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-   -   Sharing expenses-what is legal? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=69779)

aerhed 03-16-2011 10:41 AM

How bout this? Don't charge them for anything related to the plane. Make them "give" you illegal drugs or anasazi pottery, which you can then sell. Problem solved, FAA happy. Kinder, gentler, here to help us.

cropdusterengineer 03-16-2011 10:53 AM

If flying airplanes is fun for you (like it is for me), then arguing "pleasure" is always a very easy things to do!

"He needed to go to Cleveland for a meeting, but I went there just for the fun of it! We split the cost. Catch ya on the flip side, mister FAA guy!"

CDE

John Clark 03-16-2011 11:06 AM

The bigger picture
 
Sadly, there are always people that push this issue way too far. The FAA's concern really isn't about auditing hamburger consumption or fuel receipts. Here is an ugly example of why the rules are in place. Be sure to read Page 1c, under "Additional Information."

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...09FA112&rpt=fa

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

Koven 03-16-2011 04:24 PM

Sharing Expenses
 
I had this exact same question come up on my PP Checkride. I was told that you have to have a common purpose in order to share expenses. For example, if I were attending a conference, and a friend happened to be going to a different event, the cost cannot be shared. Also, only consumable costs such as fuel, oil, and rental fees can be shared.

Brent Impecoven

Flying Scotsman 03-16-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koven (Post 523967)
For example, if I were attending a conference, and a friend happened to be going to a different event, the cost cannot be shared. Also, only consumable costs such as fuel, oil, and rental fees can be shared.

Brent Impecoven

OK, so the common purpose is to go to the city in which the two events occur... :)

LeeM_2000 03-16-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Clark (Post 523868)
Sadly, there are always people that push this issue way too far. The FAA's concern really isn't about auditing hamburger consumption or fuel receipts. Here is an ugly example of why the rules are in place. Be sure to read Page 1c, under "Additional Information."

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...09FA112&rpt=fa

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

It would appear in this case that this rule was fairly ineffective. :rolleyes:

bret 03-17-2011 07:19 AM

I dislike cheap ungrateful people, Like when I take friends out on the boat, If we go to lunch Ill ask, (knowing the answer already) So you got this. then I get the weird look, so I say, OK Ill get lunch you pay for the boat gas, It burns 1 gallon every 60 seconds.

Mel 03-17-2011 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bret (Post 524094)
I dislike cheap ungrateful people, Like when I take friends out on the boat, If we go to lunch Ill ask, (knowing the answer already) So you got this. Then I get the weird look, so I say, OK Ill get lunch you pay for the boat gas, It burns 1 gallon every 60 seconds.

I love it!

charger81 11-16-2016 11:31 AM

Resurrecting an old thread
 
In today's Wall Street Journal (Opinion Section), there is a commentary by Jonathan Riches and Thomas P. Gross entitled "Ride-Sharing For Pilots Is No Flight Of Fancy".

In it, the article discusses a case that could possibly be reviewed by the Supreme Court, Flytenow v. FAA.

Similar to Uber and Airbnb, two companies (Wingly and Off We Fly) are currently operating in the European Union. Private Pilots communicate travel plans and sharing flight expenses over the internet, something that was shutdown here in the US by the FAA in late 2014 after Flytenow was started. The article is making the point that Private Pilots are currently allowed to post notices on airport bulletin boards as well as communicating about cost-sharing via email and phone. The authors argue that a service like Flytenow is merely a technological extension of currently accepted practices.

In reading through this thread (and others), it does seem to be a 'matter of interpretation' when it comes to pro rata sharing of flight expenses. I certainly get that one cannot hire a Private Pilot to take them somewhere unless the pilot was intending to go already (and then it can only be a pro rata sharing of expenses). Gets confusing however when you start digging into the intentions of each person (both going to the same activity?, each going to separate activities but the passenger cannot be going to a business meeting?, etc...). And most importantly, I get that profit cannot be a part of the equation.

It does, however, seem that technology is knocking down walls and barriers where previous impediments existed. Just wondering if this case is in fact heard by the Supreme Court and if so, a ruling goes against the FAA, will pro rata cost sharing become a hot topic amongst private pilots and the FAA? At the very least, it does seem that further clarification would be needed.

Auburntsts 11-16-2016 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charger81 (Post 1127208)
In today's Wall Street Journal (Opinion Section), there is a commentary by Jonathan Riches and Thomas P. Gross entitled "Ride-Sharing For Pilots Is No Flight Of Fancy".

In it, the article discusses a case that could possibly be reviewed by the Supreme Court, Flytenow v. FAA.

Similar to Uber and Airbnb, two companies (Wingly and Off We Fly) are currently operating in the European Union. Private Pilots communicate travel plans and sharing flight expenses over the internet, something that was shutdown here in the US by the FAA in late 2014 after Flytenow was started. The article is making the point that Private Pilots are currently allowed to post notices on airport bulletin boards as well as communicating about cost-sharing via email and phone. The authors argue that a service like Flytenow is merely a technological extension of currently accepted practices.

In reading through this thread (and others), it does seem to be a 'matter of interpretation' when it comes to pro rata sharing of flight expenses. I certainly get that one cannot hire a Private Pilot to take them somewhere unless the pilot was intending to go already (and then it can only be a pro rata sharing of expenses). Gets confusing however when you start digging into the intentions of each person (both going to the same activity?, each going to separate activities but the passenger cannot be going to a business meeting?, etc...). And most importantly, I get that profit cannot be a part of the equation.

It does, however, seem that technology is knocking down walls and barriers where previous impediments existed. Just wondering if this case is in fact heard by the Supreme Court and if so, a ruling goes against the FAA, will pro rata cost sharing become a hot topic amongst private pilots and the FAA? At the very least, it does seem that further clarification would be needed.

Based upon the discussions I've read over on the Red Board, I'd say Flytenow's case is DOA, but I'm not a lawyer so that's just my uninformed opinion.

Also, I'd say posting something on a bulletin board is at best a gray area and certainly not looked upon as an accepted practice by the FAA -- IOW folks that do are potentially opening themselves up to risk.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_brie...eFlyWithMe.pdf

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...aring-services

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...%20120-12A.pdf


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