I'll be ok then... only building one tank (and wing) at a time due to space constraints. Thanks!

Just like my sister who rocks at cake decorating ... the parchment cone is an awesome idea. Are proseal "roses" and other flowers considered acceptable practice?

Never done any cake decorating.... How do you use that thing? Squeeze from the top?

Dave

parchment paper application
 

Roll a square of parchment paper into a cone with a tight apex and a wider (3-4") top; a paper clip can hold this shape while loading it with icing/proseal. I'll leave it to an expert to drill, deburr, and cleco paper... Allow room at the top to seal the cone.

Remove paper clip/cleco, fold top of the cone over the contents, and keep folding down, pushing the contents toward the apex. Think of rolling a tube of toothpaste from the closed end toward the opening.

If required, snip off the apex until it's large enough to dispense the required bead.

Rosettes, as well as decorative beads of proseal, can be made by cutting the apex into a scalloped edge before dispensing.

YMMV.

RV-10 J Channel
 

I am preparing to start prosealing my tanks and plan to use the method outlined by Rick in this thread, but a difference between the tanks in the -6 or -8 and the -10 is the addition of a J-channel in the tanks for added stability. This appears to pose an additional challenge of putting a filet on the J-channel and attempting to slide it into location without making a huge proseal mess. Has anyone else with a -10 tried this method? What were your results? Any tips? Thanks.

Great Thread But?
 

I have half a quart of proseal left, that has been kept in the refrigerator and is almost 3 year old now. It looks good. Any thought about using it, or do I need a new batch to a small tank job?

I have the same question. I have half a can of 5 year old and 8 year old flamemaster (proseal). The 8 year is a little thicker and would be harder to mix up. Both have been in the shop fridge for years and occasionally used lately. I take it out of the fridge the day before to allow it to come up to room temp and soften. So far I have only used this "old stuff" as a non critical adhesive and I kept the leftovers to see how well it cures. Turns out it cures just like I remember it did when it was new. SO...other than being a little stiffer to mix up, why the relatively short expiry date on the can? Can this 5 year old stuff be used to seal the inboard tank covers, or do I need to order another can? If it cures, it cures. Or is there something I'm missing here? Remember is has been in the fridge all this time.

Bevan

I would think that you could thin it with a little MEK, but I have no experience. Surely the MEK would evaporate. It is just being used as a vehicle to get the proseal mixed well, and in place. Hope some of the gurus pipe in here!!

Tom

Has anyone tried thinning proseal??

Why not mix up a very small amount and let it cure, as a test? If it cures OK, it's probably OK to use. It's safest to use fresh ProSeal, but I've used out of date stuff that was kept in the refrigerator with good results. Your mileage may vary.

Regarding thinning ProSeal, many on this list report good results using MEK. I've used it myself. However, the "proper" thinner is Toluene [aka Toluol]. I generally use "wash grade" Lacquer thinner, as it's about 92% to 95% Toluene. Check the ingredients on any can of lacquer thinner, as the components can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Wash grade lacquer thinner is generally cheaper and is really intended for cleaning, not painting. I buy it at the local auto paint supply store.
Toluene is what the manufacturer uses.
Charlie

I used toluene, worked great and made it wayyyyy easier to work with. I was able to get it from a local shirwin Williams, but the had to order it. Cost me about $20 IIFC.

I've bought Toluene at ACE hardware, and it also seems Sherwin Williams sells it -

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home.../toluene-r2k1/

Used to use MEK to thin PS890 B1/2 and B2 enough to paint it on with an artist's brush. After changing divisions within the company (one where there was no MEK), I used acetone to do the same thing.

This was NOT for sealing fuel tanks or any other critical sealant job, just sealing external hardware (specifically, helicopter rotor head hardware) for corrosion prevention. If you really want proseal that's thin enough to brush on like paint, for a critical job like fuel tank sealing, you need PS890 A1/2 or A2.

PS890 Class A data sheet

source

Thanks
 

I just read all 92 posts on this topic. Thank you Rick and everyone else for the great breakdown. I feel 100% confident on starting my tanks this week. I love this site!!!

I got tired of searching for this thread every now and then, so I have made it a "sticky".

Just seems right that a thread about porseal be sticky:rolleyes:

Thanks, Mike. I just spit my morning coffee all over my iPad. Of course, it's black and thick as . . . well . . . you know. You just caught me of guard I guess. :-)

p.s. good call on the thread: it's one of my top-10s.

--
Stephen

Having trouble shooting rivets wet. Should i just be putting a dab in the hole and keeping the tail of the rivet clean until after bucking? Right now i have the stuff all over the rivet and the bucking bar goes bizerk! Also, what bucking bar works best in a tank?

Thank you to all who have added to this thread. i would be lost without it.

I too used this thread as my guide to sealing my tanks. It is slow tedious work, but mine came out leak free. I dabbed the dimple full of proseal and then inserted a rivet. I didn't have any trouble bucking the wet rivets. I used a tungsten bucking bar. Maybe your gun pressure is too high?

Proseal rivets
 

Same here. I did have to wipe off the surface of the tungsten bar occasionally.18-20 psi on my Sioux 3x.

Same here, I didn't really have any issues with the bucking bar. I did, however, have issues with the mushroom set sliding around. I'd been just using a plain mushroom set up to that point, but I bought one of the ones with the rubber ring for the tanks, and it worked much, much better.

