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-   -   LED lighting (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=37018)

T.O.Craig 12-07-2008 12:24 PM

LED lighting
 
I'm to the point where it is time to order lighting for my wings. HID from Duck Works for the leading edge. I have already bought Vans Landing lights in the tips which I will also keep and maybe oscillate. There will also be strobes at the tip. The real question is, has anyone used LEDs for position lights and how effective are they. Any input would be appreciated. Good to be back in the forum

craigvince 12-07-2008 03:00 PM

There are several recent threads on LED lighting for RVs, including links to the various manufacturers. Do a search on "LED" and see what pops up.

T.O.Craig 12-07-2008 04:48 PM

LED
 
I will see what I can find. Thanks for the tip

bweiss 12-07-2008 06:52 PM

led lighting
 
I am using LED for my nav lights. SInce the lights are fairly narrow beam it is important that you orient them in multiple directions. Last night I was following another RV into oiur airport at dusk and he saw me land. His comment was that my nav lights worked wonderfully and he had no problem seeing me.

petehowell 12-07-2008 09:17 PM

Roll your own!!
 
Here is a link to some lights that look an awful lot like what Bernie has in his wingtips. ;) No complaints on not being able to be seen.

Cost is not bad for some luxeon LEDs and a big resistor. I have 380 hours on mine and I run them pretty much night and day.





More pics here.......

petehowell 12-08-2008 07:32 PM

LED Stuff
 
Hello - I've been gettting quite a few PMs asking about the materials used to make the LED nav lights. Here is the scoop:

Here are the resistors you need: link

here are the Green LEDS: (use cyan, not green) link

here are the Red LEDs: link

The luxeons should be mounted to an AL sheet with heat conducting, but electrically insulating compound: link

Mirrored Plexi can be found here: link

Here is the schematic:




More construction pics here

Questions:

Do they meet the FARs? - No idea - but they are crazy bright

Do they get too hot? - Mine have not - I run them whenever I fly - no issues in almost 400 hrs - the resistor tends to underdrive the LEDs. The resistor gets warm, but not hot.

Total cost? - LED prices seem to vary a bunch - I have about $60-$70 in both sides of mine.

My standard 1 beer fee applies - payable in the upper midwest (during the summer)........

Flying Scotsman 12-20-2008 11:56 PM

Your links are broken...

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehowell (Post 279156)
here are the Green LEDS: (use cyan, not green) link

here are the Red LEDs: link

Are the parts these?

http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-iii...00ma-p-281.php

http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-iii...00ma-p-282.php

craigvince 12-21-2008 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman (Post 282756)


Hi Steve,
Those are the ones I just ordered.

petehowell 12-21-2008 12:32 AM

Fixed the Links
 
Not sure what happened - those are the right ones.

striplic 12-21-2008 11:57 AM

Forward Voltage Total
 
Question: How does the cyan led with 3.9 forward voltage work when you only have a 12 V (14.4 V) supply? The total for 4 leds adds up to 15.6 volts. I don't doubt they light up as you have demonstrated, but why/how? I understand very little about electronics (perhaps only enough to get me into trouble) and can use the help in understanding. I want to use leds in my wingtips also. :) Thanks! Cliff

petehowell 12-21-2008 02:40 PM

Hey Cliff!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by striplic (Post 282870)
Question: How does the cyan led with 3.9 forward voltage work when you only have a 12 V (14.4 V) supply? The total for 4 leds adds up to 15.6 volts. I don't doubt they light up as you have demonstrated, but why/how? I understand very little about electronics (perhaps only enough to get me into trouble) and can use the help in understanding. I want to use leds in my wingtips also. :) Thanks! Cliff

This has been questioned before - and rightly so. I'm not sure what to say except that it works and it really works well. The LEDs are current driven vs voltage driven - that might have something to do with it.

Maybe one of our EE's on the boards can answer this.

Flying Scotsman 12-21-2008 09:55 PM

What are you using for your power supply?

petehowell 12-21-2008 10:07 PM

Ship's Power
 
Hi Steve,

The circuit above is hooked directly to ship's power (14.4V) with a switch. The resistor acts as a crude current limiter. It is cheap, simple, passive, and it works (at the expense of effciency). The PWM power supplies are more effcient, but until recently, they had some issues with RF noise and are more expensive.

