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-   -   Criminals learning to fly? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=5636)

rv8ch 02-09-2006 10:44 AM

What does flying teach?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe gremlin
... I fail to see how a private pilot certificate will help anyone with a DWI conviction and prison time in their past find any kind of gainful employment.

One of the most important things you have to learn to be a (good) pilot is that you alone are responsible for what happens. If this guy learns that from his flight training, even if he does not get his PPL or go on to fly 777s to Tokyo, I think he will be better off, and as a consequence, so will the rest of us.

In any case, he's paying for the training. He could have wasted the money on something useless.

Hawkeye7A 02-09-2006 11:19 AM

Peace of mind?
 
A friend here at work raised what I feel may be a significant point: I don't know about the rest of you but I get a very relaxing feeling of peace when I fly. I don't know how I would cope with having killed my own son because of a stupid mistake I made. However, I surely can see how flying may help me regain/retain some sense of usefulness and accomplishment (and sanity) whether or not I operated the aircraft in a commercial endeavor. JMHO

--hawk

kevinh 02-09-2006 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv8ch
One of the most important things you have to learn to be a (good) pilot is that you alone are responsible for what happens. If this guy learns that from his flight training, even if he does not get his PPL or go on to fly 777s to Tokyo, I think he will be better off, and as a consequence, so will the rest of us.

In any case, he's paying for the training. He could have wasted the money on something useless.

Well said!

Nosferav8r 02-09-2006 01:44 PM

Maybe I missed it, but nowhere in the article did I see mention that he wished to pursue aviation as a career. Not everyone who flies even has an intention of becoming a professional... I'd think in this forum more than anywhere we'd recognize that.

I have my PPL and an IFR ticket with wet ink... I have absolutely no intention of pursuing it further than that because I'm quite happy in my day job in computers. Flying is my hobby... there it'll stay if I have anything to say about it. Perhaps this guy has the same goal as me.

L.Adamson 02-10-2006 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william weesner
i*only serving 5-7 years for KILLING TWO INNOCENT PEOPLE..HOLY **** YOU ARE KIDDING ME lets all give him a great big hug and tell him its ok to not be responsible for your action's he should rot in jail or be put to death....man what about the victims? whrere does this sympathy for wreckless drunks come from ?yea it is stupid but you are responsible for you actions period.

Let's divide this statement up for what it really is....

Being drunk and reckless----- no excuse

Killing two innocent people "intentionally" --- not hardly

Giving big hugs & saying it's okay ---- no one is doing that, are they?

L.Adamson

grover 02-10-2006 10:24 AM

a possibility
 
I'd suggest organ donation would be a good way for this turkey to try to amend a little tiny bit for his egregious lack of judgement.

Jerry Kinman 02-10-2006 12:00 PM

Unbelieveable
 
I must start by saying I respect anyone's opinion, no matter how misguided it may be. The Opra-watching do-gooders seemed to have overlooked the fact that a license to fly is a priviledge, not a constitutional right. There are standards that must be met, one of which is moral character. That may sound unreasonable to some but it was included in the licensing requirements for a very good reason. Propelling a ton of metal or plastic through the same airspace that is used for public transportation requires considerably more maturity, judgement and responsibility than driving your Honda around the highways. In today's anything-goes society where a child rapist gets only a 60 day jail sentence and convicted child molesters get pardoned by departing presidents the FAA still gets serious about felony convictions when it comes to medical applications. Even intentionally falsifying applications can lead to up to 5 years imprisonment and/or up to $250,000 in fines. This guy better be thankful he is from a state like Nebraska where they are soft on crime.

If he really wants to use his talents he will move to Massachussets and run for the Senate.

Doug, thanks for the soap box. I feel better now.

redbeardmark 02-10-2006 12:14 PM

less desirable alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rv8ch
One of the most important things you have to learn to be a (good) pilot is that you alone are responsible for what happens. If this guy learns that from his flight training, even if he does not get his PPL or go on to fly 777s to Tokyo, I think he will be better off, and as a consequence, so will the rest of us.

In any case, he's paying for the training. He could have wasted the money on something useless.

Agreed. He could have worked on a law degree and started suing "the system"-- which, by the way, is us.

He was tried and convicted by a jury of his peers. He was sentenced to prison(capital punishment was probably not one of the judge's options for vehicular manslaughter) and is serving time. That is how our system works.

Apparently, there is no law against this person flying an airplane. If folks don't like that, they should petition the legislature to change it.

w1curtis 02-10-2006 01:26 PM

Least ye be judged!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Kinman
.. The Opra-watching do-gooders seemed to have overlooked the fact that a license to fly is a priviledge, not a constitutional right. There are standards that must be met, one of which is moral character. That may sound unreasonable to some but it was included in the licensing requirements for a very good reason. ...

The requirement for "sound moral character" only applies for the ATP certificate-for as you say-good reason. Can you cite where it is required elsewhere?

I can't say I watch Oprah, but before we are so quick to judge, lets pose the situation a little differently. Lets say you are a VFR pilot that stumbles into IMC over a city and crashed in a city block killing folks on the ground. Aren't the folks just as dead? A few years ago a IFR pilot (also CFI rated) took off at Linden airport in NJ with a bad Turn Coordinator and after a gyro failure, did this very thing.

While not justifying DUI and/or vehicular homicide, the only thing this guy did differently it seems was to survive. So now that he is alive, how should he function in society?

Note: I always found it odd, that some are afraid to fly IFR over mountains in a single, but give no thought to doing the same over a city.

kevinh 02-10-2006 01:57 PM

While I appreciate the reasoned (ahem) response below. I think any discussion of sentencing in the united states deals way too much with class, money and the 'war on drugs' to discuss at length in this forum. Probably best to move those aspects of discussion over to someplace like instapundit/redstate/dailykos.com as people wish. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Kinman
I must start by saying I respect anyone's opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.

...

In today's anything-goes society where a child rapist gets only a 60 day jail sentence and convicted child molesters get pardoned by departing presidents the FAA still gets serious about felony convictions when it comes to medical applications. Even intentionally falsifying applications can lead to up to 5 years imprisonment and/or up to $250,000 in fines. This guy better be thankful he is from a state like Nebraska where they are soft on crime.

If he really wants to use his talents he will move to Massachussets and run for the Senate.

Doug, thanks for the soap box. I feel better now.



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