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Any news from Spruce about this? Still very interested to replace most of the Phillips heads with Torx. Thank you very much for your good lobbying work. |
I'll put in another vote for NAS1801 hex head screws. I've been using NAS1801-08-8 as direct replacements for the Van's-supplied AN515-8R8 phillips screws. Since they are structural they are probably overkill, and they are more expensive, but 100 still only cost me $15.20 at ACS. I prefer to use a 1/4" nut driver (obviously) on ,them, but the heads seem to hold up better to a phillips screwdriver.
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Is this correct....
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Don |
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In any case, it's obvious when you take a phillips screwdriver to them. I use good screwdrivers- SnapOn, Wiha, etc- and toss them when they get rounded. In my experience it's pretty easy to destroy an AN515 screw even with a fresh screwdriver. So far, the NAS1801 screws seem more resistant. |
Update
I received a private message over the weekend asking about the Torx head screws so I thought I'd post an update to the forum. ACS is not willing to move forward with them so I spoke with Tom at GAHco and he was receptive. Tom said that it's going to "take some time" but he is working on it and he'll let us know when they are available.
I also spoke to Tom about post numbers 38-45 in this string complaining about his web site (an opinion I share). He was very open to the criticism and said that they are in the process of redesigning their web site. Stay tuned! |
Thanks Jake and Tom
I currently have the microfasters brand 6-lobe stainless screws in lots of places. The aluminum-contact places I can think of off hand are floor pan, seat pan, baggage shelves, instrument panel, wing root fairings, wing tips, inspection covers.
The parts are painted, and they don't normally get wet. We use stainless fasteners into 6061 aluminum in salt water exposure on sailboats all the time. Of course, 6061 is much more corrosion resistant than 2024, but we do sometimes see some galvanic corrosion. I'm starting to take some of the concern for galvanic corrosion to heart. So, when/if the zinc-plated AN-equivalents with 6-lobe heads show up, I'm all in. Keep us posted. |
Better material is worth it.
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The softer fasteners performance is limited, these like (AN515/MS35206 &7), (AN507/MS24693) are very soft fasteners, 60 to 80 Ksi The next better is the 125 ksi (min) group. Such as (AN509/MS24694 & MS27039) The best and still reasonable valued are the 160-180 Ksi, such as most NAS Hex Bolts and NAS517 Countersunk heads that look like AN509's. Also in this group are NAS601'S 602'S and 603'S. These look like the AN515'S but are three times as strong. And yes we will be investigating the Torx "registered trademark" or similar type of drive for the higher alloy fasteners. It is the design and alloy that makes these so rugged and functional. I myself have used very little of the screws that came with my kit.;) |
Just Googling . . . .
Is that a word . . well has anyone checked out /www.aaronssixlobescrews.com ? There are apparently high strength torx, 100 deg available down to #6, but not 4-40. I will call tomorrow. Please post if this is a dead end.
Update: I called the number and the answering machine greeting was not professional, i checked the Better Business Bureau link and they have a long list of complaints, several unresolved. For humor, they apparently rent TV's and furniture (not that there is anything wrong with that). I will scratch this source from potential list. GO SPRUCE !! |
i use torx from
Microfasteners everywhere i remove screws frequently. W ish GACH could source steel 100 deg. torxs screws... Not striped one yet...
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For what it's worth, I really like Tom's catalog and web site - it's just the search function that is so difficult to use. Everything is there, just can't find it..... Still looking for some good 8/32 torx. |
Take time to read Post 50
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http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...4&postcount=50 |
I'm curious why so many have problems with philips type of screws for their aircraft. I've got the regular AN cadmium plated steel ones as well as SS ones on my plane. In 10+ years and as many annuals, I've maybe replaced a couple dozen of them. Get a decent driver (with replaceable bits) and you really won't have many damaged. As has been discussed several times in the past, the torx type of screws have a much thinner cross section between the conical exterior and the lobed drive socket. This is why they are not the best for use in structural parts, like attaching fuel tanks.
