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Cross Country Flying
There are some questions on another thread about Rosies experience getting out long distance.
That needs to be another thread. I hope we can start a new one here? or some one else do it . I have been stuck in a few places I did not want to be. So I got a insturment ticket. And very nearly gave up flying bacause of the expence of paying for my V35P IFR Bonanza. Too much money going out to keep up the thing...IFR With my VFR RV 6, I go when I can, pick my WX, but I am flexiable on dates. Lucky I guess?? Mostly I head west out of Fort Worth. I would like to have a IFR plane but am not interested in paying for that. So I will just pay for a room when I get stuck. I do know how to call flight service on 122.00 if the WX looks iffy in flight.I do not push the margins/cheat,,,,,,, cluck, cluck,cluck!!! When flyers in this aera go east we are going to have a front to deal with, coming or going....Sun n Fun... I guess Rosie gets the same WX we do east of the Mississippi. hope this works ? Please add your experiences Thanks |
Jay,
I guess I'm a little confused regarding the expenses you incurred? Granted it was a lowly Cherokee compared to that EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN Bonanza, but over a 3 year period my costs related to IFR flights were less than $400.00 (not counting proficiency costs and charts/plates). Other than the pitot/static check and a couple of vacuum filters, I don't recall anything else. Same vacuum pump, no unusual radio/avionics costs, etc. I used to hangar with a guy in Houston that specialized in Bonanza maintenance, so I am somewhat familiar with their cost of ownership, and wonder if that's what you're talking about? Dave |
Nothing to do about a Bonanza
I spent a lot on a 1961 Cessna 172, keeping/ adding to the 2, King 170B/ KI 209 and King ADF, Century I autopuilot up to speed before I bought the Bonanza.
The P35 had two 170Bs with KI 209s. duel glide slopes. ADF, KMA 124, full auto pilot ..any way,,.,the things were a CONSTANT drain on my fuel. money, time. It was too much plane for my personal pocket. Not the Bonanzas fault, it is easy to buy more than one can afford. Heck I still want a Beech 18 and a C185 No complant on the Bonanza, I owned it for 5+ years and 800 hours, it served me well. Flew it to Trinidad, Barbados, St Martin,OSH,Reno, New York I would still have it if I could afford it. The comfort of a Bonanza is the best. I think the new radios we put in our RVs are cheeper to maintaine than the older stuff I had in those planes. Plus the EXP on our airworthness Pink slips makes our airplanes more desirable. The RV 10 will make the spam cans,.old ,slow,and expensive, airplanes Thanks |
How Rosie flies so much cross country...
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Before the RV, the farthest I had ever flown from home (SoCAL) was 180nm to Las Vegas and back. That was a BIG deal for Victoria & I to fly to Las Vegas for the weekend. I rarely flew more than an hour one way in the rented Grumman Tiger since that would put me over 2 hours hobbs to pay for when I got home. I was very fortunate to have met and become great friends with Gary Sobek during the time I was building. Gary flew his RV-6 a couple of years before me, and I was reading about HIS cross country travels. His trip logs really kept me motivated to finish our plane. My first flight was July 4, 2000. We were not planning on attending OSH since that was 1500nm away; too far for us! Gary offered to fly ?lead? to OSH so we followed him all the way there, 20 days after my first flight. And that was the beginning of our cross country flying in an RV. I have to say that I had a good mentor whose motto is ?I?d rather be a live chicken than dead duck.? Many of our first cross countries were spent chasing Gary all around the western USA including a 2-ship with him to Alaska. He taught me a LOT about weather and about using all the resources available while enroute: Center, Flight Watch, Approach?they are there for you. All those trips finally gave me the confidence to venture out on my own to Florida during Thanksgiving week, 2001. The rest is history?the USA doesn?t seem so big now ;-) For all those trips we've made, we've only been grounded due to weather maybe 4 or 5 times (mostly stuck in the Ohio Valleys...what's with that :confused: ) Sooooo, how do we do it? Here are my 10 rules on cross country flying; #1: Got time to spare? Go by Air! If you don?t have time built into your trip for weather delays, don?t fly. Never depend on the weather to be your friend. Drive, fly Commercial or stay home if you are time-limited. #2: I?m married to a Weather Channel fanatic! Victoria will watch it closely starting a week before we are planning a trip. I like looking at PROG charts. This gives us an idea of what the future ?might? look like. As our departure date nears, we?ll start deciding on what route is looking best. #3: We live in the west, in the desert: 99% of the time, we are able to depart on the day we planned to. Living east of the Rockies is an entirely different in my book? I can only think of one time we left a day early due to weather moving in and that was for the Bahamas trip; Gary Sobek was unable to leave early and he got stuck behind the front we got in front of and he missed the Turks & Caicos portion of the trip :( #4: Be flexible on your destinations: You can plan a flight but that necessarily mean you have to fly the plan. Weather changes and you need to be flexible in changing with it. Always fly to where the weather is good. #5: Meet new friends! I can count the times we?ve stayed in a motel as we stay with friends whenever we can (and I?m not embarrassed to ask). RV folks are truly the best people you will ever meet, especially when so far from home. Carry a copy of the RV Hospitality list in your plane. If you?re going to be stuck, at least be stuck with friends :-) Note: Our skypark home will hopefully be open to you all late this year! #6: Center and Flight Watch are your friends! We talk with Center on EVERY cross country flight we make. And if they can?t take me, I?ll ask for the next frequency of someone who can. Flight Watch (122.0) can help keep you VFR but you have to call and ask. I have great respect for the service FSS provides to pilots. #7: Always have an out! RVs move quickly, and there are some weather systems that you can fly around. If you deviate, make sure you have an alternate just in case weather starts going down hill. ALWAYS have an