Not sure if that answered your question - let me know if I missed.

petehowell 01-03-2009 06:08 PM

More Pics
 
I've had a few requests for more pics, so here are some images Peter F captured today in his basement as we worked up what we are calling the Photon Bazooka(tm) for his -7.

This puppy will have two(waggable) 50 watt HID per tip and 4 Luxeon III stars for position. Several LED strobe candidates are currently being auditioned.

Here is the back of the LEDs with wiring



Peter metered on the LED die to keep the lights from blowing out the pic here. These are being driven at less than 200ma - 1/4 of full current. See the nice edge glow.....



Glamour pic of yours truly holding the power wires....hide this from your wives.:D You get a sense of how obnoxiously bright these things are even running at a fraction of capacity.



Fun little project!

Flying Scotsman 01-25-2009 10:26 PM

Hey, Pete...just ordered all the goodies to start making up these nav lights...yours looks like one of the best solutions I've seen, so we're gonna give it a whirl. One question...probably a dumb one...did you stand the plexi off from the fiberglas, and if so, how far/what'd you use? Or was it a function of the landing light fixture?

petehowell 01-25-2009 11:00 PM

Giddy Up!
 
Hi Steve,

The aluminium backing plate rides on the fiberglass and the plexi rides on little spacers and the luxeon stars. The holes in the plexi locate the stars on the aluminium backing plate.

Post some pics when you are done!

Flying Scotsman 01-26-2009 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehowell (Post 293083)
Hi Steve,

The aluminium backing plate rides on the plexi and the plexi rides on little spacer and the luxeon stars. The holes in the plexi locate the stars on the aluminium backing plate.

Post some pics when you are done!

I think I understand...did you mean the aluminum plate rides on the *fiberglass*, and then the plexi rides on the aluminum w/ spacers and the luxeons between them?

Seems straightforward...will post some pics when I get it done (which might be quite a while...the Luxeon site says there's several weeks backorder on one or the other of the colors of stars :( ).

petehowell 01-26-2009 05:35 AM

Sorry
 
Steve - yes, that is exactly what I meant - I corrected the post above.

Flying Scotsman 01-28-2009 10:10 PM

With regards to strobes...Aveo has the nice tail position/strobe LED light, that looks good. But for wingtip strobes, I'm just wondering...has anybody tried using an automotive solution? Just for example, what about something like this:

http://www.hyper-lights.com/product_...roducts_id=462

I don't know what the specs are for strobe lights per the FARs, but it seems to me there should be some solutions extant in the emergency vehicle supplier realm that would work for us...

rleffler 01-29-2009 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman (Post 294073)
With regards to strobes...Aveo has the nice tail position/strobe LED light, that looks good. But for wingtip strobes, I'm just wondering...has anybody tried using an automotive solution? Just for example, what about something like this:

http://www.hyper-lights.com/product_...roducts_id=462

I don't know what the specs are for strobe lights per the FARs, but it seems to me there should be some solutions extant in the emergency vehicle supplier realm that would work for us...


This is the Nova product being resold. These are very noisy from a RF perspective. CreativAir attempted to sell them, but just took them off the market.

mcattell 01-29-2009 01:24 PM

Aveo Nav Light
 
Take a look at the Aveo Nav lights at www.aveoaviationlights.com. I'm been corresponding with the owner of Aveo, Christian Nielsen, and he's in the process of designing a package for the RV wingtip lighting which includes a good quality replacement lens. Apperarantly the low cost lens that Van's ship with the wingtips will block a lot of the LED light output. I saw their product at Oshkosh and was impressed. I'm considering the complete nav light package with stobes and tail light strobe combo. You can currently find their products in Aircraft Spruce but you may want to wait so see what he comes up with specifically for the RV's.

I understand that Aveo also has very high output LED landing lights but I also have already installed Duckworks HID lights in the wings.

Flying Scotsman 01-29-2009 02:39 PM

I looked at their website, and I really like the tail light/strobe, but I didn't see any landing lights listed there.