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Torx sockets are parallel sided and resist camming out by design. Why the phillips head wasn't designed that way as well continues to surprise me. That there have been a dozen or more different designs for newfangled phillips bits that all claim to prevent camming out and stripped heads suggests to me that the problem is more than just in our minds. |
Could be worse... could be slotted screws, which if I were King would be illegal to manufacture, own, or use.:mad:
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Found this thread and i know its old, but didnt find the discussed torx on your site. Did you decide against stocking torx cads? |
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Aarons is a combiner and shipper for twenty or thirty little fastener suppliers in the SC aviation heart land. I get Torx screws from them and they eventually arrive and have always been what I ordered. Customer service is non existent and always specify USPS Priority mail or they will send them UPS 3 day which can be expensive. If you don't order at least 100 of any one part number you will get screwed. Also the coatings affect the cost. With SS, black and waxed is a good choice. They do have 4-40 100 degree Torx screws. IMO Torx are the only way to go if multiple future removals is anticipated. A quality Torx driver bit is also essential, Snap On sells them on line for four bucks a piece. |
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Dissimilar metal contact is always a problem and water makes it worse. Since aluminum fasteners are a non starter you make the best alternative choices. SS is a good start, SS coated and waxed is better, there are better coatings available but the cost goes up. The retention features of nut plates does not help the problem because it likes to wipe/scrape off the coating we just spent a lot of money for, which brings me the the issue of Aames prices.
Below is a copy of my last invoice from them for 6-32 and 8 32 x .500 SS coated and waxed. Average cost about $.45 each in quantities of 100. Torx is expensive always (China does not make them yet) SS is always double or triple the cost depending on grade, Coatings are always an added cost and waxing is more still. Are they worth $.45 each? Ask someone that tried to drill out a stripped Phillips head screw without damaging the pieces being screwed together. I'm not promoting a senseless argument about value, it always in the mind of the beholder (screwer) :D I have no more to say on this topic. Thank you for your order. ========== GENERAL INFORMATION ========== Company: Aames General Store, Inc. Email: Sales@AamesGeneralStore.com Phone: (714) 838-3575 Order date: 8/21/2017 ========== ORDER INFORMATION ========== Payment By: Visa 4XXXXXXXXXXX2955 Status: APPROVED - 021839 Purchase Order: 794 Order: OnlineOrder_00025253 Product Name: Qty. 100-#6-32 x 1/2, MS Machine Screws, Torx Socket Drive, Flat Head, 18-8 Stainless Steel, Black Oxide & Waxed, RoHS Compliant, Torx Socket T-10 Driver, 82 Degrees Countersink, Machine Screw, Full Thread, DIN 965 Type Item#: 7040TF2553 Unit Price: $42.28 Quantity: 1 Shipping Method: USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box Product Name: Qty. 100-#8-32 x 1/2, CS Machine Screws, Torx Socket Drive, Button Head, 18-8 Stainless Steel, Black Oxide & Waxed, RoHS Compliant, Torx Socket T-15 Driver, Cap Screw, Full Thread Item#: 7041TF2585 Unit Price: $47.43 Quantity: 1 Shipping Method: USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box Shipping & Handling: $14.10 Grand Total: $103.81 Special Order Instructions Please ship in USPS small flat rate box. |
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Snap on Wobble Driver
I had the good fortune of getting this advice/recrecommendation from a fellow RV'er. Buy Wobble head driver bits from Snap On. They cost about $6.00 each and are a very handy addition to your screwdriver. These bits have about a 15 degree movement side to side. This enables the user to drive or remove screws that need a slightly off center driving position ( when not able to get the tool squared to the screw). I won't travel without one.
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I sent them a note asking if 6-32 100 degree are available as well as a request for an RA. Now we will see how easy they are to deal with on returns :) |
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Microfastener lists them all the way down to 2-56. For their prices the source has to be China so all bets are off on quality. That's what I like about aames, you get aviation quality fasteners-at a ridiculously high price. However, usually what we are securing with a 6-32 screw is not life endangering if a failure occurs. From my experience with a Chinese fastener the failure will come with the original tightening, if at all. Usually the problem will be the Torx broached six point hole will strip out. In that case we are right back where we were with the Phillips :confused:
http://www.microfasteners.com/fcmxs0...stainless.html |
Thanks for the link to Microfasteners. Unfortunately they don't seem to have #8 screws longer than 1/2 inch. Was hoping to go with torx or allen heads to attach the capacitive plates inside my tanks, but those need to be at least 8R14. The search continues...
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McMaster Carr
https://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-hea...crews/=19l2kub I like the black oxide ones. Ed Holyoke |
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Socket head screws
Somebody was asking about socket head screws. The link I posted was right to that page. McMaster is also a good source for wobble Allen driver bits.
I get my cad plated 100 degree countersunk screws from ACS and live with the Phillips head. Once they show any wear at all, I throw them away. Ed Holyoke |
I'm guessing that no one has been able to source 100 degree, flush head, torx fasteners for structural use, such as the fuel tank and inspection panels yet, have they?
I have browsed the micro fasteners website, but they are stainless screws, which are a bit softer than the AN screws Van's supplies. I am not sure I want my fuel tanks held on with them. McMaster only has 82 degree screws :-( |
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