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-   -   Oxygen systems (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=39954)

panhandler1956 06-28-2008 02:19 PM

Built-in Oxygen System for RV8?
 
Any -8 builders out there have advice on how you installed your oxygen system? Pics would be a bonus! ;)

I very early in my new -1 slow build fuselage, but I thought I'd start gathering some data.

Thanks in advance!

GrayHawk 06-28-2008 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler1956 (Post 234838)
Any -8 builders out there have advice on how you installed your oxygen system? Pics would be a bonus! ;)

I very early in my new -1 slow build fuselage, but I thought I'd start gathering some data.

Thanks in advance!

Interest here also. I'd ike a semi-permanent installation, bottle in baggage area (not always there) , plumbing to instrument panel, quick-disconnects and flow-rate meter & adj. per pilot & passenger.
Are there any sources for parts to do this?

Adam Oke 06-28-2008 06:52 PM

I'm no builder, yet..... but I would look into glider oxygen system installs. They're compact, and some panel mounts like what you were looking for. Very common in the soaring world to have an aircraft O2 equipt.

rleffler 06-29-2008 04:51 AM

Brent,

These links are RV-10 specific, but may give you some ideas.

bob

http://www.myrv10.com/tips/accessori...gen/index.html

http://www.myrv10.com/N610RV/O2_system/index.html

rickrv8 06-29-2008 06:54 AM

O2
 
I added a floor rib between bulkheads aft of the elevator bellcrank. I used that rib to mount my S-Tec pitch servo bracket and my O2 bottle. I run high pressure lines to the O2 regulator up near the instrument panel. I mounted the flow valve on side panels near the 804 bulkhead and have a pressure gauge on the right sub-instrument panel. The refill station is mounted on the longeron gusset just behind the passenger seat bulkhead. I've attached a few pictures.






However, if I were to do it again I would opt for a semi-permanent mounting solution. I have a good friend who did this with his -4. He mounted his tank in the baggage compartment directly behind the passenger seat perpendicular to the longitudinal axis. The regulator is mounted to the bottle. From the regulator he permanently runs low pressure lines to the pilot and passenger locations. Operationally, if he anticipates using O2 he simply opens the valve on the regulator before he takes off. O2 will flow to the breathing station bulhead connectors but it won't deliver O2 unless the cannula or face mask is connected. Mountain high also offers some remote regulator options that allow in-flight control of the regultor. This arrangement is nice because you can easily remove the bottle for filling or if you don't intend to use O2 on a particular flight.

panhandler1956 06-29-2008 01:18 PM

Perfect!
 
Rick,
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch!

Anyone else have a built-in RV-8 system they can share? It would be nice to see a couple of versions.

Regards,

stearmansteve 02-18-2009 10:48 AM

Oxygen systems
 
I want to install an oxygen system in my 8 and wonder if anyone has experience and recommendations to share.

whifof100ll 02-18-2009 03:28 PM

Consider leaving it portable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stearmansteve (Post 300634)
I want to install an oxygen system in my 8 and wonder if anyone has experience and recommendations to share.

I use a small portable Sky OX unit pretty regularly on XC missions these days as my plane is way more efficent up high. It works very well, though I don't have experience with other brands to compare. I have had it since the early 90's and it has held up well.

I am a firm belever in keeping the plane as light as possible for any given mission, so I did not want to install anything permanent since on most hops I will not carry OX. I see no real downside to leaving it portable.

mannanj 02-18-2009 10:50 PM

O-2
 
I installed a removable bottle in the aft cargo compartment and ran lines forward on the right side. I installed doublers in the floor and added Nut-Serts AKA Riv-nuts for the tie-down clamp bolts. If you do this before installing the aft cargo comp. floor, you can add doublers and regular nut plates.

I'm not a kid anymore, so I use O-2 anytime above 10K. If I'm going into the flight levels, I pre-breathe while climbing to increase oxygen saturation. This is a procedure we used when I was in the Military when we needed to work with the cabin de-pressurized. Oxygen is cheap, so there's no reason not to add it to your plane.