I'm planning on, if at all possible, going with a full LED lighting system...

mcattell 01-30-2009 01:13 AM

Aveo LED Landing Lights
 
I was told by Aveo that they have LED landing lights now so you should send them an e-mail to get more info.

Flying Scotsman 02-03-2009 12:11 AM

The LuxeonStars LEDs arrived, and we tested them with the the resistor and a 13.something V power supply. Mother of God are those little dudes bright! WOW!

These should make terrific nav lights...thanks for the tip!

petehowell 02-03-2009 06:15 AM

Giddy up!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman (Post 295628)
The LuxeonStars LEDs arrived, and we tested them with the the resistor and a 13.something V power supply. Mother of God are those little dudes bright! WOW!

These should make terrific nav lights...thanks for the tip!

I get that a lot when people first see them. It really is amazing.


glenn654 02-03-2009 08:58 PM

Hey Pete....instead of the mirrored plexi could you just polish the aluminum mounting plates?

Glenn Wilkinson

petehowell 02-03-2009 09:07 PM

You Could.....
 
But it might cause some issues with isolating the tops of the lux stars. The AL plate is on the bottom and serves as a heat sink, the plexi on top is cover and holds stuff in place. You could use AL on top, but you would need to insulate the connections on the stars from the top AL plate.

The mirrored plexi is cheap and easy to use, but what the heck, experiment - let us know what you find!

glenn654 02-03-2009 09:37 PM

Originally I didn't fully understand the need for the mirrored plexi but now have seen the LED!

Thanks Buddy

Glenn

Boxcars 02-17-2009 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehowell (Post 282909)
This has been questioned before - and rightly so. I'm not sure what to say except that it works and it really works well. The LEDs are current driven vs voltage driven - that might have something to do with it.

Maybe one of our EE's on the boards can answer this.

Not an EE...but the tech data sheet helps to explain. Scroll to p. 11 and 12, there are charts which show Forward Voltage vs. Forward Current, and then Forward Current vs. Normalized Luminous Flux. So you can see how much they would be dimmed by less than normal current caused by less than full voltage.

Boxcars 02-17-2009 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehowell (Post 279156)
Hello - I've been gettting quite a few PMs asking about the materials used to make the LED nav lights. Here is the scoop:

Mirrored Plexi can be found here: link

Say, how much of the plexi should I order? I'm at work and can't measure the wingtip.
Thanks!

craigvince 02-17-2009 11:41 AM

I bought 1sq ft. I'd recommend 2, though. If I remember correctly, there wasn't much difference price-wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxcars (Post 300247)
Say, how much of the plexi should I order? I'm at work and can't measure the wingtip.
Thanks!


RVbySDI 02-23-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehowell (Post 279156)
Hello - I've been gettting quite a few PMs asking about the materials used to make the LED nav lights. Here is the scoop:

Here are the resistors you need: link

here are the Green LEDS: (use cyan, not green) link

here are the Red LEDs: link

The luxeons should be mounted to an AL sheet with heat conducting, but electrically insulating compound: link

Mirrored Plexi can be found here: link

Here is the schematic:




More construction pics here

Questions:

Do they meet the FARs? - No idea - but they are crazy bright

Do they get too hot? - Mine have not - I run them whenever I fly - no issues in almost 400 hrs - the resistor tends to underdrive the LEDs. The resistor gets warm, but not hot.

Total cost? - LED prices seem to vary a bunch - I have about $60-$70 in both sides of mine.

My standard 1 beer fee applies - payable in the upper midwest (during the summer)........

Pete,
I have ordered the parts to roll my own LED lights from your list on this post. I should receive these parts soon and will be starting on them when they arrive. I am interested in LED strobes also. Do you have any ideas on being able to make our own LED strobes? I would like to be able to avoid dealing with shielded cable and radio interference issues with traditional strobe power supplies. Any information you may have is appreciated.

Steve

petehowell 02-23-2009 05:37 PM

No Strobe Info
 
Sorry Steve,

I don't have any info on LED strobes. I run regular strobes and do not have any noise from them. I might just be lucky.

rleffler 02-23-2009 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVbySDI (Post 302320)
Pete,
I am interested in LED strobes also. Do you have any ideas on being able to make our own LED strobes?
Steve


Steve,

I have the same interest. I've been looking at the BuckPuck drivers. (Datasheet here) and available from AeroElectric (here). If you look towards the bottom of the data sheet, there is an interface to facilitate strobing the LEDs. All that is is needed is a circuit to generate 5v to initiate turning the LEDs on in a standard strobe flash pattern.