This is one thing (setting wet rivets) where a helper can make a HUGE difference: two hands holding/stabilizing the rivet gun and two hands holding/stabilizing the bucking bar. I also second the comment about the air pressure. Too low and you work-harden the rivet, but too high and you have control problems (esp. if solo).

I remember the tanks being very messy work, and making liberal use of shop towels, lint-free rags, and MEK to keep the tools (and everything else!) clean.

Proseal Solutions
 

Scott,
If you put a generous coat of proseal on the ribs before you cleco them to the fuel tank skin, there should be no reason to put proseal on each individual rivet. After all my ribs were finally in, I added an additional layer of proseal on the buck tails. I agree that a tungsten bucking bar works best. I prefer old cotton t-shirts though as shop rags tend to leave too much lint behind.

One thing, and this is very important, DO NOT clean up the tanks or rivets with MEK!

It is best to let the tanks dry and then sand the excess MEK off the tank.

I flew for two years before having my plane painted. Before going to the painters, I cleaned the excess proseal off the top of the left tank with MEK. A year after it was painted I had the dreaded paint blisters but only on the top of the left tank, where I had used MEK to clean it up.

Do use MEK to clean up the tools and clecos, that won't be a problem.

There seem to be conflicting opinions on this. I agree that if you have a perfect coating there should be no path from the edge of the rib to coming out the dimple, in a perfect world. I guess it is a belt and braces thing. I have talked to professionals at AC mfgs and they put sealant on the rivets in the hole before shooting them according to their published milspec type processes. I think my biggest problem is that I am not very good at riveting in general, having bought an almost structurally complete project. But I am learning. Thanks for your input.

Bill R,
Just wondering, do you have quick build wings?

I am trying to remove sealant from the tails of some rivets because i don't think I inspected them carefully enough. I bought poly-gone 310 gel, thinking it would just dissolve it away but I found it not to be that effective. I had to reapply it so often I used up a $40 jar and still didn't get everything done. It seems to only dissolve the top few thou of material. Is there a trick to using that stuff? Also, do the urethane sealant cutters work well? Are they a better bet to clean things off quickly? Any wisdom appreciated.

[quote=N941WR;959766]One thing, and this is very important, DO NOT clean up the tanks or rivets with MEK! QUOTE]


MEK is one of the best cleaners to use for pro seal. If you read whats in proseal, some of the Mil spec sealants have MEK in them! I work on aircraft for a living and use only MEK to clean metal before proseal application and for clean up and I have never had paint issues with the use of MEK. We actually add MEK to proseal in some instances because it will help thin out the sealant to flow a lot better and it will extend the working time if need be. In over 10 years of resealing windshields, Mooney fuel tanks, and numerous other pro seal adventures, I have never had MEK bubble paint.

SBlack - In my experience Poly-gone does not work the best on certain sealants. The only sealant I have seen it actually work as advertised on was the pink color sealant Piper uses on some models to seal the fuel panels onto the lower wings. The sealant urethane cutters that you can buy that look like they thread onto a 90 degree drill are AMAZING! They cut through sealant like you wouldn't believe. You still have to do some scraping with a plastic scraper (especially around rivet tails) but it will get rid of most of the sealant. I have used these a lot on Citation fuel bays where I was unable to bend my arm to reach with a plastic scraper. If you do purchase these, please beware, they are ment to be used with a slower RPM motor. I believe if you buy the kit that comes with what looks like a 90 degree drill, the motor only spins around 900RPM. If you use them with a regular 90 degree drill it will melt the cutters before cutting through the sealant (ask me how I figured that one out :) ).

Thank you Patrick.

FWIW, a survey of blistered builders did not find MEK usage to be a common factor.

Used a ton of MEK building my tanks. No blisters yet.

Sorry missed your question. No it is a 4 and I don't think they exist for that model. On the other hand, I bought the project almost all built, holes have been drilled. So I suppose it could be considered QB, except that the previous owner spent 25 yrs getting it there:o

What is the "easy" way to remove dry Pro Seal? I had to remove the wedge from my rudder and need to clean it now for a second prosealing attempt.

Proseal removal
 

There's a product.
Edit:
Polygone.
Check this thread.
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...&postcount=125

Many thanks!

Quantity of pro seal to mix??
 

Ready to seal my first tank and wondering if there is a general quantity of sealant to mix for the stiffeners, etc. Having a number in mind would make the first mixing go easier.

Proseal
 

Vans sells the quart kits. Buy one to start then if needed order a second later. That way your second will be fresh. My 7a tanks took about one and a half.

I found that about 1 gram per inch of surface I was sealing was a good amount to mix up. Always had some extra. So if your in the waste no Proseal camp you could probably back that down to .8 grams an inch.

Misunderstood
 

Thanks. I misunderstood the question. That sounds about right.

prime components?
 

Hi Guys,
So I've read through this thread and I'm not exactly sure the extent of priming I should perform before assembly. I'm not priming any alclad or internal components, but my concern is around T-712 z brackets and the T-405 angle. I would normally prime these non alclad components but I'm concerned about interaction with the ProSeal/MEK. I'm thinking the best approach to fully Fay seal the T-712 and T-405 followed by wet riveting, then priming these components after the tank is complete. Let me know if I'm off base with this one.
Tom.

Thanks! Very helpful!! My scale doesn't do tenths of grams so I mixed up 1 ounce to see how it would go. Had enough to get the stiffeners on, but needed more to do a nice fillet seal around them. Then got the fuel cap flange and drain on. Unfortunately had to drill out 3 rivets on the cap. Not fun.