out! Superior pilots use their superior knowledge to keep them away from situations that will require their superior flight skills :) #8: Know your limits! Flying in the Los Angeles Basin, I?ve learned that 3 miles visibility sometimes means ?1.5 miles in front of you and 1.5 miles behind you?. Yes, I fly in marginal conditions (VFR not recommended) but I?ll do so while abiding by rules #6 & #7. I fly VFR on top if need be as long as I know I?ll have scattered to clear at my destination (please don?t debate the VFR on top this on this thread). I fly VFR at night when needed AND when the weather is severe clear (ditto on the debate). I do this knowing my limits. Know when to say when?.think ?Live Chicken?. #9: Repeat after me; ?It?s better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here.? If you are hesitant about departing on the next leg of your trip because of weather, then go ahead and hesitate?flinch?take a break. Call Flight Service, recheck DUATS. It's OK not to go...get a room, check out the local sites, maybe go tomorrow. You are not a real pilot until you?ve flown somewhere, landed, then driven the rest of the way to get to your destination :) #10: Flying is NOT safe! Got your attention, eh? Well, it?s not. Go ahead, look up the word safe in any dictionary. SAFE: Without risk or harm. I?m a firm believer in the John & Martha King School that flying is a continuing course in ?Risk Management?. Bad things can happen if you take unnecessary risks. You can fly the same hour a thousand times or you can fly a thousand different hours. The next hour you fly will be the most important one regardless of how many you have in your book. Minimize your risk: Make sure you have plenty of fuel and stay away from bad weather. I do not consider myself an expert on weather but with help from friends like Gary Sobek and others, I've learned to respect it and fly within the limits of my abilities and ability of the plane. Traveling cross country is a very rewarding experience, and I hope that all of you can one day see this beautiful country we live in as you travel across the country in your RV, it?s AWESOME! I thank Doug Reeves for this website where we can all share and learn from each other. Keep poundin? them rivets because it's all worth it! Rosie PS: Some favorite weather and flight planning links; http://www.intellicast.com (you can input Airport IDs directly e.g. LAX, DFW, ATL etc) http://adds.aviationweather.gov/ http://www.wunderground.com/ http://www.rvproject.com/wx/ http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/route/index.cfm http://www.airnav.com |
Rosie,
That's probably the most informative post I've seen on any aviation list in years! Thanks for that. BTW, Rosie and I have met several times here in the Ohio Valley area, once while he was snowed in in Kokomo Indiana over Chirstmas. We've probably had two or three weekends this winter where the weather has cooperated. When my Rocket is done, I have a West coast trip planned. I will definitely look you up. Thanks for sharing the wisdom you've learned. |
Additional Weather Sites
I fly from Amarillo, mostly west to NV, CA, OR and ID and over 20 years I can count on one hand the times I've had to stay over. Decisions to depart are another story.
In addition to Rosie's weather sites here are a couple of additional ones that I like: http://www.lightningstorm.com/ls2/gp...09930757224797 http://usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi? http://adds.aviationweather.gov/ Roger Robertson Trinidad TB20 Looking for a good 6,7 or 9. rrrob@arn.net |
Great post!
#3 is probably pretty pertinent (living in a desert). At least you only have to worry about the weather at one end of the trip. But, still, to be able to get in the time you have, on three day weekends between two jobs -- well, I'd just bet your "live chicken" factor is in a whole other range than mine. That's got to be experience. Somehow you've learned to tell when FSS really means it when they say "VFR not recommended". I'm in awe! By the way -- has anyone else ever wondered why they lump all marginal weather into one category and just tell us not to do it? I know they have to cover their legal butts, but it seems like they could at least give a range. ("VFR not recommended for low-timers"..."VFR not recommended for amateurs"..."VFR really risky"..."VFR a genuine dumb idea"..."VFR technically legal but suicidal"). Think about it. If the professional weather expert at the other end of the phone won't give you a real opinion, then you the amateur weatherman are forced to do it. |
You're right Jon, we ARE supposed to do that ourselves.
Those additional sub-classifications of VFR are what we ourselves are supposed to figure out (and assign) based upon current weather, and coupled with a personal evaluation of our own experience value and pucker factor we allow for ourselves. :D |
It's been my experience that when they say "VFR not recommended", I don't want to fly in it. The only exception is when it's marginal due to ceilings, but visibility is still good. In a large part of the Central/Eastern half of the US, you get used to flying around thunderstorms, scud running along frontal boundries, ducking under temporary low ceilings, and flying VFR on top.
The RV is a pretty good performing airplane and you can circumvent weather in it that you'd probably not try in a spam can. In the end, I strongly recommend that you set personal limits for ceilings, visibility, time on top and stick to them religiously. |
A few more list items
Here are a couple of other items I find useful:
1) Get a Low Altitude IFR chart. For going long distances these are great. They have the west on one side and the east on the other. They have the V airways, VORs airports etc. Great for roughing in a trip especially since I have yet to make it across the country flying my initial plan. I mark the airports with cheap gas, points of interest etc, on this chart so I can pick out good stops. 2) Push the good weather not the bad. 2a) Wake up early! These two have can really save a trip. If you get just a few miles farther the day before, or you get out at 6:00AM you could be on the good side of the front. If the weather is good I just keep on flying! 3) A fuel totalizer is really your friend! If you never fly farther than one tank away it doesn't matter but on long x-countries it is really nice to know exactly how much fuel you are burning. I'm always looking at my GPS's ETA and my fuel remaining in hours. Chuck |
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