Perhaps there is an EE on VAF that may want contribute with a simple circuit to handle this function? This circuit in conjunction with Bob Nuckolls mods to minimize RF may be a solution. You would have to use the model of the BuckPuck that allows external control, which isn't the version that Bob supplies.

bob

FrankK90989 02-24-2009 06:26 AM

I used a Power Puck, 4 Luxeon stars per side. From Led Supply.
No caps, No noise, No problems, Just lucky?

RVbySDI 02-24-2009 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankK90989 (Post 302500)
I used a Power Puck, 4 Luxeon stars per side. From Led Supply.
No caps, No noise, No problems, Just lucky?

Do you have any pics of this setup? Are you saying the "Power Puck" came from Led Supply or did everything come from there?

RVbySDI 03-02-2009 02:09 PM

Bumping post!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankK90989 (Post 302500)
I used a Power Puck, 4 Luxeon stars per side. From Led Supply.
No caps, No noise, No problems, Just lucky?

I am bumping this post up again hoping you or others may see it and reply.

Frank - Can you tell me the model number and voltage used for the Buck Puck you used for your setup? I am looking at the 3023-D-N-1000 in each wing tip. Are these similar to what you used? Did you just feed a 12V power to the puck or were there any other wiring/circuit requirements? I have several questions about the wiring of these. If you or anyone else may be able to discuss this please post here or PM me.

Thanks,
Steve

FrankK90989 03-02-2009 05:10 PM

Sorry Steve,
Must be sleeping at the switch??
Every thing was ordered 11/19/07 from LED supply, Might be a little dated?
Power puck is 700 MA LED drive module, code is 02008B-700. And the stars are K2 star low current 4 red, 4 cyan, I used green but current wisdom is that cyan is the better color.
They are wired in series, grounded locally. The Power puck is mounted to the last tip rib.
ymmv.

RVbySDI 03-03-2009 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankK90989 (Post 304644)
Sorry Steve,
Must be sleeping at the switch??
Every thing was ordered 11/19/07 from LED supply, Might be a little dated?
Power puck is 700 MA LED drive module, code is 02008B-700. And the stars are K2 star low current 4 red, 4 cyan, I used green but current wisdom is that cyan is the better color.
They are wired in series, grounded locally. The Power puck is mounted to the last tip rib.
ymmv.

Frank,
Thanks for the info. I am a little confused though.

I have read Pete Howell's post on building the nav lights and had plans to do so according to his parts list. I have ordered everything Pete had listed on his post above and am working on the installation of those lights now. His list did not call for any Power Puck for that setup.

Your list of items sounds very familiar to Pete's list of items except for the Power Puck. Is your setup for Nav lights or for Strobes?

If I set my nav lights up as Pete suggests I was hopeful to setup a separate system for LED strobes in the same location in the wingtips using white LED's. From what I can read on the description of the Power Puck it is supposed to be able to strobe the LED's but I am not sure if all I have to do is wire 12V power to the puck and it has a switch or something to turn on the strobe functionality or if there is some type of circuit design needed before the power feeds into the puck.

Any chance of seeing a pic of your setup?

rleffler 03-03-2009 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVbySDI (Post 304850)
Frank,
From what I can read on the description of the Power Puck it is supposed to be able to strobe the LED's but I am not sure if all I have to do is wire 12V power to the puck and it has a switch or something to turn on the strobe functionality or if there is some type of circuit design needed before the power feeds into the puck.


Steve,

There is a version of the PowerPuck that allows external control. However, the strobe capability is not a part of the PowerPuck. You have to add a 5v triggering circuit for the strobe timing.

While there has been [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']success [/font]with those not using the PowerPuck, I believe the PowerPuck is a more elegant solution. Is it better, probably. How much better, you'll have to make that determination.

Also, Bob Nuckolls has designed some additional filters to guarantee that there is minimal RF interference. You read more on his web site.

bob


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