idea on the forum in the past. I have T-pins where the AN bolts go on the rollers.
The procedure is:

pull the T-pins (both of them)
slide (may force is a better word) the canopy back free of the fairing (about an 1.5" on my airplane) and push up hard on the bubble to get it into the slip stream - bye bye.
Better have your seat belts off as who knows what'll happen next....



I believe you could fly with the pins out as the frame is held secure when latched. That would remove a step for egress.

Ironflight 10-18-2011 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler1956 (Post 587418)
I believe you could fly with the pins out as the frame is held secure when latched. That would remove a step for egress.

That is exactly what I do in the -8 (haven't for a long time though) if I am wearing a parachute because I think it might be necessary. Once held forward by the latch, you can pull the pins and be ready to go. I'd not want to try pulling the pins on both sides while tumbling out of control with a broken airframe.

Paul

Tim Fitzpatrick 10-18-2011 06:07 PM

Not timed it
 
Scott,

I have not timed myself because there are so many variables that may come into play that I simply have a procedure for getting out that will hopefully work.

1.Canopy ? open/off (use both hands to get it open and into slip stream, kick a pedal if needed. Side slip may help. If out of control pulling it hard with both hands should get it back particularly with added adrenalin).
2. Harness ? Released (I have a Hooker five point harness which is green. Chute is dark blue so there should be no confusion there)
3. If in a negative ?G? situation ? You are leaving the aircraft, legs optional (The distance and speed with which you leave the cockpit in this situation should not cause to much damage to the lower extremities. It certainly beats the alternative)
4. If positive G -- Use hand holds to pull yourself up and if able stand/squat on seat and aim for mid wing and dive for it (this should keep you clear of the tail. I jumped out of a T-6 once from the back and used this technique to clear the tail. It was a sport jump and the pilot had total control of the aircraft).

I am a small guy (5 foot 7) so being vertically challenged I think gives me a bit of an advantage in getting out. I think the biggest issue is commitment to use the chute if you get in that situation as your comments about Duxford indicate. Also make sure if you are using a seat pack that you fit it properly, which is a little more time consuming than a seat pack. Thanks for starting a great thread and good luck with your choice,

Casey Stewart 10-18-2011 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler1956 (Post 587418)
Better have your seat belts off as who knows what'll happen next....

My dad and I took an egress training course when we purchased our 'chutes. We were taught that the seat belt unlatching is the LAST thing you do. The reasoning behind this is that if you unbuckle the seat belt and the plane, likely in pretty bad shape, does something unexpected, you could easily be thrown around the cockpit into a position where you couldnt finish the egress procedure:eek:. Get the canopy out of the way, plane ready for you to leave, unlatch and get out.

I thought the same as you until after that class.

tadsargent 10-18-2011 08:35 PM

8 and a parachute
 
I removed my seat back and put it in a drawer
Then installed a Mini Softie back pack
Chute. Man is this an improvement
I keep my seat bottom and only needed to
Move the rudder pedals forward a notch for the lumbar support I had created while it was packed
The thickness is the same so I'm not any more forward than
Before. I have a three hour flight this weekend and can report back
On the comfort factor after real evidence of time.

Man is it soft.
Tad Sargent (wearing a chute)
Team RV

donaziza 10-18-2011 10:30 PM

I had exactly the same question a few years back ---How to get out of an RV 8 in an emergency. I took my cues from Paul Dye ( Ironflight), and installed "pip Pins" on my canopy. See panhandler 1956's picture--that's also what I have. You either remove them (and stash them in a safe spot) before takeoff, or you "could"? take them off in flight. If I'm doing acro, they're off before takeoff. I figure if I can unlock the canopy, slide it back just a smidgen, and push up, that canopy is going to be gone instantly. I have a back pack chute. I just measured it and it pushes me forward about 2.5 to 3 inches in my cockpit.

Now I have to pour cold water on the getting out part. I'm 5' 10". The chute puts my knees pretty much under that nice sharp bottom edge of the instrument panel, and then your feet are way up by the rudder pedals. ( Even without the chute, my knees are somewhat under the instument panel). I have visions of no knee caps or even worse, a foot and ankle caught with an airplane out of control with a human ragdoll still attached.

I had an instructor in the Marines who bailed out of a T 28 and never opened his chute. They figured he hit the horizontal stabilizer and the stabilizer on a 28 is a heck of a lot futher back than on an RV 8. Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

I've sat in my 8 with the parachute on and tried to simulate this in my mind. Of course the knees and ankle problem comes to mind. I tried putting my heels on the forward edge of the seat so they would hopfully clear on the way out. What does everyone think of this?

Oh incidentally, someone mentioned one of those little hamer swingy things for busting your canopy? I've got a big hunting knife valcroed inside my fuselage for canopy shattering. (Navy/Marines idea, not mine, but I kept the idea--one guy here on vans airforce said he carried a gun for canopy shattering)

Ironflight 10-18-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaziza (Post 587551)
Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

Well, first I would say that it is good that you have thought your way through the scenario - having a plan is better than NOT having a plan. but if you have enough control of the airplane to do all that....why are you bailing out?! :o

Lots of people have managed to get out of wildly tumbling, broken airframes throughout aviation history. Some have not. Knowing how you plan to force your way out of the cockpit is a good idea, but clearly there will still be an element of risk.

skylor 10-18-2011 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaziza (Post 587551)
Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

So, if you have this kind of control of your aircraft, why would you bail out? (unless it's a fire)

Andy Hill 10-18-2011 11:56 PM

Some interesting comments above...

One concern about the Pip-Pins... especially removing them routinely. All it takes is one knock of the canopy opening handle and you could lose the canopy there and then, and in turn potentially the aircraft.

Factors are of course whether you would lose the canopy (airloads), and if it did go would it clear the tail / cause minimal damage? But they are significant factors when judged against the small probability of needing the chute.

Andy


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