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-   -   Catto 2-blade or 3-blade prop? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=77828)

jbagley 10-16-2011 11:02 AM

Catto 2-blade or 3-blade prop?
 
Decisions decisions... Hoping some of you can weigh in and help me decide. I'm currently flying with a wood 2-bladed sensenich and reasonably happy with the performance. But, faster is better and it rains a lot here in Oregon so I have some concern over how the wood prop will hold up over time.

3-blade catto:
+ more ground clearance
+ looks better
+ smoother (subjective)
- more expensive
- harder to remove cowling

2-blade catto:
+ faster?
+ lighter
+ cheaper
- less ground clearance
- more vibration?

Or is the 2-blade versus 3-blade question one of those never ending debates?

LifeofReiley 10-16-2011 11:20 AM

I have (2) three blades and (1) two blade I fly with. Three blade IS smoother hands down. Two blade will climb better hands down. If you do the cut out mod/trim to the cowl as in the past RVAtor, the cowl on/off issue goes away for the three blade. And yes, the three blade looks awesome on the plane! :D

Ground clearance with either is not an issue. And as to cost... well in AMU's they're both cheap. :)

Kyle Boatright 10-16-2011 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeofReiley (Post 586571)
If you do the cut out mod/trim to the cowl as in the past RVAtor, the cowl on/off issue goes away for the three blade. :)

Got a link for that? I'm not aware of that mod and find getting the lower cowl on/off to be a PITA.

Thanks,

LifeofReiley 10-16-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright (Post 586572)
Got a link for that? I'm not aware of that mod and find getting the lower cowl on/off to be a PITA.

Thanks,

Let me look it up... should be in the file cabinet. :)

LifeofReiley 10-16-2011 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright (Post 586572)
Got a link for that? I'm not aware of that mod and find getting the lower cowl on/off to be a PITA.

Thanks,

4th issue 2007 page 15, written by Scott McDaniels, head of Van's Prototype Shop... :)

I believe there's another example relating to this issue maybe it was a 2005 issue, I'll dig around a little more.

Vlad 10-16-2011 03:57 PM

Get tree and debate will end James :D

uk_figs 10-17-2011 07:00 AM

another request for copy of the mod
 
Last oil change was the first with the 3 blade catto installed, needed two of us to install the lower cowl. Very interested in a mod that will make it easier.

LifeofReiley 10-17-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uk_figs (Post 586801)
Last oil change was the first with the 3 blade catto installed, needed two of us to install the lower cowl. Very interested in a mod that will make it easier.

I'll scan a copy to your email... :)

be35 10-18-2011 06:30 PM

LifeofReiley - me too? I cannot locate that article and it will come in very handy.
Thanks
Bob

Kyle Boatright 10-18-2011 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be35 (Post 587461)
LifeofReiley - me too? I cannot locate that article and it will come in very handy.
Thanks
Bob

Same here. Even a .pdf by email would be great.

ccrawford 10-18-2011 08:31 PM

I've heard that a 3 blade is better for a 4-cylinder engine because the beats are offset so it feels smoother and is quieter than a 2-blade+4-cylinder that share the same cycle. YMMV.

alpinelakespilot2000 10-18-2011 08:34 PM

One more thing to add to your lists of pros and cons for each
 
It used to be that it took a LOT (read months and months) longer for a 3-blade than a 2-blade. Not sure if that's still true, but you might want to check with Craig if that would be a factor in your decision. It only took 2-3 months for my 2-blade.

David-aviator 10-18-2011 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeofReiley (Post 586860)
I'll scan a copy to your email... :)

Would you send a copy please. I've saved lots of RVators but not that one.

Thanks.

davidd010@earthlink.net

Ant CB 10-18-2011 08:46 PM

I've got a Catto 3 blade on my Pitts S1S (I know, I know... it's not an RV) with a high compression IO-360. I Can't testify to the smoothness change because it's all I've had but the prop looks great and performs really well.

I had it pitched for 3000RPM at 175 kts and it's on the money.

Nickel leading edges look awesome too.

I had mine in 10 weeks to Australia from when I ordered it, although I was grounded so Craig put me up the front of the list somewhere.

MattSR 10-18-2011 08:56 PM

Fancy seeing you here Critchy!

axlr8r 10-18-2011 09:06 PM

Sounds great too
 
I've got a Catto three blade prop on my -8 and I absolutely love it. Smooth as silk.
I get a lot of comments from other RV owners about how sexy it looks too. One unexpected benefit though,is the way it sounds. While I've not heard it myself, everyone tells me that it sounds like a Reno racer. Craig Catto is a neat guy and a great person to work with.
Steve

wfinnell 10-18-2011 10:56 PM

Is one faster...
 
than the other?

smokyray 10-19-2011 10:35 AM

One, Two Three, Four?
 
James,

I get to fly alot of RV prop/engine combinations and compare performance and have tested 9 different props on my RV-4 and RV6X. Alot depends on your budget and the type flying you enjoy.
0-320 the 2 blade Catto, MT and Hertzler provide slightly less climb but are faster in cruise than the three blade Catto and PP. Only Margie Warnke's Three blade Claw is faster than 2 but she is retired. The 3 blade Catto has and still is an absolute work of art and is a bit smoother. However comma, the new Catto 2 blade I am currently testing on my 0-320 is turbine smooth. See previous thread.

0-360: The Catto three blade excels on the 0-360 with excellent performance across the board. If you have lots of $$$ the Hartzell BA C/S is a phenomenal combination on the 0-360. Craigs three blade however will match it in cruise and efficiency above 8000'.