The system is totally removable and well worth the effort.

Dave Cole 02-19-2009 06:14 AM

Pulse Demand delivery systems
 
I would suggest the Mountain High pulse-demand system. It reduces oxygen consumption dramatically so you can use a smaller, lighter cylinder and/or not refill as often. This description came from their website http://www.mhoxygen.com/
The EDS O2D2, with the patented digital electronic "Pulse Demand" oxygen delivery system, enables the pilot and passenger to fly at pressure altitudes up to 25,000 ft. with safety and comfort. The EDS O2D2 digital pulse demand system reduces oxygen consumption dramatically. Different from the "standard" constant flow systems, the EDS O2D2 pulse demand system wastes no oxygen during the breathing cycle when oxygen is not being delivered to the lungs. The average user will enjoy a conservative consumption drop of 4 times compared to the constant flow systems. The system operates with two people for up to 50 hours on three AA alkaline batteries.
I have not used this system myself, but I have heard nothing but positive comments from a number of sailplane pilots I know that are using the MH system.

Ed_Wischmeyer 02-19-2009 06:47 AM

Oxygen systems
 
I've had a MountainHigh portable system for some years now. The big advantage of the pulsed delivery (other vendors have similar) is that your bottle duration is measured in trips, not in hours. It's a real pain to have your bottle poop out on you when there's no convenient place to refill. Also, portable systems are much easier and cheaper to refill than built-in systems. And when you refill an oxygen system, it's a fixed price per refill, regardless of how empty your system is or how big the bottle is. I have a big carbon fiber bottle, and it's great.

As for the "need" for oxygen, it turns out that there is essentially no research in the literature documenting the need for oxygen at low altitudes. My empirical evidence is that the FARs are much too lenient, and my personal physiology appreciates oxygen above 8000. On a long, hot bumpy all-day cross country without oxygen, I'm wiped out at the end of the day. With oxygen, I feel good except for a sore nose from the cannula. And this was true when I lived at 5,000 feet and walked 20 miles per week with superlative pulse and blood pressure. One presenter at Oshkosh a few years back said that four hours without supplemental oxygen was the equivalent of a half hour at 14,000 in terms of hypoxia. In my book, being macho about getting along without oxygen makes as much sense as landing with as little fuel left as possible.

And then there's hydration -- water. For me, hydration means drinking a lot of water the day before so that water can permeate the cells. On the day of the flight, water consumption is sips during the flight. Big chugs of water right before the flight don't do much except exercise the bladder...

What's surprising to me is how much of hypoxia and hydration has to do with comfort and personal performance. Nobody wants to be uncomfortable in an airplane, and nobody wants to fly an airplane poorly. It's amazing how much difference oxygen and water can make, and how easy it is to do.

Alan Carroll 02-19-2009 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannanj (Post 300866)
I installed a removable bottle in the aft cargo compartment and ran lines forward on the right side.

I was planning to do this as well, but the Precise Flight people (where I got my portable system) recommended against it. They said the lines would be too long; they need to be kept short for proper flow regulation.

I ended up mounting my bottle on the seat-back using the clamps that Mountain High sells. I used the "D" size bottle (15 cu. ft) which can be positioned to avoid any interference with the rear stick. This has worked out very well; I use it routinely for flying out west.

bruce1369 02-19-2009 08:30 AM

O2 systems.
 
There is no need to purchase expensive "Aviation Branded" O2 systems. I have been using a regular medical O2 delivery system for years. I spoke with my AME and he recommended a flow rate (1.5L). This demand system is portable, safe and CHEAP. Have your bottle filled with "Aviator's breathing oxygen" at any industrial gas outfit that sells oxygen.

