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-   -   Poll On Fuel Used; 100LL, Mogas, Cargas, Or mixture (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=29962)

AZtailwind 05-15-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 223316)
To save some money, I asked my FBO to sell me 350 gallons of 100LL and what kind of fixed price can you give me?

,

Steve- So what was the percent discount?- Something to try here also-

Steve 05-16-2008 06:57 AM

$$$ saved
 
Brad,
The current prices at KOGD are $5.15 from the truck and $4.79 at the self serve. I locked in at $4.95. I bought fuel from the self serve last night and have not yet tapped into my 350 gal stash. The FBO owner assures me the price is going up another $.25/gal after the weekend.

Steve

N1593Y 05-16-2008 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingtime (Post 223277)
That sounds great to me. How did you find that out and where can I learn more about this "law"?

>...

JHines pointed out one of the docs. Here are some more that were passed along to me by Randy Hansen at EAA:

http://iflyit.net/index.php?topic=9.0

EAA knew that there would be push back from airports and FBOs who would not want fuel competition when the STCs were approved years ago, so they made sure that they had their ducks in a row with FAA when the STCs came out, otherwise they knew they would never sell any of them if people couldn't get mogas to their airplanes.

Of course this has all become rather moot west of the Rockies where we have no airports with mogas service; we were all self fueling. Now that CA has put ethanol in all of their gasoline with no law and no exceptions and Oregon is implementing a mandatory E10 law and Washington is implementing a partial mandatory E10 law, self fueling is rapidly disappearing and thousands of STCs have been rendered worthless. So far AOPA and EAA could care less.

leeschaumberg 05-16-2008 01:51 PM

Saving Money on Fuel
 
Car gasoline (MoGas) can freeze because the alcohol will bring in water. Last time I checked (Today) the temperature at altitude was below freezing. Some people spend thousands of hours building a plane then run a freezeable fuel crash and burn and kill themselfs. I don't know what other people think but I think this is stupid!

tmbg 05-16-2008 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeschaumberg (Post 223589)
Car gasoline (MoGas) can freeze because the alcohol will bring in water. Last time I checked (Today) the temperature at altitude was below freezing. Some people spend thousands of hours building a plane then run a freezeable fuel crash and burn and kill themselfs. I don't know what other people think but I think this is stupid!

Maybe they won't burn because the fuel is frozen! :rolleyes:

bkilby 05-16-2008 02:19 PM

If we are going to crash and die due to autogas freezing, or expanding, or vapor locking, or exploding, or losing octane levels after a week, or whatever else it is that people think it does.. why do STC's exist for some certified airplanes???

JHines 05-16-2008 03:03 PM

All the STCs specify no-alcohol MOGAS. Water is soluble in alcohol but not in gasoline.

tmbg 05-16-2008 03:08 PM

What I've been really curious about is what happens if you run car gas with 10% ethanol that happens to have entrained water through a water separating filter.

I imagine the filter removes the entrained water. I'd LOVE to be able to think that the alcohol is bound to the water tightly enough that the alcohol comes out with it, but I don't think science will support me in that.



I need to do some empirical analysis :D

airguy 05-16-2008 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHines (Post 223620)
All the STCs specify no-alcohol MOGAS. Water is soluble in alcohol but not in gasoline.

Not true.

Water is MORE soluble in alcohol than gasoline. Gasoline will hold a certain amount of water, just not much.

airguy 05-16-2008 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmbg (Post 223623)
What I've been really curious about is what happens if you run car gas with 10% ethanol that happens to have entrained water through a water separating filter.

I imagine the filter removes the entrained water. I'd LOVE to be able to think that the alcohol is bound to the water tightly enough that the alcohol comes out with it, but I don't think science will support me in that.



I need to do some empirical analysis :D

It will, to an extent.

Just look at the (I believe EAA?) test for finding alcohol content - I'm referring to the test that has you put 1 part water with 9 parts gasoline, shake it and let it settle, and then read the level of "water" again. If it increased (by pulling some of the alcohol out of the fuel into solution in the water), then the fuel contains alcohol. Now reverse that reasoning - if the water pulled the alcohol out, then the remaining fuel contains LESS alcohol now than it did before. Of course, you've also completely hydrated the gasoline by saturating it with as much water as it will hold in solution - which in the end is going to cause MORE problems than getting rid of all the alcohol will solve.

If you've got ethanol-mix fuel with some water in it that is COMPLETELY DISSOLVED at it's current temperature and pressure, and you run it through a water separation filter, nothing happens because the water is completely dissolved. Now change the temperature and pressure after that point, and all bets are off. If you've got enough water in the fuel that it has already started to separate out, then yes the separation filter will grab it.


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