IO-540 The Harmon Rocket excels with the Hartzell HCY "Paddle" (mine had the "D" twist) two blade. The "J" twist blades are optimized at 2300 RPM, the D 2500. Several Rocket guys using the WW three blade report excellent performance. The MT three blade is slightly slower but excellent climb and smoothness. The RV-10 prop of choice is the Hartzell BA two blade in my humble opinion. Tom Martin has a derivative on his F-1 reporting impressive numbers as well.

A long answer to a short question...:)
Smokey

jbagley 10-19-2011 11:37 AM

Thanks all!
 
Thanks for the great replies!

I think i'm pretty sold on the 2-bladed prop because it's cheaper and faster. I'll have to ask Craig if the standard 2-blade he's making now is the same as the one Smokey is testing.

Better acceleration and climb performance is fun. But in reality I don't feel that is a limiting factor for me; as in, either prop will get me into and out of the shortest runways I would consider landing on. I'll trade climb performance for cruise performance every time.

Cheers!

LifeofReiley 10-21-2011 07:10 AM

Been @ the ranch and out of internet touch... send me an email with your email address if you would like a copy of the article. :)

Triumph1974 11-05-2011 07:35 PM

article on cutting cowl for 3 blade prop
 
LifeofReiley ,

Do you mind sending me a copy of that article too? I should be getting in my 3 blade Catto prop next week and will be able to start the cowl trimming soon!

Thanks,
Paul

FORANE 11-06-2011 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbagley (Post 586569)
Decisions decisions... Hoping some of you can weigh in and help me decide. I'm currently flying with a wood 2-bladed sensenich and reasonably happy with the performance. But, faster is better and it rains a lot here in Oregon so I have some concern over how the wood prop will hold up over time.

3-blade catto:
+ more ground clearance
+ looks better
+ smoother (subjective)
- more expensive
- harder to remove cowling

2-blade catto:
+ faster?
+ lighter
+ cheaper
- less ground clearance
- more vibration?

Or is the 2-blade versus 3-blade question one of those never ending debates?

Hello

I am a lancair driver but guess my input is welcome.
I put a 3 blade catto on my lancair 235/320. Loved the prop for smoothness, beautiful, climb much better than my prior 2 blade wood prop, cruise better than my prior wood prop too. I was led to believe from what I read on the catto prop website that I could run it in the rain. The leading edge tape would protect it at WOT in the rain WHERE YOU COULD KEEP THE TAPE ON THE LEADING EDGE. I could not get the tape to adhere to the tip though. I would upload an image of the damage I sustained to mine after just 1 flight but cannot seem to get the upload image button to work. Unfortunately if you are planning on running in the rain, I would look for a prop which has metal leading edge. I now run a MT prop with metal leading edge because the catto just would not hold up to the flying in the rain. I understand craig recently added a leading edge nickel. With the nickel I would say he would have one of the best props out there for planes such as ours. Without the nickel, I would not buy another catto prop unless I intended to use it solely in dry air.

smokyray 11-06-2011 02:38 PM

Rain, rain go away...
 
JB/LOR,

My original Catto 2 blade was subjected to many threats over 10 years including grass, gravel, mud, sandy strips and lots of rain. I found out after flying through rain at 2400 RPM that the prop chipped easily and paint was removed. I called Craig and as always was very helpful.

I experimented with "prop guard" tape back then and it did work with the exception noted above but I lost about 1% performance. I experimented and found the TEAM propeller tape to be even better than PG at half the cost.

My current newly designed 2 blade nickel LE Catto is a wonderful prop and performs exceedingly well. However, I have already chipped the inboard leading edge (where the nickel ends) in light rain. My previous MT has a black rubber tape strip there for protection. Craig might take a note from the Whirlwind adjustable design and make his nickel leading edge full length. http://www.whirlwindpropellers.com/g..._lycoming.html

Overall, the Catto 2 blade is an excellent prop value and far exceeds anything else out there for the price.

Smokey

FORANE 11-06-2011 03:19 PM

Ray

You should have no problem getting the propguard or other tape of your choice to adhere that far inbound. My MTV prop does have the black rubberish moulding you described inboard of the metal leading edge. Back when I was running the catto prop I too experimented with various tapes and ended up using a black 3M tape bought from aircraft spruce. I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was 8672. While it would not hold outboard, it did very well inboard of the nickel where you would need it.

Rocket Man 11-06-2011 05:08 PM

2 or 3 blade Catto,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jbagley (Post 586569)
Decisions decisions... Hoping some of you can weigh in and help me decide. I'm currently flying with a wood 2-bladed sensenich and reasonably happy with the performance. But, faster is better and it rains a lot here in Oregon so I have some concern over how the wood prop will hold up over time.

3-blade catto:
+ more ground clearance
+ looks better
+ smoother (subjective)
- more expensive
- harder to remove cowling

2-blade catto:
+ faster?
+ lighter
+ cheaper
- less ground clearance
- more vibration?

Or is the 2-blade versus 3-blade question one of those never ending debates?

2 blade or 3 blade, that is the question. I have had a 2 blade Catto on my RV-6 for seven years/900+ hours and I love it for exactly the positive reasons you cite. Would not consider trading for a three blade prop, but that's just my opinion.

apkp777 11-06-2011 05:39 PM

Personally, I really don't like the look of the 3 blade with the o-320. I don't know which engine you have but the blade thickness is rather slender with the 3 blade on the 320.. I think my 2 blade is awesome. I have no regrets and would do the same again.

8CW 11-07-2011 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeofReiley (Post 586860)
I'll scan a copy to your email... :)

I'd appreciate a copy of that also. Thanks!

LifeofReiley 11-07-2011 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8CW (Post 593332)
I'd appreciate a copy of that also. Thanks!

I just sent a copy to the email addy I had in outlook. :)


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