O2: $17.00
Tank & regulator: $55.00

Stick it on your face and FLY! :D

P.S. I flew in the Marine Corps (A6-E, EA-6B and EA-6A) and we were required to be on oxygen at ALL times when we flew. In civillian mode, I use oxygen after 3000' nighttime and 5000' daytime. :)

P.P.S If you are really concerned about oxygen saturation in your blood, get a finger oxymeter, they are also cheap (~$100.00) and WELL WORTH IT!:D

Guy Prevost 02-19-2009 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Carroll (Post 300916)
I ended up mounting my bottle on the seat-back using the clamps that Mountain High sells. I used the "D" size bottle (15 cu. ft) which can be positioned to avoid any interference with the rear stick. This has worked out very well; I use it routinely for flying out west.

I've been looking for pictures of a setup like this. Do you happen to have any?

Guy

scard 02-19-2009 09:06 AM

I can vouch for the Mountain High pulse demand system too. It isn't a small initial purchase, but it is worth it. It is a no hassle system, just turn it on, and it takes care of proper delivery. Tanya and I have used it quite a bit. I refill my own bottle from welding O2. I have two (stage) tanks in the hangar.

kellyp 02-19-2009 05:12 PM

Go Medical O2 !
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce1369 (Post 300926)
There is no need to purchase expensive "Aviation Branded" O2 systems. I have been using a regular medical O2 delivery system for years. I spoke with my AME and he recommended a flow rate (1.5L). This demand system is portable, safe and CHEAP. Have your bottle filled with "Aviator's breathing oxygen" at any industrial gas outfit that sells oxygen.

I also fly with medical bottles & regulator - you can get many bottle sizes depending on what your trip plans are. Refill my own from a 'transfiller' designed to hook up to welding oxygen.

Highly recommend the Chad Oxysaver or Oxymiser cannulas. You can cut the normal flow in half and waste very little O2. I normally run .25-.5 LPM when solo. Living in Denver at 6300' I practically strap it on at takeoff ;-)

Alan Carroll 02-19-2009 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Prevost (Post 300927)
I've been looking for pictures of a setup like this. Do you happen to have any?

Guy

Guy,

I don't, but I can take one this weekend and post.

Ed_Wischmeyer 02-20-2009 08:06 AM

Oximeters
 
>If you are really concerned about oxygen saturation in your blood, get a finger oxymeter, they are also cheap (~$100.00) and WELL WORTH IT!

Had one for years, and it appears that 90% saturation is bottom value for aviating. My physiology really likes to be at 93% or more to feel good, but there's lots more to hypoxia avoidance than just feeling good. And I don't recall having seen any numbers in the scientific literature...

Some of the postings about cheap, improvised oxygen systems scare me... Like, would you try to save money with an improvised parachute?

bruce1369 02-20-2009 09:35 AM

'Morning Ed_wischmeyer!
I have a question about your comment "Some of the postings about cheap, improvised oxygen systems scare me... Like, would you try to save money with an improvised parachute?"

I suppose if you haven't researched the issue, you would be frightened. Do you believe only one manufacturer has the capability to produce a safe, reliable, efficent oxygen delivery system? Would that manufacturer be Mountain High? Do you consider all other systems not manufactured by Mountain High, "improvised"? You are entitled to your opinion and fears, but we must all remember it's just your opinion.

Noah 02-20-2009 10:37 AM

For those reviewing this thread who might not be aware, there is already an existing thread which has a lot of great info on building your own O2 setup:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=28412

Alan Carroll 02-22-2009 07:23 PM

Oxygen on RV-8 seatback
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Prevost (Post 300927)
I've been looking for pictures of a setup like this. Do you happen to have any?

Guy

Guy,

Here's a photo of how I mounted my oxygen bottle to the seat back. This is "D" size (15 cu. ft.). This probably only will work with the Nelson/Precise Flight type of regulator, which brings the tubing connections out at 90°.

The clamps are from Mountain High: http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.phtml?...product_id=300. They allow quick release for refilling at an FBO.

The rear stick easily clears under the bottle, and there's no interference problems for the passenger.

[IMG][/IMG]

Guy Prevost 02-23-2009 08:36 AM

Thanks Alan!

Guy


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