Rotaries, and a vent.
 

Is there a troll free forum where good dialog and information exists about rotaries? I am looking for specific wet weights FFW of the 13B packages.

Here's the vent part:

WARNING: if you are loosening up your typing fingers to reply with anything other than what I just asked... save your energy. I DON'T CARE how superior the traditional air cooled engine you prefer is. I also know what I am in for IF *I* DECIDE to choose an alternative.

I am NOT looking for cheaper, faster, lighter, higher resale, smoother and more efficient... Nor is anyone telling me an alternative engine will give me all these things. A winner in one or two of these categories may just be enough for me to CHOOSE an alternative.

This site is a Godsend of information on building a Vans aircraft and it is the ONLY reason I chose the RV7a over a Lancair Legacy FG, but I'm really tired of reading stuff like "Are liquid cooled Aircraft Engines Possible"?

I actually thought the author just might be ignorant (not meant as an insult) about liquid cooling (past and present), but it didn't take long to realize there was an agenda there.

I also initially thought that there was a forum for that junk --> "Never Ending Debates"... ???

Yeah, Yeah... I know the old guard will say they are just trying to ensure that newbs are fully informed about the potential "issues" with alternatives. Bull! Will the junk stop if there is a polite and neutral sticky up here warning us that alternative engines are for the more advanced builder who understands what they are getting into?? Then maybe the junk can be moved to the debate forum???

Anyhow, some great sources of information on alternative engines are being driven into silence because of constant banter from a few individuals... There are also some great sources who will not participate here anymore. What a shame.

I'm sorry to rant like this. I really learn from the things that Ross, Todd, DanH, and others post... but there are about 5 users who shall remain nameless that even a newbie like me can see right through. Their only goal is to stir the pot. Maybe they consider the propulsion that their BS and hot air could create as some form of alternative engine...

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I am not going with a taildragger and may not go with a lycoming... That's 1 small strike and 1 BIG strike against me with a certain crowd here... That's why I prefer to lurk.

Now, if you still have the need to RESPECTFULLY question me or my desire to explore the option of an alternative engine, please do it with a civilized PM and we can chat.

Anyhow, where is the fountain of collective knowledge on rotaries that drive a non-metal prop via a PSRU??

Thanks!

DR

So, tell us how you really feel.

Well said, I also get tired of some of the childish backbiting and snide comments on here.

Occasionally I do something about it even.

Your comment about the knowledge gained from Ross, Todd, Dan and others is right on target. Another good source of info is George/GMCJET, and hopefully people find my contributions helpfull occasionally.

Personally, I love the Wankle/Mazda engine. I had a slightly heated up 13b in a old RX7, originally came with a 12a. I visited Lou Ross a couple of times to look at his PSRU for the engine, had thoughts of designing a plane behind one. I was thinking along the lines of up-scaling an aerobatic platform from the radio control world, with the small frontal profile of the Mazda/Ross, and composite construction, ----------------oh well, maybe in my next life.

Hopefully those who join in here will keep it to business.

I tried, really I tried...........

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/

Tracy has the most informative site out there as far as real world experience and a description of what to expect and how to accomplish what you want.

Very few rotary experts on this forum....a number of rotary advocates, but based on your opening post, I would suggest that RWS would be your best bet for real information.

Tracy is probably the best source for rotary knowledge. He is also the one who built my engine controller. He has been flying his plane for quite awhile now.

The Flyrotary list is the best place to go for the info you need. Tracy participate's regularly on that list.

http://www.flyrotary.com/

Subscribe here- http://lancaironline.net/lists/

The Flyrotary list is an email list, but very active. There's several different "schools" inside the rotary world as well...Paul Lamar, Dave Atkins, and Tracy Crook all have different views as to what works best. Paul has a list as well, but it's not as active as the Flyrotary list. http://www.rotaryeng.net/

Hope that helps, if you haven't already been to those sites...:)

Tracy Crook has had far more success and experience in this field than the others mentioned here and he is respected by almost everyone. Paul Lamar has never flown one of his creations so I consider his views theoretical at best and sometimes complete nonsense.

Another super savvy Wankel head is Paul Yaw- one of the smartest engine guys I know. http://www.yawpower.com/

Your concise summation of the alt engine debate had me smiling. Thanks.:)

Ross,
Thanks for the Yawpower site- it IS very good.

I agree with the earlier posts- the best basic data comes from Tracy Crook's site- it is a must read and is the best source for many parts that you will need. Be sure to buy Tracy's booklet "Aviators guide to Mazda Rotary conversion".

Tracy's strength is that he is practical and experienced, but that practicality is possibly also his weakness. My concern with Tracy's approach is that he is a cheapskate! :rolleyes: He has documented a bunch of triumphs and a few missteps over time, but, he presents his experiences "right from the hip" that we can all learn from. He and Laura are really nice people and great to work with- a lot like Van. Tracy has advanced the Rotary aircraft knowledge base more than anyone else to date.

I personally think that Paul Lamar has a better technical grip on cooling, intake, and engine mount design than Tracy- you should at least be familiar with both sources before you make choices. PL's site is particularly good for historical and test data concerning rotaries, but he does occasionally get sidetracked into interesting theory not applicable to our needs. Paul has not personally flown with a rotary, but many others have who contribute regularly to his newsletter daily. From what Ive seen, PL's list is a bit more active than Tracy's, but not always as applicable. PL knows rotaries and aerodynamics- he references and relies heavily on technical test data, often from Mazda and NASA, far more than Tracy does.

There are a lot of information sources from various RX7/8 auto enthusiasts that pertain largely to racing. Id also recommend checking out the Mazdatrix website.

ANOTHER GOOD SOURCE
 

DR,
You might want to check the Mistral site. www.mistralengines.com You might have to poke around a bit but they have a good (and very honest) graph of the WT/HP of various rotaries and Lyc or Conti weights. Their numbers include the weight of their own PSRU (an excellent one BTW) at 47 pounds. The 13B compares well with an IO-360. At or around 200 HP. The Mistral rotary uses the standard iron housings in the comparisons. Future rotaries using aluminum side plates and housings will be about 20 pounds lighter. The 20B compares very favorably with the O and IO-540's coming in about 20-40 pounds lighter for the same HP. If you want to know for sure I've got a 20B sitting on a stand in my shop.
Bill Jepson
PS. the weights chart in under general info on the site. Click on "technology" then click on the picture of the G190 engine headed "general overview" The chart is about 1/2 way down on the right.

There is some stuff of interest on PL's site but when it comes to talking about this subject and doing it, these two aspects are worlds apart.

PL's abrasive personality and closed minded, know it all attitude turned me off him years ago as it has many others flying Wankels.

By all means look at any info out there you can but take the theoretical stuff with a grain of salt. The stuff that is flying successfully is far more useful and important IMO.

Holy Cow
 

Wow, I give it a little time... and whaddayaknow!

Excellent posts! I have found a couple of those sites about the rotaries, but there were I few that I had not stumbled across.. I will spend some time soaking them in!

Also, you have no idea how nice it is to NOT see posts lambasting my search for info.... I truly appreciate that.

RotaryRV10 - Do you have the Mistral product??

Also, why don't some of you really smart guys design us a bulletproof PSRU??? I'll sign a release of liability and pitch in some cash... (you listening Ross and DanH??)

Thanks!

DR